Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[drama_farmer]

I tried to.

@Yemelyan , in general my visual and auditory memory are equally good, but podcasts are not for me. I am a fast reader, so anything that doesn’t match the speed of written delivery of information feels slow. So I ended up listening and reading something else, at the same time, and then stopped because most of these people I had already heard. If there is a written form of the podcast somewhere, it would help more. I listened to Ives, though, because he was new to me. Point me to the text, if it exists, please. (Or, I can spend 2 hours listening to important parts, but not all of it).

Also: regardless of me, why do you think he called it odd?

A tip for anyone who would like to cut down the time necessary to listen to/watch a podcast or video.

Most podcast apps allow you to adjust the speed of the podcast, and some have a feature that skips long silences automatically.

YouTube has several speed settings. Lately, I've been listening to videos at 1.25x normal speed. It really cuts down on the time I spend consuming media, and after a while, that speed seems just "normal" to me, lol

IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I was wondering if any of you think that the Delphi killer has killed again in the last 3+ years? I kinda think he has not(although a couple of my POIs have). I would think we’d know about it if it had happened either from LE or indirectly from the news media. With “signatures” present at the Delphi crime scene, and lots of unusual elements apparently present, I feel certain LE would recognize another murder as committed by BG.
So if he hasn’t killed again, why do you think he hasn’t? Is that an indication he is in fact local and the girls were targeted? Or could it point to an experienced serial killer who knows when to lay low? I know they do sometimes take breaks but it seems to me that most serial killers just keep on killing. Just wondering everybodies’ thoughts.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

If BG wore a mask or a disguise and it was left at/near the crime scene, I would think there would be a higher chance of LE having his DNA.

JMO

~RIP M+J

 

[Ozoner]

So if he hasn’t killed again, why do you think he hasn’t? Is that an indication he is in fact local and the girls were targeted? Or could it point to an experienced serial killer who knows when to lay low? I know they do sometimes take breaks but it seems to me that most serial killers just keep on killing. Just wondering everybodies’ thoughts.

I don't think he's killed again. There could be two possible reasons: 1) He's still getting his jollies from the attention related to this case. If attention from the public or the media is one of his main objectives, he might not kill again until he feels like the public has forgotten about him. 2) He may have been spooked into self-preservation mode by the release of the video and audio of him. Knowing that LE has his image (albeit blurry) and voice certainly makes it much more likely that he could be identified, so he may not risk committing another major crime.

 

[Justice101]

Sorry, but he definitely said "odd." In the Down the Hill podcast, Robert Ives says it at 7:51 in Episode 5. Not that there is much difference between "physically strange" - which he also said - and "odd," but just for the sake of total accuracy....he called the crime scene odd.

And I don't think it was because the scene was too clean, as he also explained that there was much more physical evidence than one would think.

Have you listened to this podcast @Charlot123 ? It seems to me that some of the things you have difficulty understanding (signatures) or like to speculate about, are addressed there.

Interesting... he clearly said "the crime scene looked ODD".

ODD means peculiar, out of the ordinary, strange, weird....

The rush of POSSIBILITIES come to my mind. Could it be:
1) Broken branches laid out on the ground ODDLY spelling something out?
2) Staging... but not sexual staging... but ODD staging like the girls posed to hug each other or hug the trees?
3) The girls stacked ODDLY on top of each other like a cross?
4) Their faces hidden in leaves.

I don't know.. .just rampant guessing.. but ODD is different than disturbing.

Just my opinion... And yes, I've watched too many crime shows!

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Out of pure curiosity, I wonder what would happen if you asked ten qualified artists, unfamiliar with the case, to draw their interpretation of BG based on the video stills alone. I wonder if they would draw someone younger or older, with hair or with a hat, thin nose or bulbous nose, etc. More to the point I wonder if there would be a consensus on anything.

This is a very interesting question, @Wells. Brings to mind the Japanese proverb, Juu nin, to iro (literal translation: "10 people; 10 [different] colors"; general meaning "each to his/her own").

Indeed, the two (very) different sketches of the Delphi killer produced by LE artists are an interesting example of this "10 people; 10 [different] colors" concept: Thus, it does seem that Libby's phone video is, realistically, the *best* image of the killer that we currently have. And I very much like another poster's earlier comment (apologies, since at the moment I do not recall who it was who wrote it) that *this case will be solved when we have technological advances that sharpen up the killer's image in Libby's cell phone video...* (paraphrased).

Who knows? Maybe one of our own WS members will be the one to invent and/or to tweak current technology, sharpening it to such a point of clarity that the identity and the name of the Delphi killer will be "pinned down" exactly... How awesome would *that* be?!

