Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[tresir2012]

As some posters have mentioned the pic of BG on the bridge and other BG stuff I thought it good to post this crime scene flow if any of you haven't seen it. Its a bit spooky but really clarifies the trails and the bridge, where the girls and BG were and down the hill to the creek.

 

[SilentRogue]

I've never watched it. But if it increases the burden of proof that's good IMO.

The burden of proof is and always has been 'beyond a reasonable doubt' in criminal trials in the United States.

What it does increase, because it's based on fiction, is the public's perception of the application, credibility, and abundance of scientific evidence in criminal trials.

 

[tresir2012]

The burden of proof is and always has been 'beyond a reasonable doubt' in criminal trials in the United States.

What it does increase, because it's based on fiction, is the public's perception of the application, credibility, and abundance of scientific evidence in criminal trials.

Burden of proof (law) - Wikipedia

Gosh it's boring.

 

[Boxer]

Have you ever heard of the CSI affect?

CSI effect - Wikipedia

MOO your answer to question is in the form of a question. I would apppreciate a diect answer.

On the topic of whether whether CSI type police procedurals have had an affect by informing criminals to take more care about not leaving evidence, you are pointing out, by way of a question, that juries may now want to see more CSI type evidence. Not really what I was thinking ablut.
I was talking about criminals shaving, using gloves, cleaning products, avoiding routes with ATM cams and so on.

But Jury bias is interesting so...

From here forward I am using CSI to mean the results from a law enforcement agency's or FBI's Crime Scene Investigation lab.

I believe that prosecuting attorney's make it clear to juries that watching a show where 100% of murders are solved weekly, is different than real life, and that they must weigh the evidence that they are presented. I believe most people take jury service very seriously, listen to the instructions and carefully and apply them as instructed.

The Wikipedia article you cited is from 2002. Subsequent research added to the article state the "CSI Effect" appears to be mostly an urban myth.
The remedy suggested is that jurors be asked about their TV watching habits and addressing whether it would cause them bias.

 

[somequestions]

The police could have lots of physical evidence in this case or none at all. We do not know. But even if police had lots of physical evidence, you still have to find the person to connect it to.

And if you do not know who you are looking for or are looking for the wrong person, that might take a very long time.

 

[NameUser]

The police could have lots of physical evidence in this case or none at all. We do not know. But even if police had lots of physical evidence, you still have to find the person to connect it to.

And if you do not know who you are looking for or are looking for the wrong person, that might take a very long time.

My thoughts as well. They have lots puzzles pieces and are having a hard time getting them together correctly.

 

[JnRyan]

The police could have lots of physical evidence in this case or none at all. We do not know. But even if police had lots of physical evidence, you still have to find the person to connect it to.

And if you do not know who you are looking for or are looking for the wrong person, that might take a very long time.

And if you add in over 42K in tips, this is a jigsaw puzzle with a LOT of pieces to put together!

 

[SilentRogue]

And if you add in over 42K in tips, this is a jigsaw puzzle with a LOT pieces to put together!

You know 41,500 tips are angry ex's, "sleuths", psychics, etc...

 

[Mike Britton]

This is fascinating to me, Mike. How tall do you believe the perpetrator is?

In my opinion, if you remove the "everyone's fatter on TV" stretch applied by the camera lens, he's six feet tall.

 

[SilentRogue]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I've previously explained that this investigation is at a stand still until one of the following 3 things happen:

This case is going to be solved by one or more of few things:

1) Someone deciding to finally come forward and make a disclosure they hadn't previously made;

2) Law enforcement making a break through based on information they already have;

3) Assailant confessing to law enforcement or a third-party who subsequently reports the statement to law enforcement;

3a) Assailant being caught for another crime, and subsequently confessing to being the man commonly referred to as BG.

 

[somequestions]

I think shows like CSI, The Wire, etc... (you guys know the type of shows I’m talking about) provide people with some exposure to the types of things LE and forensics might look for or do during an investigation. They aren’t a step by step investigative guide by any means, but some of the things they show aren’t that far off from how a case might be worked. The true crime shows like the documentary type ones give even more exposure. The Internet gives the most.

When I made a point about something one time to law enforcement they chuckled a little and told me to stop watching t.v. I did not even bring up the name of any shows like CSI since I do not like CSI. According to them, "what you see on t.v." is way off and not even close to how an investigation is run in real life.

I admit I like to watch episodes of Forensic Files. I think they meant more fictional shows like CSI.

 

[sunshineray]

Ok. I noticed a connection that struck me as curious. I don't want to get in trouble so I'm not including named and later reference the article where I noticed the connection. I also refer to previous posts. I don't know how to "bump" posts so I will just refer to the date, around Sep 5, 2019. A local business was mentioned, a query. Did one of the girls work there? Thus same place hosted a fund raiser noted in several articles in the news not long after the murders.
A bit later in my readings I noticed a poster talking about a highway shutdown on Fb 27 17 near the bridge. (Searching something?) A guy who was on probation that lived near the shutdown was reported by the probation crew to have had a beer at this eating establishment, breaking his probation on the same date. Again I don't know how to "bump" this.
Why would he flaunt the probation guidelines, and at this particular Gathering:eating place, on that date, when something was going on near his home?
Court docs: Property owner visited dump on day of Delphi killings
Also jailed again for driving a vehicle parked across the street, per article. Hm. Was this the type car the were asking about sightings for?
Strike me down oh gods of WS if my questions overstep the guidelines and I pray forgiveness in advance. But my questions remain.

