Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

[heartgoesout]

I hesitate to weigh in on "prison justice." It's a very emotionally charged topic for some. Personally, I don't think most victims families endorse prison justice. On serious reflection, as much as we may in the heat of the moment think that's what we want, it really isn't. I think what all of us desire is true justice by the State. That is also their mandate. I am perhaps one of the few that would rather see the death penalty invoked for those who without a doubt committed a heinous, unprovoked murder of another. I also understand that it is not suitable for every murder case but some that come to mind from my area from recent times are Paul Bernardo and Karla Holmolka, Dellen Millard and Mark Smich and Colonel Russell Williams. I'm sure there are plenty south of the border that deserve it too. If/when Patrick Frazee is found guilty of Kelsey Berreth's murder, he's on my list as well. Unfortunately, CO will likely never execute another murderer.

I believe when true justice is executed by the state, there is no need for prison justice and as stated by another member, what of those that are convicted innocents?

As always, JMHO

Have you been the victim of a heinous crime? My family has. We are divided on what we all consider true justice for the murderer. Some would sit with the murderer and talk while others would shoot him on sight.
It is not up to anyone to decide how victims of a heinous crime should heal or want their justice.

 

[FinePrint]

6 months after new sketch released on Delphi murder suspect

New article up at Fox59 news. I've read it. Couple of tidbits.

It's nice to get any news. MOO.

ETA: Watch the video!!!!!!

Thanks for posting that.

I felt a certain amount of doom after Riley said...I can’t say we’re discouraged.

To me it sounded like they are close to being discouraged.

I can’t stand this: “one tip away from solving this crime”

Well yeah, I guess if someone walked into the police station and confessed that would solve it or if his wife or gf turned him in that would solve it.

I hate to think that now at this point they, LE feels this is the only way this is going to be solved.

I’m feeling, in Riley’s words, discouraged... Moo

 

[Spartygirl]

You are right...it makes it impossible. Now that i read that, I think you are right. If i am not mistaken, he said Libby would have fought like hell, or was sure she fought like hell because of her personality....and that had turned into "Libby fought like hell."

Kinda like Kelsi saying the girls were so close "neither would have left the othet" turned into the repeated line "one of the girls could have gotten away but they stayed with their friend."

An emotional (not factual) line spoken by a family member that gets twisted to mean something literal.

And some people wonder why some family members aren't talking or chatting in SM.
This is why they don't. I probably would not either.
It is normal procedure to have ONE main spokesperson for the family and this would be MP in this case.
It's like damned if you do and damned if you don't- people have criticized other family members with "OMG==he must be BG or he must know--He is GUILTY --just because they aren't blasting all over the place.
On the other hand, when someone does speak publicly then their words are taken out of context.
I understand completely why other family members aren't talking on SM.
JMO

 

[susiQ]

Have you been the victim of a heinous crime? My family has. We are divided on what we all consider true justice for the murderer. Some would sit with the murderer and talk while others would shoot him on sight.
It is not up to anyone to decide how victims of a heinous crime should heal or want their justice.

I'm very sorry for your and your family's tragic loss. Thankfully, I have not lost close family or friend through such tragedy. Nor did I suggest it was up to anyone to decide how victims should heal or want their justice. I merely expressed my personal opinion. Everyone may choose to deal with their grief as they see fit.
ed:sp

 

[FrostedGlass]

Random thought:
Do we know for sure if the girls were found in the water or out? Does anyone think they could have been drowned? I keep wondering how he managed both girls. I do think he had a weapon, possibly a gun, but didn't use it to kill them. I CAN see him using it though to march them into the water, make them kneel down facing away from him, and then using both hands to push their heads under the water at the same time. (Sorry, yucky typing that.) It would be quiet and pretty fast. How much strength would that take? Maybe not possible at all? It would wash away the evidence. MOO

I think they were either drowned, choked or both. MOO

The bodies were sent to Terre Haute IN for the autopsies. There is a pathologist there, Dr. Roland Kohr, who has expertise in asphyxia, along with blood/fluid testing and tissue biopsy. I have no idea if Kohr did the autopsies. (I wish I did)

 

[FrostedGlass]

I just read one of the old articles and realize I have no more understanding of some things now than I did when this crime happened. This quote... what a stark contrast it is to how they trotted RL out for speculation.

