Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[Falling Down]

Crime of opportunity OR planned out?

Be gentle; I did not follow this case from the start. I typically try not to duplicate to avoid unnecessary posts/pages, but this one looks like the exception.

IMO, BG “looks” older than the second sketch; dresses older; walks older; sounds older. I also can’t shake that this is broad daylight on a Monday early afternoon and the perp just so happened to be hanging out there instead of at work or watching Jeopardy. I guess if the FBI truly thinks we are dealing with a younger individual, than he may be a drifter or work nights somewhere. What are the bigger graveyard shift plants/jobs in or near Delphi? I’m not local.

There are lots of companies that are shift operations in that region of Indiana, say within 50 miles or so, and yes people travel great distances here in the Midwest, for work. I was surprised recently to find out a lot of immigrants who live here in Fort Wayne work at the processing plant in Logansport, up the road from Delphi. So not only are there locals working shift work out there, they may even have some people traveling substantial distances for work at some of the plants out that way.

When this case first hit, I thought there might be a connection to the fact that a lot of public employees in Illinois had the day off that day, as they do every year for Lincoln's birthday. IL is a fairly short distance away from Delphi, and now that I think more about it people who live over the line into IL could very well work in the areas surrounding Delphi. IN residents may also be public employees in IL or maybe contractors, for all we know.

I think he had the day off from work.

i also think shift worker is a possibility, Bike Path Rapist in Buffalo worked the same 3rd shift for decades, at the same factory, before he was caught.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Forensics...not enough forensics that can be used to point to a SINGLE person. I believe someone growing a conscience and telling what they know is the only way to an arrest and conviction. AJMO

Wonder if the killer is someone who was very very knowledgeable about forensics by trade? That's the stone wall, not enough physical evidence to tie killer to the crime scene.

 

[drama_farmer]

I think a big part of that press conference was the almost off-handed but chilling statement that the killer could be in this room. I know a lot of posters don't agree that was even a possibility, the killer coming to the PC. I think it's a real possibility that he was. Never have I heard that before or since. The intensity of the LE in that room was palpable. IMO

Cops are human with human feelings especially when faced with such young girls being murdered while on a walk, out on a beautiful day enjoying themselves. I don't hold those emotions shown against ISP Carter. The world needs more honest and heartfelt emotion. AJMO

bbm
There are several (actually, probably more than that) ways to interpret the demeanor of ISP Carter. One perspective that keeps gnawing away at me is that his emotions and word choice were personal to his experience.

In other words, maybe HE was in the "a local did it" corner very early on, and advocated for that position. Perhaps he was outnumbered by others with a "traveling killer/kidnapper" theory of the case.
When the rest of the team came around to finally see it "his way" he may have been frustrated and angry that it took so long for them to arrive to that conclusion.

If I have the above perspective in mind, that press conference, his comment about "could be in this room" and his emotional demeanor makes sense. In short: "I told you so."
IMO

 

[sunshineray]

That's an interesting statement - what do you make of it?

Suggests to me that the perp had motivation to kill ONLY one or both of the girls. To me that suggests it isn't random but premeditated.

For instance, a spouse kills their spouse because they're having an affair, want to start anew, want the life insurance money, do not wish to pay spousal support/child support etc: so that's my idea of 'specific to the individual(s)'

The community at large need not fear this particular spouse killer will go and kill YOUR spouse too, lol - you get my drift I imagine

Now, I'd been thinking the utter opposite: this is someone who may have planned to kill someone (should really say girls/women) & perhaps where they would, or at least ready to do so at any given chance they foresaw. MAYBE they got a bee in their bonnet about Abby or Libby or both.....but they could easily have been some other girls
To me: another way of saying this is a person who could, maybe has, killed again.....

Hope this is clear...

Because if this was specific to Abby & Libby there must be a clear motivation aside from being a psycho serial killer type....

JMO

The motivation could have been very simple, just a liking to one or both of the girls or a dislike.

 

[Nerissa]

The motivation could have been very simple, just a liking to one or both of the girls or a dislike.

But that wouldn't rule out the perp taking 'a liking' to another girl, another time, maybe another place

IMO that wording of 'specific to the individuals' means there is no reason to believe it was random or this person will kill again - these gals were the target: he killed them. No reason he'll do so again, since his 'mission' is accomplished

If LE uses that kind of terminology to describe psychopathic serial killers I'll be severely disappointed.

