Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[bradfordsleuth]

I agree with those who believe that he may have only needed to be there once or twice to become familiar.

Just another perspective here....

There are some people who are born with the ability to easily and instantly memorize directions and my dad is one of those people.

He drove a delivery truck for over 40 years and became very good at looking for and memorizing landmarks after going to places only once or twice.

As a small child (I was only four or five) and in an effort to distract me and my siblings on longish road trips to our family cottage, he made it into a game for us.
We were taught to count the number of 'tummy dropping hills' on the big country road while we were heading up north and to count all of the 'ramshackle barns' and look for the 'big sandhill' before the 'cave of trees' when we got close to our destination.

When visiting that same cottage area as an adult 20 plus years later, I tried playing the same game to find our old cottage and found it with little difficulty (no GPS for this lady back then!)

Some people also have 'photographic memories' and are able to easily memorize names, addresses, phone numbers, player #'s and can even count cards while playing poker. It is a real (but rare) talent in today's technology-based world.

On a different train of thought....

He could have a social media connection with someone who was a frequent visitor to the MHB, or even became aware of it by someone posting a photo of the bridge on social media. Lots of people enjoy taking photos in unusual places and maybe he even saw an engagement photo taken there, or he could have been researching a photographic place to film parts of a documentary.

All it needed to have taken was one person to mention to him how few people are there at that time of year and his plan could have been set in motion with a little research.

He may have been looking for a while to find an 'ideal' location if he pre-planned something like this in his demented head, and when he heard about the MHB and saw the weather forecast for February 13th, that's all it took to get him there.

I was hoping for an arrest 122 threads ago. Let's all hope that this is finally the thread.

JMO

 

[book-thinker]

I could frame this, great post.

I'll add that other than the woman walking her dog on C.R. 300, just east of where the CPS building once stood, I saw no one else walking or anyone driving, from where I turned off IN 25, up Old 25, under IN 25 and on C.R. 300 past RL's house.

Two guys with trucks were fishing at the Wilson Bridge on C.R. 425.

I wonder if the town of Delphi has a problems with homeless/ transients.
Near the town did you notice anyone with signs asking for money on any Hwy off ramps?
The reason I’m asking possibly someone living in woods or some doing drugs near the area.
Last year we had a couple pitch a tent behind our fence, it’s on a green belt.
The reason the transients were noticed my spouse sometimes checks if anyone happens to be hanging around in the greenbelt. Ended up calling the sheriff’s department.

Thank you for providing any thoughts on this subject. Your detailed description of the area has been helpful.

 

[book-thinker]

I could frame this, great post.

I'll add that other than the woman walking her dog on C.R. 300, just east of where the CPS building once stood, I saw no one else walking or anyone driving, from where I turned off IN 25, up Old 25, under IN 25 and on C.R. 300 past RL's house.

Two guys with trucks were fishing at the Wilson Bridge on C.R. 425.

I wonder if the town of Delphi has a problems with homeless/ transients.
Near the town did you notice anyone with signs asking for money on any Hwy off ramps?
The reason I’m asking possibly someone living in woods or some doing drugs near the area.
Last year we had a couple pitch a tent behind our fence, it’s on a green belt.
The reason the transients were noticed my spouse sometimes checks if anyone happens to be hanging around in the greenbelt. Ended up calling the sheriff’s department.

Thank you for providing any thoughts on this subject. Your detailed description of the area has been helpful.

 

[Cryptic]

My personal guess is relatively local. Somebody who commutes to the packing plant for work, or comes up from Lafayette for fishing/hunting/hiking/bridge looking.

Or someone who grew up in the area and only rarely comes back for a visit.

I agree.

A truly local person would probably have either been directly recognized, or identified by "connect the dots" based on local knowledge. Then factor in that the police have probably put not only the local RSOs under microscopes, but any and all local "bad news" types as well.

Using the younger age of range, I would add a formerly local, older college student- maybe even a perpetual "career student" to the list of commuters and recreational hikers, hunters, fisherman etc.

Speaking of hunters.... names of train buffs can be obtained from magazine list, hobby show attendees and mail order lists.

I wonder if say, deer hunters need to tag their animals to the extent that the name of the hunter and the location of the kill is recorded? If so, maybe run commuter hunters through the RSO data base? Or, run license plates from local bait shops through it?