Why would LE have gotten a SW if no one was suspected of a crime? Was it their computers/phones they wanted?

Carroll County Prosecutor Robert T. Ives took to Facebook to remind residents that no one has been charged in the case. He implored residents not to “harass, bother or accuse anyone,” especially those who live at a home that was the subject of a search warrant last week.

“No one at the home searched is suspected of committing any crime,” Ives wrote Sunday afternoon. “Please, please leave these people alone and let the police work.”

Prosecutor urges Delphi community to remain calm as police search for suspect linked to teens’ deaths

 

[heartgoesout]

I'm very sorry for your and your family's tragic loss. Thankfully, I have not lost close family or friend through such tragedy. Nor did I suggest it was up to anyone to decide how victims should heal or want their justice. I merely expressed my personal opinion. Everyone may choose to deal with their grief as they see fit.
ed:sp

Thank you very much for the sentiment. It is much appreciated. I was commenting on what you wrote which was, "Personally, I don't think most victims families endorse prison justice." and "in the heat of the moment think that's what we want, it really isn't."

As a family member of a victim of a heinous murder, I can attest that the pain does not go away. Nor does the feelings of anger and ones right to want prison justice. As you surmised, ones opinion on an emotionally charged topic without the experience of that topic, is difficult to read.
For the record I am on the side of the family that would shoot the murderer on sight.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Does anyone know where the following story/ rumor originated?

Ive long heard a rumor of a young man in a pick up with vehicle trouble on the side of a road near the bridge. Someone (often described as a lady, came by and asked if he needed help. He said he had called his dad and was just waiting for his dad to pick him up.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Does anyone know where the following story/ rumor originated?

Ive long heard a rumor of a young man in a pick up with vehicle trouble on the side of a road near the bridge. Someone (often described as a lady, came by and asked if he needed help. He said he had called his dad and was just waiting for his dad to pick him up.

You might want to check the scanner thread. FYI: Nothing from the scanner thread can be mentioned in the main thread.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-scanner-thread.333467/

 

[ScumbagTrav]

You might want to check the scanner thread. FYI: Nothing from the scanner thread can be mentioned in the main thread.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-scanner-thread.333467/

Thanks!

 

[Charlot123]

6 months after new sketch released on Delphi murder suspect

New article up at Fox59 news. I've read it. Couple of tidbits.

It's nice to get any news. MOO.

ETA: Watch the video!!!!!!

Well, probably the only people who could have given this tip are the relatives. And would they? The parents love their child, the siblings have too much to lose if the truth gets out.

 

[Charlot123]

JMO
I respectfully disagree that it is 'enough punishment' that he had his future and he destroyed it and that prison is enough punishment.

These young girls lost their opportunity at ANY future because of what he did.

He has almost destroyed a small community. Their families, their friends .....everyone who's name has ever been uttered as a POI (and who actually isn't) and especially what he did to those girls, it is ALL ON HIM. EVERYTHING he did.

If his relatives choose to stand by him, their lives will be destroyed, if they don't, their lives will STILL be destroyed simply by association to this monster. So he has affected even more people now.....

I can say with a very large degree of certainty (which is only my opinion), that the wrong person isn't going to be put away for this crime. No way, no now. They are going to arrest one person for this crime, and it will be the right person when the time comes.

If the boys in prison get a hold of him and make him feel even 1/10th of what these families have felt....then I am okay with 'Prison Justice'.

All JMO

And this might be the reason he is not coming forward. Who would, given the "boys in prison".

But mainly, @bradfordsleuth , we have to treat everyone equally. I know he is a horrible guy. That doesn't mean we have to be a horrible society. Lock him up forever, yes. Torture in prison, no. Even if he were the torturer.

