Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[400bones]

There's no evidence they were on TOR. I suggested (i'm sure plenty did before me i only mean recently) BG could have used TOR and Charlot123 suggested Abby and Libby could have been. I agree they most likely weren't for the reasons you said.

TOR is not easy to use either, the website URL's are usually a lot of numbers then , you would need to know were to look to find websites, can't see two girls their age going through all of that.

Thank you for clarifying!

 

[margarita25]

Me neither. For one, the diagnostic principles may change again, as more is known about the brain, and also, five psychiatrists might disagree on the diagnosis of this guy, based on their personal experience. Also, meth can still be a factor in his mental state. That he is probably “not totally there” and has severe anger issues, we might agree, but he also works very well and is not disorganized under stress. He was able to kill fast and escape unnoticed. And this is very interesting. Supposedly, he had a bad day, and was hearing voices. What kind of job would you still be able to do? Probably the one that is routine for you...

If there is anyone with whom he shared the knowledge of the crime, as DC has said, I can bet it was not his shrink.

This reminds about something our Late Great @Foxfire mentioned to me sometime. The MacDonald Triangle...



ETA: omg I’m gonna cry

“Margarita25, congrats on your first image map.. Great job! M25, if your first image map had a caption; The MacDonald Triad, Triad of Sociopathy, or simply Triad would be fitting, imo.. The triangle shape is likely only coincidence, but you never know. Psychopaths have a reason for everything they say and everything they do..imo..*

The Macdonald triad (also known as the triad of sociopathy or the homicidal triad... J.M. Macdonald in "The Threat to Kill", a 1963 paper in the American Journal of Psychiatry.
Macdonald triad - Wikipedia

—-

There it is Foxy:

“Psychopaths have a reason for everything they say and everything they do..imo...”

Source link:
CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #2

 

[watcher9]

I’m aware of only some of various WS’ers POI’s, but I know there is frequent speculation that these murders were religious in some way (or connected to religion somehow). Aside from DC’s comments on The Shack, I’m curious as to what aspects some of you are using to draw the inference of a religious tinged murder? In other words, was there a theory about this before the April presser or has it only come about for some since that presser?

MOO

I apparently watched The Shack the same night Carter did and was surprised when he began talking about it in the press conference right afterwards.

Long story short -
There was a family with three children living a happy life. On a camping trip the father went to the aid of the two older kids when he saw them having trouble in the water and left the small girl playing alone at the table by their camper. When they got back to the camper, she had disappeared. Frantic searching took place. Later her dress and blood was found in an old cabin or shack by police but her body was never found. The family lived in their own guilt at different stages. This is where it begins getting pretty deep. In the end though, the father realizes he could not pass judgement on himself or the killer. He had to forgive himself and the killer. Then he was able to receive some peace.

The only connection with the murder of the girls I could see was that Carter had to release some of his anger and frustration of having to restart the whole investigation as it was tearing him up inside. Nothing about the movie would apply except maybe it being possibly a serial killer.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Hi Maplesyrup,

IIRC, the GPS feature in Snapchat was not available in February of 2017. (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I know it was discussed a long time ago.)



Hi, Charlot123,

RBBM

Farmers know technology.
JMO

~RIP M+J

The mapping feature in Snapchat wasn’t available when the murders occurred.

 

[scruffydog]

I apparently watched The Shack the same night Carter did and was surprised when he began talking about it in the press conference right afterwards.

Long story short -
There was a family with three children living a happy life. On a camping trip the father went to the aid of the two older kids when he saw them having trouble in the water and left the small girl playing alone at the table by their camper. When they got back to the camper, she had disappeared. Frantic searching took place. Later her dress and blood was found in an old cabin or shack by police but her body was never found. The family lived in their own guilt at different stages. This is where it begins getting pretty deep. In the end though, the father realizes he could not pass judgement on himself or the killer. He had to forgive himself and the killer. Then he was able to receive some peace.

The only connection with the murder of the girls I could see was that Carter had to release some of his anger and frustration of having to restart the whole investigation as it was tearing him up inside. Nothing about the movie would apply except maybe it being possibly a serial killer.