 

[Charlot123]

From the beginning of this case, even when only the photo was initially circulated for the first few months and then later came the release of the first sketch, several times LE has sternly requested SM to cease and desist making online allegations.

So if the suspect in sketch #2 was known to LE at the time of the PC last year, do you really think it’s logical LE would’ve willingly facilitated yet other round of online feeding frenzy, plus accumulate another immense volume of useless tips? To have done so reeks of utter investigative incompetence, if it was anything but a genuine ask for tips from somebody who is able to assist LE in identifying the suspect IMO.

That many people in these large online groups seem to believe LE is providing clues to reveal the identity of the killer of Abby and Libby, as if their real life murders have become some sort of virtual guessing game, leaves me with a feeling of great sadness for the families of the girls and the investigators actively involved as well.

BBM

Police warn online sleuthing could hamper investigation into Delphi murders
“But one area that could hurt their investigation are online web sleuths who attach names and faces to online gossip attempting to solve the Delphi murders. Police warn that this practice could slow the case and put the public at risk.

Some online groups have upwards of 20,000 members, and accusations within the groups run rampant. Police stress, the bottom line is, if you have a tip, send it to the tip line.

“When you have people who are trying to solve this case with unorthodox methods, it could not only be detrimental to innocent people, but it could harm the case as well,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. John Perrine......

.......On social media, accusations fly, including names, pictures and where people work or go to school.

“There are some issues with defamation of character,” Perrine cautioned.

One Delphi group on Facebook has 24,000 members; another on Reddit has 30,000. Countless smaller groups exist boasting thousands of members each....”

Are we to understand that it is the fault of these 24,000 or 30,000 members that the case has not been solved?

 

[Charlot123]

10 different sketches would arise and nobody would know, whether one of them would resemble the BG, because of the blurry video still. The artists don't have better eyes than the rest of people, I think.

It is also the fact that he looks down. If you ask any of the people you know to look straight, and then down, you will notice the change in facial proportions.

 

[Charlot123]

I was curious as to whether all investigative agencies were Indiana based or were field offices from other states involved. If they had an agent(s) from a Washington State office (just an example) working with them, why that field office? Why the GBI? I realize that agencies all help each other if asked/needed, but what can be determined from the agencies involved? Did those areas have a crime with similar signatures? If so, what can be learned from those crimes that could help with this one? We don't know the signatures here but can similar crimes be found based on what we think we know about this one?

I also wonder about the billboards. Something made them decide to put them up. It seems like whatever that was - would have been pretty significant. Some days I think they were simply casting a wide net. Other days I feel they were up to remind BG of what he did. Or perhaps to remind someone close to him, "hey, he did this and you know, here's a reminder." I know you guys have talked the billboards to death. So my apologies. Ha.

FWIW I have been reading here for years. I made this account many months back and just never posted.

The presence of Washington State office would indicate - to me - that they were suspecting, SK. JMO.

WA state was made famous by TB, GRK and Anne Rule, but there are some real aspects that might attract serial killers. The abundance of trails, people liking "hiking and biking", proximity of Canadian border, lack of vitamin D, sparse population in certain areas, and possibly, some character traits of Washingtonians, such as zero interest in what neighbors might be doing. (Nada). You add to it decent computer database able to process the information, and I think it would make sense.

If it is GA, I would think, the person is local to the area, or to the Eastern/Central part of the country, and IN sent the materials to a bigger state with a big office, good computer database, more cosmopolitan environment, but also, some understanding of local mentality.

JMO. It might be totally different, and probably, is. But my intuition is, they suspect that if the guy travels, it is not to the West Coast.

 

[Yemelyan]

Interesting... he clearly said "the crime scene looked ODD".

ODD means peculiar, out of the ordinary, strange, weird....

The rush of POSSIBILITIES come to my mind. Could it be:
1) Broken branches laid out on the ground ODDLY spelling something out?
2) Staging... but not sexual staging... but ODD staging like the girls posed to hug each other or hug the trees?
3) The girls stacked ODDLY on top of each other like a cross?
4) Their faces hidden in leaves.

I don't know.. .just rampant guessing.. but ODD is different than disturbing.

Just my opinion... And yes, I've watched too many crime shows!

You're correct, he never once used the word "disturbing." However, in the next episode of the podcast, the reporter asserts that "even seasoned investigators" were disturbed by the crime scene. For whatever that is worth.

Whatever it is that was odd, Robert Ives:

1. Thinks the state police might do well to release some information about it, but recognizes it's not his decision, and

2. Expects to see at least one or two of the "odd" elements to occur at another crime scene if this particular offender kills again.

