Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[margarita25]

Not a female minor, but Serial Killer Herbert Mullin shot and killed four male minors he encountered in the woods without a sexual motive. He was a paranoid schizophrenic which some people think BG is or something similar:

About a month later, on February 10, 1973, Mullin was wandering around Henry Cowell Redwoods State Park where he encountered four teenage boys camping illegally in the park. He walked over to them, engaged in a brief conversation and claimed to be a park ranger. He ordered them to leave because they were "polluting" the forest, but they refused. Mullin shot them fatally, and abandoned their bodies, which were not found until the next week.[3]

I also think it was SA and don't think he is paranoid schizophrenic or has any severe psychotic disease. But it can't be completely ruled out until we know more details.

Thank you for the response. Indeed nobody can rule anything out, that’s for sure. If there’s one thing I know here, it’s to “expect a twist”.

See my eta, I actually added something similar to your response.

 

[Nadal]

Thank you for the response. Indeed nobody can rule anything out, that’s for sure. If there’s one thing I know here, it’s to “expect a twist”.

See my eta, I actually added something similar to your response.

Cool. For the record the reason i included an instance with male minors when you asked for female ones (is well because it's the first thing that came to mind and i couldn't be bothered searching, but also..) is i think it's obvious had Mullins encountered female minors instead he wouldn't have sexually assaulted them because he didn't sexually assault any of his other female victims. It wasn't his MO, he had delusions that he thought he had to kill as many people as possible in a short time to prevent an earthquake from hitting San Francisco.

 

[Mike Britton]

True. And just because LE checked all CaCo RSO's doesn't mean there was a SA but it is an angle. There had to be some motive, which ATM is very elusive, without further info from LE. Do you think LE know the motive?

Yeah, I was wrong to imply it's an unworthy exercise to speculate. Unfortunately I'm becoming jaded and cynical from the idea-loops, all of which are valuable—and especially in hindsight, as I suspect this case will be solved partly due to websleuths.

 

[sunshineray]

If I did a documentary on Delphi Indiana and truly delivered some reality, I bet this thread would end.

So what are you saying? Are you saying your theory of the murders involves town corruption either in the judiciary, law enforcement or civil government? Every town has it's secrets. What exactly is your theory on who killed Abby and Libby...if you don't mind sharing it? TIA

 

[tresir2012]

Yeah, I was wrong to imply it's an unworthy exercise to speculate. Unfortunately I'm becoming jaded and cynical from the idea-loops, all of which are valuable—and especially in hindsight, as I suspect this case will be solved partly due to websleuths.

It is difficult speculating with no details. However LE will know the motive, if sexual, and the COD so they should be some steps ahead of us. At least the girls were found quickly, unlike Iowa where they don't know COD or whether there was a sexual motive. Margarita has asked if there are any cases of murdered young girls that weren't sexual, and I believe there are probably plenty where they do not know, like Iowa or other cases where decomposition makes it impossible to know.

 

[raja]

I'd be interested in hearing your take if you'd like to share.

Just out of curiosity if you do suspect someone, would you say that person resembles either of the sketches and if so which one. Just interested.

 

[margarita25]

Quick poll, WHEN BG is arrested, what degree of similarity do you think the new BG sketch will have to the actual perp? I’m going to say little to mediocre, moo jmo.

I still think he is much older than 18, moo. I think he is at leaaast 30s or 40s, JMO.

 

[gregjrichards]

Quick poll, WHEN BG is arrested, what degree of similarity do you think the new BG sketch will have to the actual perp? I’m going to say little to mediocre, moo jmo.

I still think he is much older than 18, moo. I think he is at leaaast 30s or 40s, JMO.

I feel the same @margarita25 I don’t have a lot of confidence in the new sketch’s accuracy in appearance to a real person but hopefully I’m wrong. He has probably changed his appearance quite a bit since that horrific day.

 

[Mike Britton]

Quick poll, WHEN BG is arrested, what degree of similarity do you think the new BG sketch will have to the actual perp? I’m going to say little to mediocre, moo jmo..

At the time of the crime, I suspect it'll be a pretty remarkable resemblance. In fact, I think it'll be so similar, his friends will need to provide details on why they didn't know it was him. Could be very costly and life-ruining for them.

 

[raja]

I just am so unsure because there are so many could be, may be, potential suspects that could resemble either of the sketches some what. I tend to believe he is now in his 20s unless someone who is in his late teens early 20s had someone pose to be him unbeknownst to the teen.

 

[Spartygirl]

As I'm sure you've figured out, this killer was convicted in 2015 (I believe) so it's not going to be "connected" per se, unless you mean it's important to understand those cases where two girls (or two young individuals, I should say) were taken at the same time and how those cases may be different from your average abduction/murder. In which case I absolutely, 100% agree. And if you are collecting cases like this for study, look into the serial killer Michael Ross. Of the 8 girls/women he murdered, there was one pair of young girls while the others were single abductions/murders. When he was on death row he talked about his motivations and I honestly believe they are probably quite similar to those of the Delphi killer.

