Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[moonlessnight]

I am fairly sure a 2:30pm mtg time was planned for some innocuous purpose. If they hadn't been able to get there, no biggie - they probably figured they'd figure it out another time. As pre-teens have to be able to do, I think they made an arrangement to be there at 2:30 and did what they could to get there, knowing they would be subject to other people's schedules and permission. If they hadn't been able to, they would not have felt it was a big deal since they had no idea what was waiting for them.

It is also possible Kelsie was going to go with them before she got scheduled to work, and in that case there would have been a definite plan. She may or may not have been aware of who else knew or had planned to be there.

How could it be pre-planned if the girls didn't even know they were going till nearly 1.30. Or do you mean a random victim was planned?

 

[moonlessnight]

I don't know but I think the RSO search is how they came up with the first sketch. MOO

I want to ask a question about RSO's. Early on LE said they checked all CaCo RSO's to rule them out. Does anyone know if neighbouring counties were also checked? I am thinking specifically of Tippecanoe, as Lafayette appears to have a high number of offenders. Anyone remember which counties they checked?

Also, am wondering if they also would have checked early releases too. There was a cold case recently solved when LE reviewed the case and discovered that two guys had been ruled out as being in jail, when in actual fact they were released early that morning and had committed the murder. Can't remember the actual case now but I bet someone will. Anyway, it just occurred to me that something similar could have happened here perhaps. Just a random speculation.

 

[ACE422]

I can't see schizophrenia or delusional disorders being a factor here in this case although I don't work in the field. Aren't those suffering from schizophrenia really more of a threat to themselves than to others?

Most of the time, yes, they are a greater danger to themselves . But sometimes they do harm others. I used to work with a women whom killed her three children to “save” them from demons she believed were after them. When she was stable, you would have had no idea she was capable of this. It was heartbreaking. If they are in a bad enough place, they can’t tell what is reality and what is delusion.
However, typically if something like this was the case, they would not “hide” it from other people, they would talk about it and assume that everyone else was seeing the same reality they were seeing.
I don’t get the feeling that the murderer was experiencing psychosis. I think there would have been more evidence and people who had reported bizarre behavior of that were the case. MOO

 

[somequestions]

In a movie from 2004 called Flight of the Phoenix, Kirk Jones character, Jeremy decides that he can probably walk to the nearest town 200 miles away in the Gobi Desert to get help. There are a few points made against doing this. One of those points is made by Dennis Quaid's character, Captain Townes who asks if Jeremy is right-handed. Jeremy is right-handed. Captain Townes tells Jeremy that means his right foot is more developed than his left foot and he would take a longer step with it. He explains that Jeremy would be walking in a left-handed circle.

In the video of the bridge guy, what I was looking for was something the man might do unconsciously. The Monon High Bridge has gaps in the boards from being worn down. Because the video of the bridge guy walking is so short, I could not come to any type of determination about which foot is his dominant foot.

I thought looking for something the killer might do unconsciously might lead to a clue about that person, like the way Abigail Williams holds a volleyball when she took her sports picture. In both instances I would only be able to say that I think the person is probably left-handed because I do not know for sure, and there are many good arguments that could suggest otherwise.

As for the 2004 movie, Flight of the Phoenix, I had never heard that information before so I wondered if it is true?

 

[Charlot123]

I am thinking that there may be many red herrings in the case.

Coming back to the idea of the girls being targeted specifically, (And not their older siblings, as I posted earlier).

The chance of a 13-14 year old using Tor browser - for whatever reason, “because teenagers” - is high.

The chance of a pedophile using it is very high.

Also - the Midwestern accent. As the person who grew up in different areas, I know that one can get rid of “old dialects”, but they would pop up as soon as you move back. So someone who speaks with Midwestern dialect when in Midwest, on tape, in this case, might not use the same manner if he moves to the NW or NE parts of the country.

And the main thing - why is the person familiar with the place?

He might have seen it before. Grew up, visited, traveled by. Maybe came back once or twice to check how much has changed (answer: nothing). But there are people who can get a lot of information from Google maps. Not all of us - I am not like it, but some people are amazingly 3-dimensional.

MOD: anyone but me wondering if it was a red herring, too? This “something” hinting at the person being religious that DC is using...how much can we trust it? I assume that anyone who read his Bible as a child could feign religiosity. I don’t know any details of the story, but I don’t get any strong religious vibe. A religious person would attack very different people and places. How would this brutal murder of 2 girls testify to a person’s faith?