 

[Yemelyan]

I don't think he's killed again. There could be two possible reasons: 1) He's still getting his jollies from the attention related to this case. If attention from the public or the media is one of his main objectives, he might not kill again until he feels like the public has forgotten about him. 2) He may have been spooked into self-preservation mode by the release of the video and audio of him. Knowing that LE has his image (albeit blurry) and voice certainly makes it much more likely that he could be identified, so he may not risk committing another major crime.

Couldn't agree more. I don't think he has killed again. I DO think he is still fantasizing about that day. I DON'T think he expected to be videoed/recorded and that may have him re-thinking his strategy if there's a next time. If I had to speculate I'd say he may have moved away from the Carroll County/Howard County area since the crime. And if he kills again, I think it would be in a different geographic area. Possibly Illinois, Ohio or a different part of Indiana. I do think if it happens again, it will be on a trail or in a nature area.

 

[Charlot123]

You're correct, he never once used the word "disturbing." However, in the next episode of the podcast, the reporter asserts that "even seasoned investigators" were disturbed by the crime scene. For whatever that is worth.

Whatever it is that was odd, Robert Ives:

1. Thinks the state police might do well to release some information about it, but recognizes it's not his decision, and

2. Expects to see at least one or two of the "odd" elements to occur at another crime scene if this particular offender kills again.

I think that at least one of the odd elements might be released, and maybe, even shown.

I am thinking, what if these elements are material things. This means, reproducible?

Think of it. Many of us craft something. But I don’t think it is something simply knitted- it would be strange, but not disturbing.

There are some hobbies, not cheap, but attracting followers. Surely they’d know where to purchase them.

But what if it is something rare? Unique, even? Then someone would either remember seeing it, or the group of people having access to it would be small.

Or someone might understand the meaning behind it.

It could even explain what languages people speak, if the meaning is idiomatic and poorly understood.

 

[Charlot123]

You're correct, he never once used the word "disturbing." However, in the next episode of the podcast, the reporter asserts that "even seasoned investigators" were disturbed by the crime scene. For whatever that is worth.

Whatever it is that was odd, Robert Ives:

1. Thinks the state police might do well to release some information about it, but recognizes it's not his decision, and

2. Expects to see at least one or two of the "odd" elements to occur at another crime scene if this particular offender kills again.

I don't remember who interviewed DC that time, I think it was on the bridge, but I think he used wording about the crime scene that I very loosely interpreted as nauseating. Maybe someone remembers what it was? He was standing on the bridge, facing one of the sides, and talking about seeing it.

 

[Charlot123]

OK a memorialized social account for Liberty German has the heart on the beach on April 10, 2015.

I do hope that I am allowed to mention this source as it may be pertinent to the case. As far as I understand, it is not something that some Joe posted, it is what the victim posted. It would be interesting to compare, if I am allowed to post link.

Can I copy and post Liberty's heart? I want to see them side by side. It is in the sand, odd shape.

 

[Charlot123]

OK since I am not getting any "yes" to my question, anyone who might be interested please go to the memorialized social media of Liberty German and on April 10, 2015, there is a heart on the sand, next to the water, posted. Then make two photos, of blackened sand in the ground and her heart, and compare them. Not identical, but close.

Did the guy stalk her since 2015?

ETA: Where is the Deer Creek in comparison to the blackened heart on the ground?

 

[Wells]

10 different sketches would arise and nobody would know, whether one of them would resemble the BG, because of the blurry video still. The artists don't have better eyes than the rest of people, I think.

Well trained artists have a good eye for detail. While I highly doubt 10 sketches would produce any real leads, I would still be interested in the perspective.

 

[Falling Down]

You're correct, he never once used the word "disturbing." However, in the next episode of the podcast, the reporter asserts that "even seasoned investigators" were disturbed by the crime scene. For whatever that is worth.

Whatever it is that was odd, Robert Ives:

1. Thinks the state police might do well to release some information about it, but recognizes it's not his decision, and

2. Expects to see at least one or two of the "odd" elements to occur at another crime scene if this particular offender kills again.

At first blush I took Ives' statements on the podcast as carrying some weight. I no longer do, and it was something Ives brought up that made me put less weight on his words, and I think others here have brought it up.

Prosecutors here in Indiana do not lead investigations. LE leads them. At this point I don't know how to take Ives' statements about the investigation, we really don't know what he's been privy to with regards to evidence.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I don’t think that’s a heart drawn in the dirt. It looks like it’s just an area of the riverbank that has slumped naturally. Just my opinion.

Yes the person taking the picture would have been across the creek on the south side.

 

[mimimarge]

View attachment 252328

I did not notice this before. Who is the man standing there. It looks like the heart was burnt into the ground.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

I did not notice this before. Who is the man standing there. It looks like the heart was burnt into the ground.

Per the caption, the gentleman standing there is a Delphi Police detective.