I personally have never believed that religion has anything to do with these murders. I think that Carter had recently seen the movie, and to him it somehow correlated with parts of the murders-just the kidnapping and death of a young girl more or less. if anything, I think that it would be his personal religious beliefs that came into play in the press conference....now I could be horribly wrong, and maybe the murder scene has religious aspects to it-but my feeling is that it does not.
I also don't believe that the killer/killers are in any way from a prominent family in the community. To me-that is really reaching. I don't believe that LE has really has a strong suspect in mind. And this 'one piece of evidence' they need, is exactly what you need to solve every case. I'm pretty sick of hearing that!!

 

[Cutiekitty]

I personally have never believed that religion has anything to do with these murders. I think that Carter had recently seen the movie, and to him it somehow correlated with parts of the murders-just the kidnapping and death of a young girl more or less. if anything, I think that it would be his personal religious beliefs that came into play in the press conference....now I could be horribly wrong, and maybe the murder scene has religious aspects to it-but my feeling is that it does not.
I also don't believe that the killer/killers are in any way from a prominent family in the community. To me-that is really reaching. I don't believe that LE has really has a strong suspect in mind. And this 'one piece of evidence' they need, is exactly what you need to solve every case. I'm pretty sick of hearing that!!

I don’t think religion plays a big role in the case either. I think that the mention of the shack was deliberate and meant to generate a response from persons involved. I don’t think the persons involved are necessarily prominent in the community, but they are prominent in the case and I do think that LE has a specific suspect in mind. Been quiet for awhile and just felt like voicing my opinion - this seemed like the right spot. sorry for hijacking your post.

 

[BNA]

I apparently watched The Shack the same night Carter did and was surprised when he began talking about it in the press conference right afterwards.

Long story short -
There was a family with three children living a happy life. On a camping trip the father went to the aid of the two older kids when he saw them having trouble in the water and left the small girl playing alone at the table by their camper. When they got back to the camper, she had disappeared. Frantic searching took place. Later her dress and blood was found in an old cabin or shack by police but her body was never found. The family lived in their own guilt at different stages. This is where it begins getting pretty deep. In the end though, the father realizes he could not pass judgement on himself or the killer. He had to forgive himself and the killer. Then he was able to receive some peace.

The only connection with the murder of the girls I could see was that Carter had to release some of his anger and frustration of having to restart the whole investigation as it was tearing him up inside. Nothing about the movie would apply except maybe it being possibly a serial killer.

Or, possibly a plea for forgiveness?

 

[scruffydog]

Maybe the social media account BG was monitoring was his child's account?

I am wondering the same thing!

 

[Charlot123]

Did I miss something? Is there reason to believe either of the girls accessed the "dark web" or used Tor? I've done a cursory search but didn't see anything - so please excuse me and disregard the rest of my comment if there is any evidence of this (and please direct me to it!)
I really, really doubt either of them were on the deep/dark web in the capacity that we think of it as (recall that anything not found on a search engine is technically part of the deep web). Admittedly, I'm not aware if either of them had personal laptops that went unchecked by guardians, but as a former 13/14 year old girl interested in the dark web, I had three main deterrents: 1) getting in trouble with my parents 2) getting in trouble with the police 3) seeing something traumatizing 4) being hacked/stalked because I'm not a tech expert. I'd imagine any other girl in this day and age would have the same fears.
Not to mention all of the steps and precautions one would have to take in order to set up and facilitate the use of it safely... it just doesn't seem like something two AFAIK well behaved girls would do.
I also imagine LE would have discovered this in searches of electronics.

thanks for explaining

 

[tresir2012]

Did I miss something? Is there reason to believe either of the girls accessed the "dark web" or used Tor? I've done a cursory search but didn't see anything - so please excuse me and disregard the rest of my comment if there is any evidence of this (and please direct me to it!)
I really, really doubt either of them were on the deep/dark web in the capacity that we think of it as (recall that anything not found on a search engine is technically part of the deep web). Admittedly, I'm not aware if either of them had personal laptops that went unchecked by guardians, but as a former 13/14 year old girl interested in the dark web, I had three main deterrents: 1) getting in trouble with my parents 2) getting in trouble with the police 3) seeing something traumatizing 4) being hacked/stalked because I'm not a tech expert. I'd imagine any other girl in this day and age would have the same fears.
Not to mention all of the steps and precautions one would have to take in order to set up and facilitate the use of it safely... it just doesn't seem like something two AFAIK well behaved girls would do.
I also imagine LE would have discovered this in searches of electronics.

