Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[tresir2012]

I've been looking for historic cases of attacks on hiking trails and in remote areas. There really have not been very many that I have found. I grouped them in four categories:
1. Double abduction/murder
2. Abduction on a trail
3. No vehicle used in attack
4. Cold weather outdoor attack

I have only been able to find the Delphi case where there was a cold weather outdoor attack. All the other cases that I have found have all been in the spring or summer months.

Some of the cases fit into multiple categories and some of the cases were male/female attacks rather than attacks on females only. There were a few cases that I included that were sole females.

The cases seemed to fall into some general types of attacks.
1. Offender had obvious serious untreated mental illness
2. Attack included sexual assault
3. Serial Killer (Hilton, Carpenter, Scott)
4. Blitz attack - no obvious motive

The cases where the text is in green are unsolved cases but the location was similar to the Delphi case so I kept them on the list. There maybe something that turns out to be similar to the Delphi case.

This info is really excellent. I am wondering if it could go in the media, maps and timeline thread if that is allowed.

 

[taximama24]

TY for that. I do remember seeing her Instagram early on. Would a reset of her phone have affected her SC contacts do you think?

The reset would not affect her Snapchat contacts, it would have taken the app off of her phone, but since we know she was on it, we know she re-downloaded it and once she signed back into her user name, everything would be back, including pictures she had saved to her snapchat memories, etc. Everything gets saved to the user name, you can access your account from any app just by signing in and out with your user name.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Someone giving him a false alibi I bet. Early in the investigation LE said they were having trouble with people lying about alibis.

I'm wondering, if he didn't need any alibi at all, because he is so trustworthy and well-known and it would have been so very outlandish at that time to suspect him. Maybe, there was a reasonable occasion for him to be in that area (around Delphi) and no questions were asked further. If he himself had questions re the murders and investigation, maybe, LE even told him their assumptions to a certain degree, because he is so trustworthy (they thought) or WAS trustworthy until the beginning of 2019. MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I never thought of a bone marrow bank or database. However, I doubt LE can access those as this might be against HIPAA and other medical privacy laws.

Potentially, they would need a judge order to search. I assume in the case of a SK, such things can be done. (And should - people are trying to save every life, and here a guy brutally kills young women, who have not even borne kids. But it is not a SK case AFAIK). It is an issue of ethics, and people usually have different opinions when it comes to ethics. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Again, you're making claims that are totally unsupported by any evidence.
-
That LE's efforts have not yet solved the case does not mean that LE was "led" by anyone, let alone that it was done deliberately. They likely made mistakes. They may have done what many of us did: they may have looked at the video of BG and thought that he looked like a middle-aged man. They may have then discounted the witness who provided the description of a younger perp used in the NBG sketch. Some witnesses may have provided very poor descriptions, either because their memories were faulty or because they were describing the wrong person.
-
There's no evidence for your imaginary second perp, and there's no evidence for your imaginary mole.

Until the LE release more information, it is impossible to make a sound judgment of what has happened. So people have the right to make own assumptions.

I only can say that in 21st century, abundance of information about “the Shack” and lack of information about the DNA may not sit well with the country.

So I think the LE should turn less emotional - no one cares about his carvings on own table, tbh - and more professional. MOO.

 

[Boxer]

Someone giving him a false alibi I bet. Early in the investigation LE said they were having trouble with people lying about alibis.

IIRC that"some people" are lying about alibis was a way for the police of saying RL lied about his whereabouts during the crime.
RL lied about driving, drinking, and actually driving to the transfer station on road 625 the afternoon of the murder, which is the South access road to MHB.
The sheriffs were infuriated, because even if RL was not the killer which was obvious from the video, he was a prime witness to the time and area.

 

[JDough]

Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method that could soon replace DNA evidence to solve crimes

Researchers at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) set out to make hair comparisons a more useful technique for investigating crimes, as DNA evidence degrades much faster. [...]

A single strand of hair can be used to solve the toughest crimes.

By heating a follicle in solution, researchers are able extract protein that is unique to that person – allowing them to identify a law-breaking individual.

Officials on the scene only need to locate a hair strand as shorts as one centimeter for the test to be successful, which is said to be eight times more sensitive than the leading protein analysis techniques.
Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method | Daily Mail Online

With the continuing advances in science, I would say that BG's days are numbered.