Serial killers wish to kill, but, whether they stalk, or it's impulsive, I don't see how you can say it's only 'specific' to an individual. OKAY, sure, until there's another random person who then becomes 'specific'.....it makes the term seem meaningless to me

ETA: for instance: when LE narrowed in on Chris Watts - they didn't warn the community there was a wife & child killer on the loose....because his crime was specific to HIS wife & children....there was no danger to the public
I
take the term 'specific' with A&L in the same manner: there was a reason to kill them specifically - & it's not due to the perp being a serial killer

Who would say Ted Bundy's first kill was 'specific' then the next, then the next: that's the very definition of NOT being 'specific' - that's random & serial not specific....

JMO

 

[UnderWhelmed405]

There are lots of companies that are shift operations in that region of Indiana, say within 50 miles or so, and yes people travel great distances here in the Midwest, for work. I was surprised recently to find out a lot of immigrants who live here in Fort Wayne work at the processing plant in Logansport, up the road from Delphi. So not only are there locals working shift work out there, they may even have some people traveling substantial distances for work at some of the plants out that way.

When this case first hit, I thought there might be a connection to the fact that a lot of public employees in Illinois had the day off that day, as they do every year for Lincoln's birthday. IL is a fairly short distance away from Delphi, and now that I think more about it people who live over the line into IL could very well work in the areas surrounding Delphi. IN residents may also be public employees in IL or maybe contractors, for all we know.

I think he had the day off from work.

i also think shift worker is a possibility, Bike Path Rapist in Buffalo worked the same 3rd shift for decades, at the same factory, before he was caught.

JMO

you’re gonna make me pull up Lincoln's day school off lol
I thought msm said it was an extra snow day to burn. Either way just trying to figure out crime of opportunity or planned out and perp

 

[sunshineray]

But that wouldn't rule out the perp taking 'a liking' to another girl, another time, maybe another place

IMO that wording of 'specific to the individuals' means there is no reason to believe it was random or this person will kill again - these gals were the target: he killed them. No reason he'll do so again, since his 'mission' is accomplished

If LE uses that kind of terminology to describe psychopathic serial killers I'll be severely disappointed.

Serial killers wish to kill, but, whether they stalk, or it's impulsive, I don't see how you can say it's only 'specific' to an individual. OKAY, sure, until there's another random person who then becomes 'specific'.....it makes the term seem meaningless to me

JMO

Maybe it's tied to girl's social media. The warning of knowing what your children are doing still nags at me. It's not like the girl's just took off to the trails without asking and getting rides to and from for just certain amount of time also. Everything they did was with adults knowing where they were so that warning seems a bit out of place unless maybe something/someone online played a part in the girls choose to go there that day.

 

[Seratonin]

I feel like its 2 and LE knows just needs to have the evidence, both pictures - different ppl. Son n father, and i have 2 in mind.. identical to me.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I feel like its 2 and LE knows just needs to have the evidence, both pictures - different ppl. Son n father, and i have 2 in mind.. identical to me.

Interesting theory. What are you basing this on? I'm interested in your thought process.

 

[Seratonin]

Interesting theory. What are you basing this on? I'm interested in your thought process.

 

[carbuff]

I feel like its 2 and LE knows just needs to have the evidence, both pictures - different ppl. Son n father, and i have 2 in mind.. identical to me.

Hmmm. I wonder if in a scenario like that, it's possible that they might be sure one of the two did it, but can't prove which one it was?

There was a case here a few years back, an armed robbery, where they were able to determine it was one of two brothers, but not which brother. They arrested one of them hoping they could pressure him into implicating his brother, but no dice. As far as I know, they've never been able to bring the case to trial.

 

[Seratonin]

But once you're in Delphi--for instance, going to the packing plant--


Hmmm. I wonder if in a scenario like that, it's possible that they might be sure one of the two did it, but can't prove which one it was?

There was a case here a few years back, an armed robbery, where they were able to determine it was one of two brothers, but not which brother. They arrested one of them hoping they could pressure him into implicating his brother, but no dice. As far as I know, they've never been able to bring the case to trial.

I just wrote up what i thought and how i came to this conclusion but erased it. I dont want to go back and forth with anyone.

for me i think there is 2. The sketch is right on.

