Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[Area52]

So now I'm looking at a younger guy with blue eyes potentially. Totally diff than original pic on bridge

No, the original report from the witness sketch said eye color: not blue.
Also, your remark about an abandoned car was incorrect. It was a car at an abandoned building. You might want to go back and read some of the information released by the police for clarity.

 

[somequestions]

I'm pages behind reading, but just wanted to give you hope about this case.
On Monday, it was announced that an Idaho case from 1982, a 9 year old girl who was kidnapped on her way to school, then murdered, has been solved, using DNA. This case has been the one I most wanted to see solved, for the past 38 years. And it's not the only one that has been solved after many years. We (the public) thought that it was a cold case, but learned Monday that LE has been actively investigating it for the past seven years or so. I'll post more about it when I can.
ID - Daralyn Johnson, 9, Nampa, Murdered in 1982

If anyone thinks that law enforcement was actually investigating this case from 1982 consistently for the past 38 years, they are entitled to that opinion. I do not think that at all.

All law enforcement did was see a new technique and use it. This technique is being used by many different departments to try and crack cases. There was DNA. That was why it was solved. They either had a list of suspects or probably used genealogical DNA to narrow it down.

I just do not see the same work ethic from investigators as other people. This is why the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German has got to be such a disappointment. I think there is a lot of evidence, but they just cannot locate the person responsible. And unless they can use DNA to narrow it down or get that one tip they are looking for, every day that passes looks like a big disappointment in a case that at the beginning looked like it would be solved in only a few days.

 

[Charlot123]

sorry l, I’m following as best as I can, but what do you mean by so much anger being towards Libby? I thought no details of the murder itself were released? Have I missed something? Thanks : )

I think they mentioned in many interviews that Libby was "targeted". Also, that she fought for herself - so I assume, it was really tough. JMO.

@Mr applebee, I think LE said that the details would be known only to a murderer. I am not BG. As to the sources, they are all "mainstream - somewhere, who the heck remembers after 3 years?".

 

[ReadySet]

If you go back and read my post, you will see that I stated LE has been actively investigating it for the past seven years.

Did you read anything about the case? It doesn't appear so, otherwise you would not have made the statements you did.

Here's what really happened:
Arrest in 1982 of man based on testing of pubic hair. Bad science back then.
He was convicted and spent 18 years in prison.
Using new testing, he was exonerated and released in 2001.
For the last 20 years, the pubic hairs have been tested.
Labs in Virginia were eventually able to build a mitrochondrial profile.
Suspects were compared but no matches.
In 2013 a Boise State professor was approached about by LE to help develop a strategy.
2018, remaining samples sent to University of California.
He used "the DNA technique of sequencing to develop a SNP profile (Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms) to identify a certain stretch of DNA."
They used the profile to find a family.
They found David Dalrymple, visited him in prison where he had been since 2004, had to get a warrant to get a sample, and they found a match.
After nearly 40 years, DNA evidence connects man to the murder of a 9-year-old Nampa girl

If anyone thinks that law enforcement was actually investigating this case from 1982 consistently for the past 38 years, they are entitled to that opinion. I do not think that at all.

All law enforcement did was see a new technique and use it. This technique is being used by many different departments to try and crack cases. There was DNA. That was why it was solved. They either had a list of suspects or probably used genealogical DNA to narrow it down.

I just do not see the same work ethic from investigators as other people. This is why the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German has got to be such a disappointment. I think there is a lot of evidence, but they just cannot locate the person responsible. And unless they can use DNA to narrow it down or get that one tip they are looking for, every day that passes looks like a big disappointment in a case that at the beginning looked like it would be solved in only a few days.

 

[Charlot123]

OK

What if the BG is political figure or someone highly respected? May be harder to apprehend. JMOT

He is definitely not of the level that requires a bodyguard. Nor of the level when the person’s each step can be accounted for. Were he a political figure, he’d be visible. And BG is invisible.

Could he be someone respected, well-off? Possibly, but on a very local level.