 

[Charlot123]

Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method that could soon replace DNA evidence to solve crimes

Researchers at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) set out to make hair comparisons a more useful technique for investigating crimes, as DNA evidence degrades much faster. [...]

A single strand of hair can be used to solve the toughest crimes.

By heating a follicle in solution, researchers are able extract protein that is unique to that person – allowing them to identify a law-breaking individual.

Officials on the scene only need to locate a hair strand as shorts as one centimeter for the test to be successful, which is said to be eight times more sensitive than the leading protein analysis techniques.
Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method | Daily Mail Online

With the continuing advances in science, I would say that BG's days are numbered.

One hopes. The only problem is, the article mentions the follicle, again. It is easier to obtain the shaft.

With continuing advances in science, one wonders how Delphi could not find the funds to replace the broken trails camera. It is on their newly re-elect mayor. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

IIRC that"some people" are lying about alibis was a way for the police of saying RL lied about his whereabouts during the crime.
RL lied about driving, drinking, and actually driving to the transfer station on road 625 the afternoon of the murder, which is the South access road to MHB.
The sheriffs were infuriated, because even if RL was not the killer which was obvious from the video, he was a prime witness to the time and area.

I got the impression it was more than just one guy they were talking about otherwise why make that comment at all?
Regarding RL his trip to the transfer station was on camera so any alibi he gave would have been immediately evident. Obviously we won't know unless someone has asked the sheriff since then.

 

[tresir2012]

One hopes. The only problem is, the article mentions the follicle, again. It is easier to obtain the shaft.

With continuing advances in science, one wonders how Delphi could not find the funds to replace the broken trails camera. It is on their newly re-elect mayor. MOO.

Broken trail cams? I thought they had no trail cams.

 

[sunshineray]

Someone giving him a false alibi I bet. Early in the investigation LE said they were having trouble with people lying about alibis.

Oh my, did they really? I missed that...Wow that's quite shocking!

 

[Boxer]

I got the impression it was more than just one guy they were talking about otherwise why make that comment at all?
Regarding RL his trip to the transfer station was on camera so any alibi he gave would have been immediately evident. Obviously we won't know unless someone has asked the sheriff since then.

I agree, it is probably about many people.
Still, the interview video snippet I saw was of a CaCo Deputy when they were at RLs house with search warrant.
The deputy seemed to be specifically answering why they were there at RL's house with a Midwestern, "well some people have been lying to us."
Meaning to explain the massive shakedown happening behind him.

 

[Boxer]

Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method that could soon replace DNA evidence to solve crimes

Researchers at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) set out to make hair comparisons a more useful technique for investigating crimes, as DNA evidence degrades much faster. [...]

A single strand of hair can be used to solve the toughest crimes.

By heating a follicle in solution, researchers are able extract protein that is unique to that person – allowing them to identify a law-breaking individual.

Officials on the scene only need to locate a hair strand as shorts as one centimeter for the test to be successful, which is said to be eight times more sensitive than the leading protein analysis techniques.
Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method | Daily Mail Online

With the continuing advances in science, I would say that BG's days are numbered.

Good news.

 

[Peppery]

Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method that could soon replace DNA evidence to solve crimes

Researchers at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) set out to make hair comparisons a more useful technique for investigating crimes, as DNA evidence degrades much faster. [...]

A single strand of hair can be used to solve the toughest crimes.

By heating a follicle in solution, researchers are able extract protein that is unique to that person – allowing them to identify a law-breaking individual.

Officials on the scene only need to locate a hair strand as shorts as one centimeter for the test to be successful, which is said to be eight times more sensitive than the leading protein analysis techniques.
Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method | Daily Mail Online

With the continuing advances in science, I would say that BG's days are numbered.

Thinking out loud...

I assume they’d have to test a LOT of samples in a case like this before they found one that didn’t match expected specimens and could be assumed to be BGs. Imagine all the hair possibilities at the scene? Each girls hair, possibly hair from family members on clothing, pet hair (can that be easily be determined from human hair?). And not just hair from the head, humans are basically covered in hair. We lose 150+ head hairs a day. I’m sure there were hairs from searchers, LE, coroner, etc whoever was at the scene.

Maybe if a victim got eyebrow, eyelash, arm or chest hair under the finger nails? That is more likely to include the follicle when being clawed at. Perhaps pubic hair is the best location as it’s less likely to have multiple donors in that area. But I don’t want to think about that with these girls.