 

[Steelslady]

It's time that LE releases the rest of that audio. The reason I say this is because there is not enough of a sample for folks to pick out certain distinctions in pronunciations.

Example- one of my family members pronounces California- Cal- ee- PHONE- YA. We don't know why she does that, but it's her distinct pronunciation of that word and a few others that would stand out to our family and her friends.

Also, it's hard to tell about an accent. Play the damn video entirely so people can hear him talk longer, pronounce more words, and maybe he is closer to the phone to which might be more clear than these few words. They have nothing to lose at this point.

Also, have they attempted to match his DNA to Ancestry or 23andme? GEDMATCH?

 

[Falling Down]

I wonder if the town of Delphi has a problems with homeless/ transients.
Near the town did you notice anyone with signs asking for money on any Hwy off ramps?
The reason I’m asking possibly someone living in woods or some doing drugs near the area.
Last year we had a couple pitch a tent behind our fence, it’s on a green belt.
The reason the transients were noticed my spouse sometimes checks if anyone happens to be hanging around in the greenbelt. Ended up calling the sheriff’s department.

Thank you for providing any thoughts on this subject. Your detailed description of the area has been helpful.

I stopped in other towns nearby, and Delphi that afternoon. I didn't see any transients.

Peru and Logansport are the other two towns. I'd expect some transients in Logansport with the railroad activity/yards, some train jumpers get on and off there.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I've had a long post that I've been meaning to write regarding the DNA in this case. I wanted to address some of the thoughts often posted here such as, because they haven't announced a hit in CODIS or a familial genealogy hit yet, LE doesn't have DNA to work with. Or that this must mean BG has never offended before (and the host of crazy theories that surround this thought).

First of all, I have not made a secret of my opinion that this was a sexually-oriented crime and so everything I write in this post will have that motive as the background. (This not to say that all sexually oriented offenses will yield a DNA sample, but I believe this one did.) I think that the statistics surrounding abductions/murders of females in this age group and under these circumstances bear this out but if you are of the opinion that they were killed because they knew a secret or because they saw someone cooking meth, then you may not want to read on.

I think the key to understanding the DNA in this case can be found in the following article: An Epidemic of Disbelief

This article is about serial rape and how and why sexual offenders so often get away with it.

I'll paraphrase some points that relate to the Delphi Murders, in my opinion. First of all, there is an epidemic of untested rape kits in the US. This article cites a number of perhaps 200,000 untested kits. Another source says that there are about 4,989 untested kits in Indiana alone. I would be willing to bet that the DNA match to the Delphi case is in one or more of those kits and here's why.

Serial rapists (who sometimes graduate to murder) are more common than previously believed. In 49 out of 50 rape cases the alleged assailant is never prosecuted (for various reasons). According to the article, this means that out of all the violent crimes, rape is the easiest to get away with.

In the article, you can read about how some of these offenders "prepare" for their crimes...by shaving their bodies, bringing condoms, or planning to wash the victims with water. These criminals can be very wise to DNA and prepare accordingly.

In Cleveland, a serial rapist graduated to serial murder (Anthony Sowell). After LE discovered his murders and linked them to the serial rapes, they discovered that none of his previous attacks where women survived had ever been investigated nor the rape kitse tested. Perhaps BG, too, has a trail of untested and unlinked victims that contain evidence as to his identity.

Probably most enlightening thing in the linked article is the info that HOW rapists offend and WHO they select as victims is very different than what our conventional wisdom tells us. Everyone assumes, and I've seen it on this forum many times, that rapists/murderers have a "type" of victim as well as a style or MO preference. Data tells us this is not true.

If you take away nothing else I write here, it's that a predator's reality often falls short of his fantasy. They may hunt for their "type" but who they had in mind and who they ultimately selected may not match at all. In the hunt, only one criteria mattered: she was available. One LE official is quoted in the article as saying "it's no wonder we didn't catch that many rapists because there was no pattern."

Finally, IMO the crime that may ultimately link to BG and Delphi may not be a stranger type abduction/rape. It might be an acquaintance rape, which are notoriously under-investigated. Over 80% of rapes are believed to be acquaintance rapes...which is not to say that Abby and Libby knew their attacker. Historically, investigators thought that the type of person who assaults an acquaintance is very different than one who abducts/rapes a stranger in an alley. New data from the backlog of rape kits tells us that there is not such a gap at all. Testing the acquaintance rape kits turned up links to serial offenses on strangers a high percentage of the time.