And it brings up a point.

A secretary. A minimally important person would have a secretary to organize his day. We have options here:
- a loyal secretary is the person providing the alibi, or
- he took a day off. Either his position is indeed school-related, or, he has a kid who has a snow day at school
or,
- he found a very good reason to take a day off that no one can doubt. Here is where a GF and Valentine come in handy.

 

[somequestions]

If you go back and read my post, you will see that I stated LE has been actively investigating it for the past seven years.

Did you read anything about the case? It doesn't appear so, otherwise you would not have made the statements you did.

Here's what really happened:
Arrest in 1982 of man based on testing of pubic hair. Bad science back then.
He was convicted and spent 18 years in prison.
Using new testing, he was exonerated and released in 2001.
For the last 20 years, the pubic hairs have been tested.
Labs in Virginia were eventually able to build a mitrochondrial profile.
Suspects were compared but no matches.
In 2013 a Boise State professor was approached about by LE to help develop a strategy.
2018, remaining samples sent to University of California.
He used "the DNA technique of sequencing to develop a SNP profile (Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms) to identify a certain stretch of DNA."
They used the profile to find a family.
They found David Dalrymple, visited him in prison where he had been since 2004, had to get a warrant to get a sample, and they found a match.
After nearly 40 years, DNA evidence connects man to the murder of a 9-year-old Nampa girl

I will look it up, but all I need to know is that it took 38 years to solve it. That case is not the same as this case. I would caution everyone not to take this approach. Every case and situation is different.

I just do not think the families of Abigail Williams and Liberty German want to wait for 38 years. If it took me 38 years to solve a case and one of the parents died, for example, I would not think I did a good job. It would not give me hope for other cases.

 

[ReadySet]

Again, it looks like you didn't read my post. Or you didn't comprehend it.
I never said or even implied that the cases are the same.
I was responding to the OP who was concerned about a 30 year old case.
Why you would think I was recommending a 38 year wait to solve a case I do not know.
If you were Daralyn's parents, you would be glad, at this point in time, that the case is finally solved.
I would encourage you to re-read my post and the attached article.

I will look it up, but all I need to know is that it took 38 years to solve it. That case is not the same as this case. I would caution everyone not to take this approach. Every case and situation is different.

I just do not think the families of Abigail Williams and Liberty German want to wait for 38 years. If it took me 38 years to solve a case and one of the parents died, for example, I would not think I did a good job. It would not give me hope for other cases.

 

[somequestions]

If you go back and read my post, you will see that I stated LE has been actively investigating it for the past seven years.

Did you read anything about the case? It doesn't appear so, otherwise you would not have made the statements you did.

Here's what really happened:
Arrest in 1982 of man based on testing of pubic hair. Bad science back then.
He was convicted and spent 18 years in prison.
Using new testing, he was exonerated and released in 2001.
For the last 20 years, the pubic hairs have been tested.
Labs in Virginia were eventually able to build a mitrochondrial profile.
Suspects were compared but no matches.
In 2013 a Boise State professor was approached about by LE to help develop a strategy.
2018, remaining samples sent to University of California.
He used "the DNA technique of sequencing to develop a SNP profile (Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms) to identify a certain stretch of DNA."
They used the profile to find a family.
They found David Dalrymple, visited him in prison where he had been since 2004, had to get a warrant to get a sample, and they found a match.
After nearly 40 years, DNA evidence connects man to the murder of a 9-year-old Nampa girl

I just looked up that case. I think you are correct. Now I know why it took so long. It helps when you actually send the right person to prison for the crime and not waste numerous years of their life.

So I wanted to let you know I think you are correct. I should have looked it up.

Thanks.

 

[ReadySet]

I appreciate your response.

I just looked up that case. I think you are correct. Now I know why it took so long. It helps when you actually send the right person to prison for the crime and not waste numerous years of their life.

So I wanted to let you know I think you are correct. I should have looked it up.

Thanks.

