Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[Tiger Stripes]

You have "key individuals" in quotation marks. Where is that quote coming from?

Hi, @Ozoner, those quotation marks were simply my own way of expressing, shall we say, the "air quotes" that are often used when *non* "offical types" (i. e., *non*-LE, etc.) are discussing the case; by no means do I have any "insider" info, etc. (Bet that made it clear as mud... )

 

[MistyWaters]

We have a loop with some frames probably cut out, too. It might generate the wrong impression. And that makes the situation more difficult. I don’t know what his gait is - all I can say is, if all his steps are like this, it is neuropathic gait, if just one, something else.

LE posted that loop so that we could see “mannerisms”, though, meaning, it should be his gait???

All this havoc, including two sketches, neither of them reminding the man on the bridge, is disorienting, not helping.

Mannerisms usually means more than gait. For example when I recognize somebody walking down the far end of the street without seeing their face, it’s probably a combination of many things involving their movement, including posture, body, head, arms etc.

You’ve probably recognized people you know in the same way, by their mannerisms.

 

[PaulaDC]

I think it could have detected that in their homes, the night before. JMO

Unless they suspect a close relative and wanted that person to be there without previous warning from family.

 

[Charlot123]

Mannerisms usually means more than gait. For example when I recognize somebody walking down the far end of the street without seeing their face, it’s probably a combination of many things involving their movement, including posture, body, head, arms etc.

You’ve probably recognized people you know in the same way, by their mannerisms.

@MistyWaters , what are mannerisms, I know. In fact, a synonym to mannerisms would be "idiosyncrasies", everything specific to the person. Not only posture or body, it could be tics, or odd gait, the way the person tugs at the hair, or unusual posture, or even specific way of carrying a purse.

DC, 2019 PC.

“We are also releasing video recovered from Libby’s phone. This video has never before been previously released. The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge. When you see the video, watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks. Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know? Remember, he is walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deteriorated condition of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties.”.

So maybe he says, "there is nothing odd to his gait". Who knows?

 

[Charlot123]

Ok, I guess I’ll “go there” to emboss my point. When I was studying crimes against women, there are a few that stand out beyond others; Bundy being one.

Sorry, I had to cut for brevity. I think the press, Ann Rule and everyone else writing about Bundy made a very bad job. They exalted his good looks, his high IQ, his success with women. And, lo and behold, Keyes was emulating Bundy. You want to associate with someone who is so charismatic.

Ann Rule never made this mistake in other books. Gary Ridgeway in her book comes across as isolated, dumped by women, having an STD, suffering from enuresis and a pack rat who buys junk at yard sales. None of these things is a stigma in my eyes, rather, a misfortune, but few want to "emulate" such a "hero".

I think the press has to be careful with not revealing the gory details of the Delphi murder, unless...unless there are more crimes on the guilty parties, but for some reason, they can not be prosecuted for them. Then maybe revealing details of the Delphi crimes would at least allow to give them maximum time for those murders.

But in no case should the participants be romanticized, like the press once did it with Bundy.

(It is bad enough that Chris Watts is having a "fan club".)

 

[Charlot123]

Can I post a link to the msm Article about the judge local judge who stepped down?

it is not directly related to this case but speaks to some creepy corruption in the area.

iirc yesterday some ws posters were speculating about a crime club or group. They may be interested in sleuthing deeper here...this would require watching the video mentioned n the article.

Not commenting on that situation, yesterday I watched "8 mm", a 1999 film, with Nicholas Cage. It is rather interesting to watch, and somehow reverberates crime clubs and real sex trafficking. It is total disregard for human life that angers me.

8mm (film) - Wikipedia

 

[Awsi Dooger]

From what I've read about the bridge, the last 100 feet or more of the southeast end of the bridge would not have been too challenging to walk, that day. The SE end doesn't have the missing tied and what have you, compared to the middle of it and the northwest end.

I don't think his gait shows much of anything, I think he pivoted towards the girls, made more of a diagonal approach towards them those last roughly 70 feet of his walk before the abduction.

JMO

It is a combination of variables. The beginning of the bridge has the obvious missing plank and is most worn overall. You're asking yourself, "Am I really going to do this?" Several other planks in that area are narrower than the norm due to wearing away. And that is logical due to traffic realities. I'm sure many people walk onto onto the early stage for pictures or consideration, before turning around and going back.

Immediately after that you are over the creek itself. Those planks are still bad shape and well spaced, plus you really feel isolated given no trees on either side for the foreseeable. Now you've basically committed. If there's any wind it is going to have greatest impact in that area.

Middle of the bridge you start to get a feel for things and conditions seemingly improve. Then out of nowhere some planks are shockingly soft. I wobbled twice in that area. I have seen other videos notably Greeno's girlfriend when she reacts to squishy planks in that area.