To sum up, just like genealogical linkage is imperfect because not everybody opts in, CODIS is imperfect because of all of this missing data from sexual offenses. Hopefully in time that DNA link will turn up. I choose to believe it will. Perhaps a good use of our time would be advocating our local governments for testing the backlog of rape kits in every state.

There was alot to unpack and think about in your post and with the staggering statistics that you've quoted.

I really like your idea of advocating for the backlog testing and believe that it is something that should absolutely be done and pushed to a high level of importance as soon as humanly possible (sadly, it would likely not be prioritized until Covid testing is on a drastic downswing.)

The article you attached could use a thread all on its own with the level of discussion it could generate here!

Rape can often be a crime of opportunity and your right.....often no patterns will exist with a serial rapist because the opportunities the rapist has seized are based on the level of risk the rapist is willing to take at the time. It may only take an open door, unlocked window or a person taking a secluded shortcut to prompt the act, daylight or darkness may or may not not factor in. Most importantly in my opinion, if it never gets reported, there is no pattern to be found.

I haven't discounted that SA was an ultimate motive for this crime and you have made a good case as as to how untested rape kits could factor into linking this crime to others at a later date. We could end up with all of our collective minds blown here if and when this demon gets caught and possibly connected to other crimes.

Disclaimer: DNA discussion is not my area of expertise, so I am curious if you have an opinion on the following question that I have regarding DNA and this case because it is really bugging me.

If you believe that DNA was left at the scene, what reason could LE have for not using it to generate a Parabon generated snapshot of the killer? The sketch released on April 22, 2019 was drawn by a police sketch artist and if they have his DNA, why not use it to their advantage to yield a more accurate representation that actually shows his hair colour, eye colour, etc.?

JMO and thoughts

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Does anyone have any statistics on homeless or transient people committing violent abductions or murders? Because I was under the impression that homeless people are often more likely to be at risk or endangered.

I just noticed that it crops up a lot in these threads and yet I can't recall many cases where the perpetrator/suspect was in fact a homeless or transient person. Not saying there aren't any at all, it just seems to be a statistically low occurrence in terms of probability, in my experience. JMO.

 

[Yemelyan]

If you believe that DNA was left at the scene, what reason could LE have for not using it to generate a Parabon generated snapshot of the killer? The sketch released on April 22, 2019 was drawn by a police sketch artist and if they have his DNA, why not use it to their advantage to yield a more accurate representation that actually shows his hair colour, eye colour, etc.?

JMO and thoughts

Snipped to highlight your question.

My two cents, my personal opinion, is that LE probably have had a Parabon sketch done but have chosen not to release it publicly because they believe the sketch produced by witnesses working with the police artist is better...for now.

I'm not LE but IMO Parabon sketches are more useful when you have no other witness or physically identifying traits that are known. So when you're working with absolutely nothing but DNA, it gives you something. The problem is that many of the traits that make us look unique are above the level of what genes encode. The fact that someone is overweight or underweight, that they have a distinctive hairstyle, that they have a large mole on their face, that they were born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome....Parabon analysis is not going to pick up on any of this.

When I look at Parabon computer generated sketches they all look very similar to me in terms of actual facial structure. I think in the Delphi case LE looked at all the info they had and went with what the witness (es) gave them. If things change again down the road, who knows, we may yet see another sketch. JMO.

 

[minazoe]

If he had a camera, he filmed his killings. somewhere there is a digital record .

I believe he was taunting police . This would explain the bizarre presser.

mOO

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Details, Details. Everything is relevant.
Sometimes it may impact the main issue only indirectly, but noticing those little things count. Someone being nervous, someone insisting on being located in a certain place or close to or away from some person or place. Someone making sure they've got an alibi for a certain time......
It's going to be some small piece that's going to fall into place and that solves the case.
You could find that missing piece. Sometimes you have to think outside the box.

(Additional BBM in last sentence.)

This is *it*, @California Sunset! (But it does sound so "simple", doesn't it?) Nevertheless, for many in Delphi, including LE, as well as for many here on WS, it surely seems that every detail has been covered already. But... there's still at least one detail that is, JMOO, that "*one* thing" that will "unlock" the case -- like the last piece (perhaps even an overlooked piece ---) in a huge puzzle...