 

[mom2chloe]

There were also rumors of a pedofile ring in the area that had some prominent members. Maybe Libby and Abby had seen or found out things from other teens and were going to tell LE. Her own uncle even admitted to liking underage girls in the texts that went viral.

Homosexual encounter by a prominent public figure in the woods or something even more nefarious. There I said it. I’ve also pondered that maybe the staging of both girls was in a non heterosexual manner rather than a religious one. Sorry if it offends anyone because that’s not the intention: i want the truth and I don’t discount the fact that this BG is capable of most anything. MOO

 

[TheVisual]

No, the original report from the witness sketch said eye color: not blue.
Also, your remark about an abandoned car was incorrect. It was a car at an abandoned building. You might want to go back and read some of the information released by the police for clarity.

But when a psychopath is raging their eye color goes dark. He/she might have blue eyes normally.

 

[mom2chloe]

But when a psychopath is raging their eye color goes dark. He/she might have blue eyes normally.

Or if was legit in full disguise mode he may have worn colored contact lenses. I do because my vision is so bad that I could not see to insert or remove without at least a tint to see them. If so, he is not likely 30 something but likely 50 plus. IMO
Someone who wore colored contacts could not be significantly dismissed in this scenario. Also IMO

 

[Charlot123]

But when a psychopath is raging their eye color goes dark. He/she might have blue eyes normally.

Also, he can wear tinted contacts.

 

[pearl]

Only LE truly knows the facts thus far in this case. We've all read the same articles, heard the same interviews and press conferences ,seen the video/audio clip of BG, and seen the same youtubes. What we do is make inferences about this crime. Each of us takes what we see, hear, etc and combine it with our prior experience and knowledge and make an educated guess. I am certainly not going to sit here at my computer and tell another poster he/she is wrong or debate with anyone about whether or not my beliefs and opinions make sense to another person. It all comes down to we do not know. I read little agreement even about what he is wearing in the video clip or what, if anything, is on his head. I enjoy Websleuths and have been here a long time. When a case goes for years without an arrest, many posters, myself included, get aggravated. I apologize if it seems to anyone that I disrespect your opinion. That is all each of us has is an opinion. I hope there is an arrest tonight, tomorrow, next week, or next year. Just as long as this is brought to justice for taking the lives of these beautiful girls.

 

[HOPE770145]

A school dropout who the combined police\/FBI forces can't find nor apprehend for 3 years might have a pretty decent IQ...




Well, we have several versions.

- the police has no clue who he is. The face on Libby's video is a pixelated blur, the voice is generic, no additional information on the recording, friends know nothing, her SM unrevealing.

OK, then assume it is a serial killer, warn everyone in the country, pull up all similar cases, do the job.
And tell people that there is a SK on the loose.

Instead, the sheriff says people the locals should not be scared, Kelsi is not scared. Moreover, the LE says he is local.

Another version - he is local but no one has seen nor heard about him. He is unrecognizable. Unusual, right? (But might happen... but then how can they state that no one is in danger? How can they know it?)

Another version - LE has some idea who he is but is lacking solid proof, needs more information, but the person has the money to hire attorneys to block such actions. This is very possible.

"Afraid"... I doubt that people with real power that would scare DC into submission live in/around Delphi. So "afraid" is not the term. But there is a situation when the LE is hindered by own mistakes made early in the course of the investigation, and does not want to discuss them; I view it as quite possible.

RL is Ron Logan whose interview I find interesting.