Oh WOW-- Thank you-- I will look into him. I have just started (slowly) this project but darn work keeps getting in the way LOL

 

[Justice101]

Quick poll, WHEN BG is arrested, what degree of similarity do you think the new BG sketch will have to the actual perp? I’m going to say little to mediocre, moo jmo.

I still think he is much older than 18, moo. I think he is at leaaast 30s or 40s, JMO.

I agree, he looks a good 40 in the photo.. not face so much as body shape, clothing

 

[Justice101]

Quick poll, WHEN BG is arrested, what degree of similarity do you think the new BG sketch will have to the actual perp? I’m going to say little to mediocre, moo jmo.

I still think he is much older than 18, moo. I think he is at leaaast 30s or 40s, JMO.

And eyewitness visual reports (and sketches) are one of the lowest forms of evidence.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I feel the same @margarita25 I don’t have a lot of confidence in the new sketch’s accuracy in appearance to a real person but hopefully I’m wrong. He has probably changed his appearance quite a bit since that horrific day.

Virtually no. IF it's the one, I think it is.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Quick poll, WHEN BG is arrested, what degree of similarity do you think the new BG sketch will have to the actual perp? I’m going to say little to mediocre, moo jmo.

I still think he is much older than 18, moo. I think he is at leaaast 30s or 40s, JMO.

I think, he was 29 yo at the time.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It is difficult speculating with no details. However LE will know the motive, if sexual, and the COD so they should be some steps ahead of us. At least the girls were found quickly, unlike Iowa where they don't know COD or whether there was a sexual motive. Margarita has asked if there are any cases of murdered young girls that weren't sexual, and I believe there are probably plenty where they do not know, like Iowa or other cases where decomposition makes it impossible to know.

I don't know why exactly, but I'm always NOT thinking of SA in this case. Can't explain, why I'm thinking that? In every other case, my first thought would be: SA certainly.
So, a motive is missing. That makes it difficult to understand, why at all did that happen to Abby and Libby? Suddenly. Final.

 

[Heaven Leigh]

I still struggle with how this can happen twice. Lyric and Elizabeth case still being unsolved is disheartening. I worry this will be the same.
It just seems like too big of a coincidence for me for them both not be related..I don't know.
imo-

 

[Area52]

The police know (by his own words) that both weapons were in his possession but the one they've never found they believe was subsequently sold at a gun show. He said he acted alone. So with that said, what is the point of your musings? You are suggesting that Kevin Sweat had a secret accomplice who later became the Delphi killer?

By the way, do you happen to remember a poster on these threads (now banned) named Shiressleuth? He or she also had an interest in the Weleetka murders and their relation to the ones in Delphi.

Things that make you go hmmmmm!

 

[margarita25]

Dbm

 

[steeltowngirl]

I’d be very surprised to learn the motive was anything other than SA and intentional murder, and I say this strictly from a statistical perspective, moo.

Sure there are other possibilities, which include something they may have seen or known about, some type of revenge..ticked him off...random thrill killing where chances are rare, meth induced psychosis, etc etc, everything we’ve discussed already...point is
I struggle to think of cases where an “ADULT MALE killed a FEMALE CHILD/TEEN” and there was not SA present. It seems to me in the other cases whocb are corcumstantially similar statistically indicate SA as motive.

Can anyone here give an example of a case where man killed a female minor and the motive was not SA? I’m honestly curious..we have familial homicides, mass shootings and robbery instances, but I’m talking flat out man kills a girl/teen... He’s in a wooded area...KWIM.

IMO if this wasn’t SA, LE likely maybe would have revealed this, and I know people disagree with this, that they still may keep this close to the vest, but imo they could still preserve COD and say no SA occurred. This would be able to dispel rumors more easily and give the families, community members, classmates peace about this, that they died “immediately”, etc. but again moo and I could be wrong about that.

This is likely imo, when it comes down to it, literally a “boogeyman in the woods” as I said in thread 1 day 1 after recovery.

BBM: Again sure there are other possibilities, but statistically imo this is not reflected as common motive.

STATS plain and simple say “SA”.

Are the stats different here? Time will hopefully tell what happened to these poor girls once this @&$” is behind bars.

—-

ETA:
Reading over my post, perhaps more than one motive is at play here, for example “SA AND meth induced psychosis for example, “insert variable”...Making a note to think about this further.

"Can anyone here give an example of a case where man killed a female minor and the motive was not SA?"

I have been researching double homicides of teen girls, to try to glean something.

15-year-old Nisa Mickens and 16-year-old Kalya Cuevas, were murdered by members of MS-13 gang.
But it was NY area, not rural Indiana.

All of the rest that I researched (other than familial) were SA. One or two revenge, but still involved SA.

Feds: MS-13 gang members arrested in slayings of NY teen girls