ETA: Though I wouldn't call myself a RR buff who goes hiking to remote locations to see cool trestles , etc., I have been known to *ride* cool trains, and to visit the more easily accessible locations where key RR lines had a terminus/junction. With those thoughts in mind, and while reflecting on several recent very excellent posts here re: RR buffs who *do* hike some of the more "wild" areas with great vistas, etc., I tend to keep leaning toward the side of "the POI is very much a local". Can't "explain" why; just have that strong feeling "in my bones".

Probably the biggest (and most obvious) piece of evidence (all JMOO, of course) after my own gut feeling, is based on something "tangible" that @Awsi Dooger mentioned, perhaps in a post from last fall, when Awsi went to the MHB for a look-see: At that time/last fall, @Awsi Dooger himself trekked along the *bridge*... While I don't have Awsi's post in front of me at the moment, Awsi stated that (my paraphrase) it was difficult to imagine someone up there on that bridge who had not been up there *many* times previously (sorry, Awsi, I don't recall your exact wording). In other words, someone...local, or... someone who had grown up there, ***local to Delphi***. Not just someone who cased out the parking area and trailhead, and zipped up on the trestle itself. (All JMOO.)

Something to think about.

 

[Imvp2]

Having murdered 2 teens, he's a very confident serial killer. Going forward, moo, he is always looking for multiple victims. Perhaps releasing more information will help in his capture. Someone out there has their suspicions and he needs to be caught.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

There was alot to unpack and think about in your post and with the staggering statistics that you've quoted.

I really like your idea of advocating for the backlog testing and believe that it is something that should absolutely be done and pushed to a high level of importance as soon as humanly possible (sadly, it would likely not be prioritized until Covid testing is on a drastic downswing.)

The article you attached could use a thread all on its own with the level of discussion it could generate here!

Rape can often be a crime of opportunity and your right.....often no patterns will exist with a serial rapist because the opportunities the rapist has seized are based on the level of risk the rapist is willing to take at the time. It may only take an open door, unlocked window or a person taking a secluded shortcut to prompt the act, daylight or darkness may or may not not factor in. Most importantly in my opinion, if it never gets reported, there is no pattern to be found. <--- This!

(SBM)

JMO and thoughts

It's a fairly well-known fact (IMO) that many victims of "acquaintance rape" never report the crime, thus, leaving a huge set of unsolved crimes -- and an even huger set/pool of unnamed/unidentified rapists -- to whom *many* other crimes of opportunity could be linked.

It's my belief that victims of acquaintance rape are so full of shame (and some, no doubt, are full of fear, should they disclose their rapist's identity) that those rapists take a "break", as it were, then...shamelessly go on to commit *another* "crime of opportunity".

Even speedier than testing all of those hundreds of thousands of unopened rape kits across the country would be having some process whereby acquaintance rape victims could make a report without fear of retaliation or public shame (shaming of *them*, the victims -- strange as it sounds, I have heard of it happening). The present system is broken; *how* can it be fixed, and in the most expeditious, judicious manner? (Hoping those two adjectives don't sound like a "mis-match": "expeditious" and "judicious"...)

 

[Tiger Stripes]

DBM (double post; something wonky)

 

[MistyWaters]

Snipped to highlight your question.

My two cents, my personal opinion, is that LE probably have had a Parabon sketch done but have chosen not to release it publicly because they believe the sketch produced by witnesses working with the police artist is better...for now.

I'm not LE but IMO Parabon sketches are more useful when you have no other witness or physically identifying traits that are known. So when you're working with absolutely nothing but DNA, it gives you something. The problem is that many of the traits that make us look unique are above the level of what genes encode. The fact that someone is overweight or underweight, that they have a distinctive hairstyle, that they have a large mole on their face, that they were born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome....Parabon analysis is not going to pick up on any of this.

When I look at Parabon computer generated sketches they all look very similar to me in terms of actual facial structure. I think in the Delphi case LE looked at all the info they had and went with what the witness (es) gave them. If things change again down the road, who knows, we may yet see another sketch. JMO.

I agree, plus the age of the suspect is unknown age as well. A 25 slim man, clean shaven with neatly cut short hair has exactly the same DNA when he’s 45 years old, 40 pounds heavier, deeply tanned with wrinkles, a full beard and keeps his hair much longer to cover up his emerging bald spot. I think sometimes Parabon sketches are thought of as an instantaneous photo but that’s not true at all.

