Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[Charlot123]

One religious reference in the April PC struck me as odd at the time and still seems odd, especially since we all think the PC was carefully scripted and words carefully chosen. Carter mentions “The Shack” and evil, death, and eternity. He then says, and I quote “And I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not....is not...what they are experiencing today”. Why would you feel that needed to be said? Do they think the killer is part of some religious group with very different ideas on eternity than the norm and LE was challenging him on that? I’m sure I’m probably over-thinking it, but it just seems weird in a carefully crafted PC, in a country where the vast majority are Christians, that you feel the need to say something like this.

Well, they were appealing to his conscience. Honestly, how much conscience can a brutal murderer of two teens have left? Yet to rationalize this appeal to the murderer’s conscience, DC had to say something along the lines of, “they are in a better place”. Maybe even, so that the murderer would not be afraid to step ahead?

 

[Falling Down]

I watched a video a few days ago - a youtuber and his gf walked around the trails and the bridge. They were there for over five hours and only encountered one other person. It was a sunny, mild day. Makes you wonder how "random" these two girls were.

I've driven C.R. 300 on a nice day. It's quiet and tranquil, quite frankly. The road gets little through traffic, and I saw maybe one or two vehicles parked on the opposite side of IN 25, at the parking area there.

Seems to me foot traffic on the trails near the bridge is 'sporadic'.

JMO

-FD

 

[Cutiekitty]

At the time I suspect that BP was probably undergoing treatment and maybe LE thought it better for her(healthwise) and the family to not be there and hounded by the press. Her illness may have been caused by the stress of all of this for the last 2 plus years. And then to find out that all the work that she has been doing to get BG's picture out there was in vain. Just would add to the stress. JMO

I would think her illness would be even more reason to tell the family privately. I suppose it’s possible LE didn’t know about it.

I thought the family was there. I remember seeing AW and MP and I thought I saw BP in footage of the PC.

 

[TL4S]

I’ve had the exact same thoughts and questions.

As far as the family finding out before the PC I’m not sure what to think, but I definitely found it really weird. I’ve wondered if it was because it’s someone they know. I’ve also wondered if it’s because the family has been giving interviews to people on YouTube and LE wanted to control the release of the info for strategic reasons (similar to the reasons you outlined above). The interviews and debunking videos have been good for websleuths, but, IMO, they have actually hurt the case.

I found the religious references to be weird. Yes, the area is in the Bible Belt and the LE involved are Christians. Yes, religion has been brought up before in previous PCs, but it was more subtle. The religious references just seemed to be more pointed and purposeful in the April PC.

I agree that LE might not have told the family because they didn't want anything to inadvertently leak out before the PC, especially if LE truly thinks he's local and the grapevine is short.

 

[TL4S]

MOO, unless beyond incompetent the police must have used all the power possible to locate all trucks in the area. Using weigh station and transponder information to company scheduling they must have been able to identify them all.

I can imagine they did. I've never actually been big on the truck driver or Packer's plant theories, but I can't dismiss them entirely. There's nothing specifically pointing away from either of those things. We can assume LE has tracked down all truck drivers coming in and out of the area during that time frame, but they've also said they might have already talked to the suspect, or someone close to him, and were given the answer they were looking for. JMO

Is there any kind of information as to where the Delphi murders billboards were located across the country? I'm just curious if they were scattered along a lot of major highways, or if they mostly ran along specific routes.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

IDK...quiet. I kind of like the devil’s advocate role he/she plays TBH.

I do too. Their tact may be combative, but he/she brings up good points and questions. I dug it.

 

[Boxer]

I can imagine they did. I've never actually been big on the truck driver or Packer's plant theories, but I can't dismiss them entirely. There's nothing specifically pointing away from either of those things. We can assume LE has tracked down all truck drivers coming in and out of the area during that time frame, but they've also said they might have already talked to the suspect, or someone close to him, and were given the answer they were looking for. JMO

Is there any kind of information as to where the Delphi murders billboards were located across the country? I'm just curious if they were scattered along a lot of major highways, or if they mostly ran along specific routes.

 

[Spartygirl]

I would think her illness would be even more reason to tell the family privately. I suppose it’s possible LE didn’t know about it.

I thought the family was there. I remember seeing AW and MP and I thought I saw BP in footage of the PC.

They were there at the April presser

 

[Boxer]

They were there at the April presser

I believe it was a complete rumor that they left upset, and there are photos of them listening to the presser.