Just curious Gracie, are you thinking that there may have been more than one assailant against Abby and Libby?

 

[otto]

I've previously explained that this investigation is at a stand still until one of the following 3 things happen:

This case is going to be solved by one or more of few things:

1) Someone deciding to finally come forward and make a disclosure they hadn't previously made;

2) Law enforcement making a break through based on information they already have;

3) Assailant confessing to law enforcement or a third-party who subsequently reports the statement to law enforcement;

3a) Assailant being caught for another crime, and subsequently confessing to being the man commonly referred to as BG.

Thank you! I need to put this in my own words to get it.
The investigation is at a stand still until one of the following 3 things solves the murders:

• Someone comes forward to disclose something new
• Police review evidence and learn something new
• Confession

I agree. I think that covers it.

 

[otto]

Just curious Gracie, are you thinking that there may have been more than one assailant against Abby and Libby?

Someone else could very easily have been down the hill at the end of the bridge.

 

[they'll get you]

Someone else could very easily have been down the hill at the end of the bridge.

Was there the report of a couple fighting under the bridge?

 

[otto]

Was there the report of a couple fighting under the bridge?

I did not read that at the time of the abduction. Even if there was a fighting couple under the bridge, they haven't added anything that solves the murders.

Has anything been released about whether anything was said after "down the hill?" What happened next? Was there a second voice, was the phone turned off, what happened next?

 

[Cutiekitty]

When I made a point about something one time to law enforcement they chuckled a little and told me to stop watching t.v. I did not even bring up the name of any shows like CSI since I do not like CSI. According to them, "what you see on t.v." is way off and not even close to how an investigation is run in real life.

I admit I like to watch episodes of Forensic Files. I think they meant more fictional shows like CSI.

Oh, I’m not saying TV show investigations work exactly the same as a real investigation - I’m saying there are some similarities. The shows are not complete fiction. LE is going to look for evidence whether it’s biological, technological or just data just like they do on those shows.

Now, LE isn’t necessarily going to be able to punch a button on a computer and have access to all info on a person including cell phone info, their cable payment history, and their credit report like they do on the shows. I just don’t think private entities are as willing to share their info as freely as they do on TV. LE can get it, but not the way it’s portrayed on TV.

I don’t watch CSI, but I’ve seen a few episodes. I’ve never seen The Wire, only heard about it. I’ve seen Criminal Minds and it was ridiculous to me. The only “crime show” I religiously watched was Mysteries of Laura, but that was kind of different. I prefer documentary style programming regardless of subject.

Edit: I suppose it also depends on what you said/asked and the experience level of who you spoke with too.

 

[otto]

Oh, I’m not saying TV show investigations work exactly the same as a real investigation - I’m saying there are some similarities. The shows are not complete fiction. LE is going to look for evidence whether it’s biological, technological or just data just like they do on those shows.

Now, LE isn’t necessarily going to be able to punch a button on a computer and have access to all info on a person including cell phone info, their cable payment history, and their credit report like they do on the shows. I just don’t think private entities are as willing to share their info as freely as they do on TV. LE can get it, but not the way it’s portrayed on TV.

I don’t watch CSI, but I’ve seen a few episodes. I’ve never seen The Wire, only heard about it. I’ve seen Criminal Minds and it was ridiculous to me. The only “crime show” I religiously watched was Mysteries of Laura, but that was kind of different. I prefer documentary style programming regardless of subject.

Edit: I suppose it also depends on what you said/asked too.

Actually, one of the Criminal Mind TV show FBI writers was a frequent contributor to the Amanda Knox discussions. The big difference between real people explaining the criminal process, and TV, is real time distortion, plus TV has to have a happy ending.

Don't assume that online activity is anonymous. Stores and institutions can mount digital tracking devices at the door and use software to track your movements in and out of the floor space. Software accesses the ID number on your phone to track you - the beauty of Smart Technology.

In any case, it looks like the evidence that is available has not yet made a difference. For example, there must be DNA evidence as it was used to rule out the possibility that these murders are related to the Evansdale cousin murders. They look so similar, but DNA says no.

That means that the person who did this does not have DNA on file, but what about relatives? Have investigators compared the DNA to what is available through open ancestry databases?

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you! I need to put this in my own words to get it.
The investigation is at a stand still until one of the following 3 things solves the murders:

• Someone comes forward to disclose something new
• Police review evidence and learn something new
• Confession

I agree. I think that covers it.

Also worth mentioning would be...finding brand new evidence.
It happened in the Rhoden case where it appeared that LE knew who was guilty for a considerable amount of time but chose not to arrest...until they checked a certain well on a previously owned property of the suspects.

 

[otto]

Also worth mentioning would be...finding brand new evidence.
It happened in the Rhoden case where it appeared that LE knew who was guilty for a considerable amount of time but chose not to arrest...until they checked a certain well on a previously owned property of the suspects.

The investigation is at a stand still until one of the following 3 things happens:

• Police find, or someone discloses, new evidence
• Police review evidence and learn something new
• Confession