I think its important to note that what drives the serial killers is by no way and no means human. It is a very dark force that one would have to accept first but nevertheless it is a dark abyss of evil desires and evil intentions. Psychopaths kill for the thrill for the power the dominance the control, to bully to terrorize another human being makes their shell of an existence seem real nd alive for that moment in time. If the devil could come alive in a being itwould be when a psychopath hunts its prey. So all in all we cant view this person as human in any way shape or form. The masks they wear in their daily lives will slip and they will get caught it is only a matter of time. No they do not feel love. They can not have a family in the truest sense of the word they are not human. They live their lives imitating others. They are monsters parading as humans. If I see exaggerated kindness or charm or glib I am always on the lookout and watchful for that. I don't buy it I don't buy their masks and their fake lives with their families or career whether it be engineer dr office or politician or farmer, teacher...matters not. It is always those that people least expect to do these things. From what I gather this person IMHO probably lives there and has a life and family and all that. It is up to the people around them to do the right thing and say, hey..something is not right here, my gut is telling me something is wrong with my husband my brother or father ...I have to say something. Not be ashamed to say something because it is a heroic thing to do.

 

[cujenn81]

I'm pages behind reading, but just wanted to give you hope about this case.
On Monday, it was announced that an Idaho case from 1982, a 9 year old girl who was kidnapped on her way to school, then murdered, has been solved, using DNA. This case has been the one I most wanted to see solved, for the past 38 years. And it's not the only one that has been solved after many years. We (the public) thought that it was a cold case, but learned Monday that LE has been actively investigating it for the past seven years or so. I'll post more about it when I can.
ID - Daralyn Johnson, 9, Nampa, Murdered in 1982

That’s awesome! What great news!!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

He is definitely not of the level that requires a bodyguard. Nor of the level when the person’s each step can be accounted for. Were he a political figure, he’d be visible. And BG is invisible.

Could he be someone respected, well-off? Possibly, but on a very local level.

And it brings up a point.

A secretary. A minimally important person would have a secretary to organize his day. We have options here:
- a loyal secretary is the person providing the alibi, or
- he took a day off. Either his position is indeed school-related, or, he has a kid who has a snow day at school
or,
- he found a very good reason to take a day off that no one can doubt. Here is where a GF and Valentine come in handy.

bbm
Bodyguard - BG doesn't need, "a weapon" himself probably
Timeline of his day - BG "comes around very quick" (as LE said), nobody would ever be able to check on him every hour
Valentine - excellent day to be private and without whatever "entourage"
IMO + MOO

 

[somequestions]

I appreciate your response.

I feel for all the families that do not get answers as time passes. I do not know which is worse, missing person's or murder cases. With a missing person's case, there is at least hope that maybe they are alive, but you might never know. With a murder case, there is no hope they are alive, but at least you know whether they are alive or dead.

The show, Disappeared, did an episode titled "Final Exam" on a missing person's case from 1998. At the end of the show the father said he just wanted to know what happened to his daughter before he leaves this earth. I remembered that part.

 

[pearl]

I feel for all the families that do not get answers as time passes. I do not know which is worse, missing person's or murder cases. With a missing person's case, there is at least hope that maybe they are alive, but you might never know. With a murder case, there is no hope they are alive, but at least you know whether they are alive or dead.

The show, Disappeared, did an episode titled "Final Exam" on a missing person's case from 1998. At the end of the show the father said he just wanted to know what happened to his daughter before he leaves this earth. I remembered that part.

This reminds me of one of the saddest comments I have ever heard in my life. I had a coworker who had a daughter who was a decades-long drug addict and she died of an overdose sitting beside a highway in another part of the state. She said at least I will know where she is every night. I will never forget that.

 

[cujenn81]

I feel for all the families that do not get answers as time passes. I do not know which is worse, missing person's or murder cases. With a missing person's case, there is at least hope that maybe they are alive, but you might never know. With a murder case, there is no hope they are alive, but at least you know whether they are alive or dead.

The show, Disappeared, did an episode titled "Final Exam" on a missing person's case from 1998. At the end of the show the father said he just wanted to know what happened to his daughter before he leaves this earth. I remembered that part.

It must be the worst kind of agony. Especially for the families of victims who know their child has been killed but don’t know how he/she was killed or the location of his/her remains. I think about the family of Heather Elvis and how difficult it must be for them. At the sentencing hearing for Sidney Moorer (the man convicted of her kidnapping), her father begged him to reveal the location of her body. It was the most heartbreaking thing I’ve ever seen.