 

[carbuff]

I just wrote up what i thought and how i came to this conclusion but erased it. I dont want to go back and forth with anyone.

for me i think there is 2. The sketch is right on.

You could absolutely be right. It just made me wonder about the other possibility.

 

[Yemelyan]

I just wrote up what i thought and how i came to this conclusion but erased it. I dont want to go back and forth with anyone.

for me i think there is 2. The sketch is right on.

Probably a good decision. Not sure that type of speculation is allowed here.

 

[minazoe]

Minding your own Business.

I just want to ruminate a moment about country life and certain attitudes in the midwest and to the south that require residents to "mind their own business".

in a lot of places this is a rule and it's how you get along... you mind your own damm business, period.

so you know you might be some farmer or someone from around town and you know someone has a bad kid and maybe you've even seen that kid doing something wrong, or know a grown man who has screams coming from his house at all hours..
maybe it's his wife, maybe it's an animal..but you don't talk.

If you read here, if you think you need to mind your business and stay out of something that is a crime or could be a possible clue to this crime. If you haven't come forward because the gossip you heard is none of your business. Or the young girls visiting your neighbors house are underage but you stay out of it, now is the time to start talking.

No one will fault you, you can be anonymous and maybe even save a life...no one has to know it was you.

mOO

 

[UnderWhelmed405]

Does it have to be father & son?

The raw interviews I have listened to so far, I got a real vibe that whoever had the phone witnessed some unspeakable stuff and couldn’t believe what was happening’.

I also got the impression that the perp had DEFINITELY committed a heinous act before.

could be solo or team

completely changes the perp(s) though

crime of opportunity or planned-out

 

[cujenn81]

you’re gonna make me pull up Lincoln's day school off lol
I thought msm said it was an extra snow day to burn. Either way just trying to figure out crime of opportunity or planned out and perp

It could very well be both. The school district likely schedules several possible “snow days” each calendar year in case they need them. It makes things easier for everyone when makeup days coincide with holidays or other days when businesses close. For example, I live in a coastal area prone to hurricanes and work for the school district. If we have to make up days missed due to inclement weather, we typically make them up on Memorial Day, the day before Thanksgiving, Good Friday, etc.

 

[UnderWhelmed405]

Wait

It could very well be both. The school district likely schedules several possible “snow days” each calendar year in case they need them. It makes things easier for everyone when makeup days coincide with holidays or other days when businesses close. For example, I live in a coastal area prone to hurricanes and work for the school district. If we have to make up days missed due to inclement weather, we typically make them up on Memorial Day, the day before Thanksgiving, Good Friday, etc.

Wait, so adults get off on Lincoln’s Day now? Presidents Day. I get it. Thanks for the info! It must be a municipal thing.

 

[Andreee]

That's an interesting statement - what do you make of it?

Suggests to me that the perp had motivation to kill ONLY one or both of the girls. To me that suggests it isn't random but premeditated.

For instance, a spouse kills their spouse because they're having an affair, want to start anew, want the life insurance money, do not wish to pay spousal support/child support etc: so that's my idea of 'specific to the individual(s)'

The community at large need not fear this particular spouse killer will go and kill YOUR spouse too, lol - you get my drift I imagine

Now, I'd been thinking the utter opposite: this is someone who may have planned to kill someone (should really say girls/women) & perhaps where they would, or at least ready to do so at any given chance they foresaw. MAYBE they got a bee in their bonnet about Abby or Libby or both.....but they could easily have been some other girls
To me: another way of saying this is a person who could, maybe has, killed again.....

Hope this is clear...

Because if this was specific to Abby & Libby there must be a clear motivation aside from being a psycho serial killer type....

Maybe it's tied to girl's social media. The warning of knowing what your children are doing still nags at me. It's not like the girl's just took off to the trails without asking and getting rides to and from for just certain amount of time also. Everything they did was with adults knowing where they were so that warning seems a bit out of place unless maybe something/someone online played a part in the girls choose to go there that day.

But I seem to recall in early days of this investigation that LE looked thoroughly into their social media interactions.

 

[UnderWhelmed405]

If there’s no threat to the community, then that means it was targeted.

If it was targeted, then what were the signatures?

I still think the no not at this time was to control people freakin out & plus he just got the “i’m gonna let you answer this” 2secs beforehand


They weren’t specifically targeted imo