 

[BradB]

I watched a video a few days ago - a youtuber and his gf walked around the trails and the bridge. They were there for over five hours and only encountered one other person. It was a sunny, mild day. Makes you wonder how "random" these two girls were.

Exactly. Post of the year.

 

[kc1023]

I watched a video a few days ago - a youtuber and his gf walked around the trails and the bridge. They were there for over five hours and only encountered one other person. It was a sunny, mild day. Makes you wonder how "random" these two girls were.

ok but was this video taken recently? i am sure the numbers of local visitors dropped somewhat following the murders, especially of unaccompanied females and minors, so it's maybe not the fairest comparison but i get you JMO

 

[Cutiekitty]

I believe it was a complete rumor that they left upset, and there are photos of them listening to the presser.

I think it was a rumor too. I’m sure they actually were upset when they left afterwards. I think a lot of people in attendance were TBH. The info LE provided was probably a shock.

 

[busymcmoody]

ok but was this video taken recently? i am sure the numbers of local visitors dropped somewhat following the murders, especially of unaccompanied females and minors, so it's maybe not the fairest comparison but i get you JMO

Fair point!

 

[sunshineray]

has LE said that they have ruled out all the family members? usually, as insensitive as it may be, they can never do that. they also have to suspect close friends and associates, until they can completely rule them out.

Only time I've heard LE speak to your question was ISP Carter at the last PC update for the Flora fire investigation. (scroll down to the bottom of article for the video...at 19:08 Carter mentions delphi)

 

[tresir2012]

I believe it was a complete rumor that they left upset, and there are photos of them listening to the presser.

There is a pic of Libby's mum looking very upset IIRC.

 

[tresir2012]

Exactly. Post of the year.

So you think it was a planned meet? What makes you think that, just curious?

 

[busymcmoody]

So you think it was a planned meet? What makes you think that, just curious?

Not on the girls' behalf. But I wonder why someone would take a weapon on a hike (whatever that weapon was) and then kill two random girls. It just doesn't compute. This case drives me crazy because we don't know much after all this time.

 

[sunshineray]

He says the "vast majority" of Liberty and Abigail's family members have been cleared. Not all or 100%? Perhaps he is just being cautious in his estimate.

To me, ISP Carter seemed like a deer in the headlights when he was asked that. He wasn't expecting that question after answering so many about the Flora case at a Flora case PC. If he'd said no comment or I can't talk about an on-going investigation it could have seemed like a big red flag to the press.

He was asked a direct question and he choose his words. Instead of just saying something like we investigated the families early on and moved on, he choose to say the "vast majority" have been cleared, leaving it hanging there.

People can digest those words differently. I think ISP Carter choosing to even put that language out there has some value in the investigation. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I believe it was a complete rumor that they left upset, and there are photos of them listening to the presser.

The newscaster, a woman, said she saw the Patty's leaving with BP crying. Maybe they just stepped out of the building for a few minutes for some air and privacy (all media was inside set up for PC) or into another more private area and then came back?

 

[Elsa Johanssen]

I have been researching this case for a while and I have to say, (for the first time) my perception has completely changed for reasons I am probably not allowed to say here. LE, IMO, are very knowledgeable and much smarter than what we may think (which is a complete 180 from what I thought months ago). Internally, it may be quite chaotic since there is a possibility there is some COI since local cops tend to know local people close to the case (in any small town with a murder case!). I believe it is one reason LE is so tight-lipped even among their own.

In my mind, a majority of people think it's one person and who feel it's very obvious. Another group is vehemently protective of this person and willing to do anything to help cover tracks, which is what is (IMO) causing the police so much headache and a virtual block. Police, on top of everything else, have had to sift through false (and very intentional) rumor (i.e. 2 men who wore ______!) that has potentially obstructed the case.

There is mention by Carter of The Shack at the PC - which I do not believe is a coincidence. I believe police think that it was watched at church with family and wanted to clearly signal LE is watching him. I also have heard that there is a structure of some sort (cabin/shack) in the woods near the bridge, where youth groups meet, that police may be interested in. I'm not sure how it ties into all of this but wanted to post in case anyone knows anything about this.

Finally, you have a DA that stepped down 1 year early ("for personal and professional reasons") and a cop that looks like he saw a ghost before a press conference. It is in these scenarios where police are often threatened by the guilty---- so I think it's something to keep in mind. It is something i think is 99% probable.

I believe this case will be solved as soon as they release that piece of information that they know will shake the community. The information has to get out so that the public can offer information that is specific enough that they can use to finally put this person behind bars.