So I don’t know where he lives, whom he targets, he probably planned it well, and he made other plans at other places, too. Probably, remote, rural, with other curious teenager.

Lastly - I think it is hardly likely, but if the “unaccounted” DNA is female, it should not be ruled out, either.

 

[Charlot123]

Hi Maplesyrup,

IIRC, the GPS feature in Snapchat was not available in February of 2017. (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I know it was discussed a long time ago.)



Hi, Charlot123,

RBBM

Farmers know technology.
JMO

~RIP M+J

Sorry, what a horrible mistake I made. Of course they do. I was thinking mostly of malware, Tor browser and computer-related work. Just worded it wrong. Sorry.

 

[Charlot123]

Schizophrenia does pose a higher risk to others. BG is probably not schizophrenic bc I believe this was pre-planned. But he likely has distorted thoughts that could border on paranoia and/or delusions (without hallucination), as in NPD/APD.

What you wanted to say is that he was not disorganized during the crime, right? And afterwards, neither. I agree.

 

[Nadal]

The chance of a 13-14 year old using Tor browser - for whatever reason, “because teenagers” - is high.

Abby and Libby didn't have to be using it, he could have been but they weren't. You can access certain social media sites with TOR, others block it but for speculaltions sake it could've been one of the ones that's not blocked. I think it's highly unlikely Abby and Libby were using TOR, who knows though.

 

[Charlot123]

Agreed, i think he was planning it for ages. I think he's likely not from Delphi or even Indiana but he either stayed there as a kid or had a relative who he visited, but he's probably not had that connection in 10+ years which is why no one remembers him (this and most of this post is an assumption of course). He probably watches and reads a lot about murders and has went to lengths as best as he can to make this a tough case to solve, doing the attack in an area he knows well but no longer has a connection to would be a good move in that regard. He's probably a paedophile who watches a lot of child and maybe even has convictions for it but not in Indiana, in Chicago or wherever he's from and through that he uses something like TOR and has been for a long time meaning he knows what he's doing with it, using TOR he stalked various Delphi childrens Social Media which makes it difficult to track him down especially if he didn't engage any of them then he's got the perfect opportunity with Abby and Libby going to the trail. That or he knew of the trail when he previously lived there and he knew children often went there (i know it's been said children don't often go there but i've heard the opposite too, plus maybe they did 10+ years ago when he was a kid) so he went and lucked out.

Of course this is full of assumptions and is based on so little, i've changed my mind so much on this case and any release of information could easily make me do a 180. That's just the type of story that satisfies all my questions best right now.

Agree. I think he collected them. I also have the feeling that he despises the police that could not solve the cases, but can feel almost sorry for some of the victims he does not know or does not in any way identify with. (That would not be his victims).

 

[Charlot123]

Abby and Libby didn't have to be using it, he could have been but they weren't. You can access certain social media sites with TOR, others block it but for speculaltions sake it could've been one of the ones that's not blocked. I think it's highly unlikely Abby and Libby were using TOR, who knows though.

For the purposes of chatting, dating or making videos - no. But both had interest in criminology, Libby took classes. What about learning purposes? Curiosity?

 

[Nadal]

For the purposes of chatting, dating or making videos - no. But both had interest in criminology, Libby took classes. What about learning purposes? Curiosity?

They could have been, i was only pointing out that they both (Abby and Libby + BG) didn't have to be using TOR to communicate or view each others Social Media because your post sort of read like you were saying that. Probably just my bad reading comprehension though lol.

I don't know if many young kids use TOR but if they had frequented sites like Reddit or 4Chan or even on youtube through "dark/deep web videos" they may have heard of it and got curious. I could imagine it scaring them though thinking they'd accidentally stumble onto child or something (that's not how it works at all) and get into trouble, they were young kids after all.

 

[susiQ]

I want to ask a question about RSO's. Early on LE said they checked all CaCo RSO's to rule them out. Does anyone know if neighbouring counties were also checked? I am thinking specifically of Tippecanoe, as Lafayette appears to have a high number of offenders. Anyone remember which counties they checked?

Also, am wondering if they also would have checked early releases too. There was a cold case recently solved when LE reviewed the case and discovered that two guys had been ruled out as being in jail, when in actual fact they were released early that morning and had committed the murder. Can't remember the actual case now but I bet someone will. Anyway, it just occurred to me that something similar could have happened here perhaps. Just a random speculation.

Maybe not just RSO's. Maybe someone that ended up in jail because someone snitched on him and he got out early.