ETA - More -
“Researchers aren’t close to knowing all the genes that can shape a face, according to the latest studies published. There’s an additional complication in that genes alone don’t determine what a person looks like. A person can dye their hair, wear colored contacts, gain weight, or have distinct facial hair, among many other changes.

Many in the scientific community have questioned just how accurate forensic DNA phenotyping can be when so much remains unknown about how DNA shapes the face.”
SC police using DNA to sketch cold-case suspects, but some say it's not accurate enough

 

[Tiger Stripes]

DBM (WS system maybe overwhelmed; this was a "triple post"...)

 

[Yemelyan]

It's a fairly well-known fact (IMO) that many victims of "acquaintance rape" never report the crime, thus, leaving a huge set of unsolved crimes -- and an even huger set/pool of unnamed/unidentified rapists -- to whom *many* other crimes of opportunity could be linked.

It's my belief that victims of acquaintance rape are so full of shame (and some, no doubt, are full of fear, should they disclose their rapist's identity) that those rapists take a "break", as it were, then...shamelessly go on to commit *another* "crime of opportunity".

Even speedier than testing all of those hundreds of thousands of unopened rape kits across the country would be having some process whereby acquaintance rape victims could make a report without fear of retaliation or public shame (shaming of *them*, the victims -- strange as it sounds, I have heard of it happening). The present system is broken; *how* can it be fixed, and in the most expeditious, judicious manner? (Hoping those two adjectives don't sound like a "mis-match": "expeditious" and "judicious"...)

Not sure if you read the article I linked but I'd suggest it. There are vast numbers of untested rape kits from acquaintance assaults. Which suggests that these incidents are, in fact, reported *to some degree* (certainly more than "never" as you wrote). The problem is that these cases only rarely move forward through the investigative process, for many reasons, not only because of victims' understandable reluctance. If we never test the backlog there are going to be many serial offenders who continue to evolve into the monsters like what we see in Delphi. MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Not sure if you read the article I linked but I'd suggest it. There are vast numbers of untested rape kits from acquaintance assaults. Which suggests that these incidents are, in fact, reported *to some degree* (certainly more than "never" as you wrote). The problem is that these cases only rarely move forward through the investigative process, for many reasons, not only because of victims' understandable reluctance. If we never test the backlog there are going to be many serial offenders who continue to evolve into the monsters like what we see in Delphi. MOO

This, and your post upthread on the challenges with DNA testing are exceptional. Thank you for putting this problem in to perspective A national overhaul for policy and procedure for DNA collection and reporting is sorely needed.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[CluelessWonder]

I don't want to make for unnecessarily long posts by quoting other posters. But the recent post about rape crimes really was great information. Some of it was new to me. And some of it really reinforced some thoughts that I've had about the type of crime that was committed and who might have committed it.

I also strongly believe there was a sexual aspect to the crime. But it never occurred to me that the perp may have committed other offenses that may not share the same pattern/details.

For the record, I have believed for a long while all of the following:
a. the girls met with plans to talk about something that was going on in one or both of their lives
b. the girls knew the killer but did not expect to be meeting that person on that bridge
c. the killer went there out of suspicion that he was about to be outed for what he had done or tried to do
d. somehow these two girls meeting up like that caused him to panic

That leads me to believe that the person was connected to one of the girls and may have done something

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Not sure if you read the article I linked but I'd suggest it. There are vast numbers of untested rape kits from acquaintance assaults. Which suggests that these incidents are, in fact, reported *to some degree* (certainly more than "never" as you wrote). The problem is that these cases only rarely move forward through the investigative process, for many reasons, not only because of victims' understandable reluctance. If we never test the backlog there are going to be many serial offenders who continue to evolve into the monsters like what we see in Delphi. MOO

Just to clarify, @Yemelyan, my statement (as I'm recalling from last evening) was not that *no one* ever reports (acquaintance rape), but rather, that ***many*** never report...

All JMOO that (again) ***many*** (note: not "all", of course) victims are filled with shame, etc., and would rather just say...nothing -- and especially so, in a small town setting (where everyone knows everyone). Later today am looking forward to reading the article that you linked yesterday; thanks for including that citation!