It’s very interesting science and I have high hopes it will help in some cases. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Peppery]

My question was, did the girls remains at the viewing evidence any signs of trauma? Do you recall if anything was said or noted at the time? I have spent the past 2 hours reviewing the posts right after the Feb. 18 viewing/memorial at the High School, and did not see any report from anyone who was at the memorial service. Maybe the heavy discussion came a few days later? This case has so many posts--its nearly impossible to find what you want!

I do not think first hand accounts of the service were allowed unless from a VI. I could be wrong on that. i know we discussed it and it got a little heated, with lots of rumor being brought to WS. It seemed locals weren’t very willing to talk to MSM about the viewings. Maybe the posts were deleted? Google knows everything.

 

[Trebor5591]

Have you tried googling? You will likely come up with sources that we cannot discuss on here but it may answer some questions. Why do you want to know such details? LE have not released the autopsy and presumably you know that.

Why do I want to know how they died? I am surprised by your question. Because I am a member of this true crime community. Because I am horrified by their murders, and want to know what happened to them. Don't you want to know?

 

[JnRyan]

Fairly early news clip. Mentions swabbing as local and shows a good camera pan of the crime scene that you can see through the trees and catch a glimpse of the water.
Google Image Result for https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/96/2017/02/delphi-latest_37776480_ver1.0-1.png

This was VERY early on and they were taking DNA swabs. I had heard interviews from local residents in the first few months of the case that they were doing this, but I guess I didn't know LE was doing it as early as 17 February. I can't imagine that the lab had DNA results that quickly. So this might be more of a standard procedure rather than knowing they had DNA to compare. IOW, just in case the lab results return with DNA.

 

[margarita25]

Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method that could soon replace DNA evidence to solve crimes

Researchers at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) set out to make hair comparisons a more useful technique for investigating crimes, as DNA evidence degrades much faster. [...]

A single strand of hair can be used to solve the toughest crimes.

By heating a follicle in solution, researchers are able extract protein that is unique to that person – allowing them to identify a law-breaking individual.

Officials on the scene only need to locate a hair strand as shorts as one centimeter for the test to be successful, which is said to be eight times more sensitive than the leading protein analysis techniques.
Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method | Daily Mail Online

With the continuing advances in science, I would say that BG's days are numbered.

I've been looking for historic cases of attacks on hiking trails and in remote areas. There really have not been very many that I have found. I grouped them in four categories:
1. Double abduction/murder
2. Abduction on a trail
3. No vehicle used in attack
4. Cold weather outdoor attack

I have only been able to find the Delphi case where there was a cold weather outdoor attack. All the other cases that I have found have all been in the spring or summer months.

Some of the cases fit into multiple categories and some of the cases were male/female attacks rather than attacks on females only. There were a few cases that I included that were sole females.

The cases seemed to fall into some general types of attacks.
1. Offender had obvious serious untreated mental illness
2. Attack included sexual assault
3. Serial Killer (Hilton, Carpenter, Scott)
4. Blitz attack - no obvious motive

The cases where the text is in green are unsolved cases but the location was similar to the Delphi case so I kept them on the list. There maybe something that turns out to be similar to the Delphi case.

(Marking)

 

[Boxer]

Why do I want to know how they died? I am surprised by your question. Because I am a member of this true crime community. Because I am horrified by their murders, and want to know what happened to them. Don't you want to know?

Yes for trying to link MO to another similar crime.

But really NO, since there is so little evidence in this case that any information at all apparently has to be saved for the crucial step to making a case in court.

My theory is that they were hit from behind in the head with a rock, then if that was insufficient strangled.
I am sure I won't know if that is true until BG is caught.

 

[taximama24]

RSBM

Criminals can be identified from just a one centimeter strand of hair with a new method | Daily Mail Online

With the continuing advances in science, I would say that BG's days are numbered.

I hope science solves this case, but I think its unlikely to happen from hair. Hair that falls out easily is typically from breakage, that would not contain the DNA from the follicle, so I think this article might lead people to think its going to become a more mainstream method to solve crimes. Oh how I wish LE had enlisted the help of CeCe Moore back in 2018 when it was obvious they needed more help to solve this crime and when GEDmatch could be used. I'm hopeful the case still qualifies as "violent" enough that would allow LE to petition for a warrant for its use and perhaps her mastery will also prove to solve this *seemingly* cold case by the 3yr mark.