The conversation was more about predators using Tor, I believe, not the girls. However, one of the girls had Facebook and a boyfriend from another school both unknown to her mother at the time, so questioning SM is valid speculation really. (Source Renner interviews in media thread)

 

[tresir2012]

I am fairly sure a 2:30pm mtg time was planned for some innocuous purpose. If they hadn't been able to get there, no biggie - they probably figured they'd figure it out another time. As pre-teens have to be able to do, I think they made an arrangement to be there at 2:30 and did what they could to get there, knowing they would be subject to other people's schedules and permission. If they hadn't been able to, they would not have felt it was a big deal since they had no idea what was waiting for them.

It is also possible Kelsie was going to go with them before she got scheduled to work, and in that case there would have been a definite plan. She may or may not have been aware of who else knew or had planned to be there.

What makes you think they planned a 2.30 meeting with someone? Just curious. Did you get a look at their SM before it was closed down?

 

[book-thinker]

Momma_k
Thank you for giving us your understanding of how your small community is holding up after two beautiful young girls were murdered. I’ve always believed this murderer has strong ties to Delphi.

Two days ago I hiked the lower part of flatirons in Boulder, Colorado. There is
a section of the trail is extremely
steep and dangerous to cross, someone
with with knowledge and skill can cross over easily and quickly. A person
that hikes this trail many times in the past and has little fear.

This is where bridge guy comes in.
From the video, he has the skill and knowledge to cross that bridge at a quickly pace. He’s knows the area quite well.
Maybe in his younger years he use to party with friends or family in this area.

I feel LE needs the last bit of evidence to attach the dots in order to have a solid case for a arrest. This could be the reason for the last new conference by LE. The last dot needed.
Jmo
Book-thinker

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Not to mention all of the steps and precautions one would have to take in order to set up and facilitate the use of it safely... it just doesn't seem like something two AFAIK well behaved girls would do.
I also imagine LE would have discovered this in searches of electronics.

If LE discovered something like that, they never would announce it to the public, IMO.

The idea, that the girls may have been users of the dark net, I don't find so very outlandish. A math "expert" (so equipped with logical thinking), smart, interested in crime/forensics - who knows, whether one girl at least had been -innocently- curious for discovering, what is going on there "in the dark".

 

[susiQ]

Check on BOP's Inmate Locator if you haven't, think that's more accurate.

Silly question @Nadal, but what is BOP's Inmate Locator? Would you have the link? TIA!

 

[Cutiekitty]

What makes you think they planned a 2.30 meeting with someone? Just curious. Did you get a look at their SM before it was closed down?

Bbm - don’t know anything about the specific time, but they didn’t have to use SM and actually set something up. They could’ve just seen someone else post that they were going and decided they were going to try to go to without expressing their plans. My kids do this all of the time. Their friends post that they are at or going to some place (football games or the mall for example) and then the kiddos decide they want to go there too. They don’t necessarily discuss the plans with the person that posted. This tends to lead to spontaneous requests for me to drive them somewhere.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Silly question @Nadal, but what is BOP's Inmate Locator? Would you have the link? TIA!

Its the bureau of prisons I believe.

 

[Nadal]

Silly question @Nadal, but what is BOP's Inmate Locator? Would you have the link? TIA!

Yeah it's the Bureau of Prisons as Cutiekitty said. I used to use it for mafia members who were often released to halfway houses early and it would tell you. Inmate Locator

You only need to type in the first and last name btw then scroll down to the one that fits (assuming it's a common name) age/race/sex wise if you don't know what those are exactly.

 

[tresir2012]

Bbm - don’t know anything about the specific time, but they didn’t have to use SM and actually set something up. They could’ve just seen someone else post that they were going and decided they were going to try to go to without expressing their plans. My kids do this all of the time. Their friends post that they are at or going to some place (football games or the mall for example) and then the kiddos decide they want to go there too. They don’t necessarily discuss the plans with the person that posted. This tends to lead to spontaneous requests for me to drive them somewhere.

Yep I could see how that would have happened but not for a specific timed meeting IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

Yeah it's the Bureau of Prisons as Cutiekitty said. I used to use it for mafia members who were often released to halfway houses early and it would tell you. Inmate Locator

You only need to type in the first and last name btw then scroll down to the one that fits (assuming it's a common name) age/race/sex wise if you don't know what those are exactly.

Thanks very much for that. Does it work just for those in prison now or for all prisoners, including those released previously? The person I was looking for was not found and i guess he was released late 2018-2019 sometime.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Yep I could see how that would have happened but not for a specific timed meeting IMO.

I don’t know about the specific time either.