Of note, I noticed with one particular individual that MyCase still had him in detention when the murders occurred, but family clearly stated he was "around", either at work or on "vacation." Either someone is lying or fudging the truth or MyCase doesn't update their site when an offender is released early. MOO

 

[Nadal]

Maybe not just RSO's. Maybe someone that ended up in jail because someone snitched on him and he got out early.

Of note, I noticed with one particular individual that MyCase still had him in detention when the murders occurred, but family clearly stated he was "around", either at work or on "vacation." Either someone is lying or fudging the truth or MyCase doesn't update their site when an offender is released early. MOO

Check on BOP's Inmate Locator if you haven't, think that's more accurate.

 

[Charlot123]

In a movie from 2004 called Flight of the Phoenix, Kirk Jones character, Jeremy decides that he can probably walk to the nearest town 200 miles away in the Gobi Desert to get help. There are a few points made against doing this. One of those points is made by Dennis Quaid's character, Captain Townes who asks if Jeremy is right-handed. Jeremy is right-handed. Captain Townes tells Jeremy that means his right foot is more developed than his left foot and he would take a longer step with it. He explains that Jeremy would be walking in a left-handed circle.

In the video of the bridge guy, what I was looking for was something the man might do unconsciously. The Monon High Bridge has gaps in the boards from being worn down. Because the video of the bridge guy walking is so short, I could not come to any type of determination about which foot is his dominant foot.

I thought looking for something the killer might do unconsciously might lead to a clue about that person, like the way Abigail Williams holds a volleyball when she took her sports picture. In both instances I would only be able to say that I think the person is probably left-handed because I do not know for sure, and there are many good arguments that could suggest otherwise.

As for the 2004 movie, Flight of the Phoenix, I had never heard that information before so I wondered if it is true?

I don’t know his handedness, but I don’t think that this should be a limiting factor. Height could. He is probably not over 6 feet, and probably, less. But lots of other things (accent, tone of voice, etc) people should not use as limiting because they are not 100% reliable.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Sorry, what a horrible mistake I made. Of course they do. I was thinking mostly of malware, Tor browser and computer-related work. Just worded it wrong. Sorry.

Hi Charlot123,

No worries! I just didn’t want that to grow feet and run as “fact”. You bring a lot of good ideas to this board!

~RIP M+J

 

[BNA]

How would this brutal murder of 2 girls testify to a person’s faith?

If he was of a mind that the girls were "sinners."

 

[MJPeony]

I’m aware of only some of various WS’ers POI’s, but I know there is frequent speculation that these murders were religious in some way (or connected to religion somehow). Aside from DC’s comments on The Shack, I’m curious as to what aspects some of you are using to draw the inference of a religious tinged murder? In other words, was there a theory about this before the April presser or has it only come about for some since that presser?

MOO

 

[400bones]

For the purposes of chatting, dating or making videos - no. But both had interest in criminology, Libby took classes. What about learning purposes? Curiosity?

Did I miss something? Is there reason to believe either of the girls accessed the "dark web" or used Tor? I've done a cursory search but didn't see anything - so please excuse me and disregard the rest of my comment if there is any evidence of this (and please direct me to it!)
I really, really doubt either of them were on the deep/dark web in the capacity that we think of it as (recall that anything not found on a search engine is technically part of the deep web). Admittedly, I'm not aware if either of them had personal laptops that went unchecked by guardians, but as a former 13/14 year old girl interested in the dark web, I had three main deterrents: 1) getting in trouble with my parents 2) getting in trouble with the police 3) seeing something traumatizing 4) being hacked/stalked because I'm not a tech expert. I'd imagine any other girl in this day and age would have the same fears.
Not to mention all of the steps and precautions one would have to take in order to set up and facilitate the use of it safely... it just doesn't seem like something two AFAIK well behaved girls would do.
I also imagine LE would have discovered this in searches of electronics.

 

[IceIce9]

Hi, Charlot123,

RBBM

Farmers know technology.
JMO

~RIP M+J[/QUOTE]

Agree, farmers know technology.

Anyone who hasn’t seen the inside of a tractor or farm machinery might not be aware of just how much farmers use technology. Self driving tractors were around before self driving cars were ever discussed. And farmers use GPS to guide so the rows of corn, beans, etc are straight.

 

[Nadal]

There's no evidence they were on TOR. I suggested (i'm sure plenty did before me i only mean recently) BG could have used TOR and Charlot123 suggested Abby and Libby could have been. I agree they most likely weren't for the reasons you said.

TOR is not easy to use either, the website URL's are usually a lot of numbers then , you would need to know were to look to find websites, can't see two girls their age going through all of that.