If we allow it here, we blanket allow it for everyone. And what if a mistake is made - not in this - in another case? The person who was subjected to prison justice and later proven innocent would have the right to sue the system for millions and millions. Or, if he died in prison, his relatives would.

 

[Boxer]

Of course he should be punished. Punishment is societal justice.

He has to be brought to court, with good evidence, get a trial, and life without parole. Stay in his cell for 23 hours a day (like CW does, reading the Bible to the portrait of the family he destroyed).

The rest - allowing the prisoners to mete our own justice - is not right.

Life without parole is bad , and long, enough.

There is society justice, which is law.

And then there is prison justice, basically, the same @worse than street justice, and it is wrong, and it is lawlessness.

Agree. Abdicating the responsibility of delivering justice to criminals is cowardly.

 

[Charlot123]

Have you been the victim of a heinous crime? My family has. We are divided on what we all consider true justice for the murderer. Some would sit with the murderer and talk while others would shoot him on sight.
It is not up to anyone to decide how victims of a heinous crime should heal or want their justice.

First, @heartgoesout , I am sorry for you and your family. I wish the murderer never gets out.

 

[Charlot123]

Does anyone know where the following story/ rumor originated?

Ive long heard a rumor of a young man in a pick up with vehicle trouble on the side of a road near the bridge. Someone (often described as a lady, came by and asked if he needed help. He said he had called his dad and was just waiting for his dad to pick him up.

It is either a different guy, or, very likely, he lied.

 

[heartgoesout]

First, @heartgoesout , I am sorry for you and your family. I wish the murderer never gets out.

He's a lifer. Aggravating circumstances.
Thank you so very much for the sentiment.
I apologize for derailing the thread but my Heart truly Goes Out to any victim of any crime. Especially the ones were you don't get the victim back.

 

[Ibiz]

I suppose anything is possible but it just doesn't fit the PC IMO. I don't envision a mentally ill paranoid schizophrenic uttering the command, "Guys......down the hill," with such calm and confidence. But, that's just me.

Schizophrenics can be amazingly functional beings, and yes they can speak, and bark out orders. At times, their brains just aren't capable of separating reality from what their hallucinations are telling them. They can even hide the fact that they are sick when they feel they need to.

Often times schizophrenics are very religious.

 

[Falcon500]

I just read one of the old articles and realize I have no more understanding of some things now than I did when this crime happened. This quote... what a stark contrast it is to how they trotted RL out for speculation.

Why would LE have gotten a SW if no one was suspected of a crime? Was it their computers/phones they wanted?

———————————————————————————————————————————-



I think you are referring to the property that the bodies were found on or property close by. The police have to be careful in situations like that. If the murder happened on property owned by the Little Sisters of the Poor it would be advisable to have a search warrant in case ten years from now Sister Mary Ann came forward and confessed.

 

[Blueberry2720]

6 months after new sketch released on Delphi murder suspect

New article up at Fox59 news. I've read it. Couple of tidbits.

It's nice to get any news. MOO.

ETA: Watch the video!!!!!!

I heard a few positive and promising comments in there! See, LE IS still working hard behind the scenes!!

 

[Charlot123]

He's a lifer. Aggravating circumstances.
Thank you so very much for the sentiment.
I apologize for derailing the thread but my Heart truly Goes Out to any victim of any crime. Especially the ones were you don't get the victim back.

I think that for the relatives, missing their beloved ones, the victims, is bad enough. But to know that they were scared and suffered before the departure must be unbearable. This is how I would probably feel.

I can't imagine what side I'd be on. Maybe on the one that wanted to shoot him on the spot. Quite possibly, btw.

But I don't think that hearing that the murderer is "having it hard in prison" would ease my pain. Likely, it won't help at all.

And from the practical standpoint, I do not want BG to be so scared that he'd never confess. Sometimes I think he would have confessed if it were not for the fear.

Likewise, i want him to live to tell the full story. Why and how.