It remains that way for a long time. The trees first close in on the left side once you're beyond Deer Creek. I remember settling on right center of the bridge as most secure. I really think that's all we're seeing from Bridge Guy. From prior crossings he probably already had chosen the right center path. Then he makes a brief and mostly meaningless one path detour to the left while avoiding a problematic area in the planks.

I do not believe that crossover was intentional in the slightest in regard to Abby or Libby. It's the only 1.8 seconds we have so too much is made of everything. He's still too far away on a narrow bridge to be angling toward anyone. If we had footage of the following steps I wouldn't doubt if he reverted one path rightward to the preferred path.

The end of the bridge assumes greater normalcy, not quite like a dirt footpath but close enough. The dread is long gone. Planks plenty close and no longer squishy. The trees reappear on both sides and most significantly the trees circling behind the bridge also become prominent. I always use the term funnel to describe that area because it is indeed the feel. Instead of isolated over the creek on gapped planks now there is solid footing with the goal in sight.

Nobody should be surprised in the slightest that Bridge Guy is moving quickly and not particularly troubled in that area. It's still normal to look down but I suspect if we had another second or two he'd have looked up. The timing and distance of Libby's video are so darn rotten luck sickening. Merely 10-15 feet closer and I think he's identified and nailed.

This Julie Melvin video from 3 weeks after the murders depicts the end of the bridge and that funnel aspect. Go to about 4:12 for that final 100 feet. I tried to link it there directly but for some reason it wouldn't take:

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[Awsi Dooger]

I think a big piece in solving this is knowing why Libby started recording the video. Was she recording something else ans happed to film him? Did something alarm? Did they recognize him? One final thought...does LE know why she started recording? Sorry if this had already been discussed but it nags at me. I have followed this case from day one and it just nags at me. What would make a teen start recording a man walking towards them? Is there something about what made them record him that can give a clue to who he is? Something odd, funny or notable?
MOO

I think Libby was filming Abby as she finished her first crossing of Monon High. Then Bridge Guy slipped into the bottom right corner of the video at the very end. Or maybe the end as in before Libby slipped the phone into her pocket while it was still running.

If we saw the video in its entirety I think it would be beyond shocking how tiny and insignificant Bridge Guy would be. That's why it's so blurry. It would look like nothing more than a stranger in an irrelevant corner of a family video or selfie. I doubt he occupies 10% of the screen and it's likely considerably lower than that. Abby would look like Attack of the 50 Foot Woman compared to Bridge Guy down in that corner.

I think Libby did continue filming long enough to intentionally capture Bridge Guy in the corner. But as others including Mike Patty have said I'm confident it was simply a matter the watching the video amongst themselves later and seeing them weird stranger who somehow thought it was kosher to cross the bridge at the same time they were.

 

[Andreee]

DBM

 

[Jeeps22]

<snip>I think Libby did continue filming long enough to intentionally capture Bridge Guy in the corner. But as others including Mike Patty have said I'm confident it was simply a matter the watching the video amongst themselves later and seeing them weird stranger who somehow thought it was kosher to cross the bridge at the same time they were.<snip>

I'm unable to track down the post that you are replying to here, so I'll reply to your snipped quote. What would make a couple of young girls judge a man to be suspicious or threatening enough to take a video of him? It's been discussed before somewhere on the forums that as females, we have an innate, sharp sense of danger around us. Especially those of us who grew up in an environment of abuse. We never feel safe. We never forget. Girls who are taught to pay attention to this gift are more likely to act as Libby did. Something about him set off her alarms, and I'm going to guess that it was his presence behind her best friend, high on a bridge, with no one in sight to see them or hear them if they called out for help. In this day and age, I think that most men understand that it's just a bad idea to put yourself in any situation that could arouse suspicion as to your intentions when young girls are involved. Libby felt encroached upon. She knew that he shouldn't be there. She could see that he was advancing on them. She did what she did to establish a record in case the worst thing happened. What a brave young girl.

 

[Jeeps22]

Not commenting on that situation, yesterday I watched "8 mm", a 1999 film, with Nicholas Cage. It is rather interesting to watch, and somehow reverberates crime clubs and real sex trafficking. It is total disregard for human life that angers me.

8mm (film) - Wikipedia

I went to the theater to see this one back when it was first released. I've never left a theater feeling so unsettled and disturbed as I did that day. To know that this sub-culture of evil really exists is almost too much to imagine. Seeing it played out was something I should have taken a pass on.

 

[Jeeps22]

I don't post here often, but I do stop by and read this thread for all of it's great, well-written, and informative submissions. I hope I am not breaking a rule regarding name mentions and I apologize if I am. Since he's currently in custody and it's a matter of public record, I hope it's safe to ask a question about the Youtube channel host and convicted felon, Anthony Greeno. If I read correctly, he's sitting in jail over a delinquent child support charge. Tippecanoe County, arrested in November of 2017? Was he released and rejailed? Has he been in custody since November of 2017? I'm trying to get his timeline straight and I'm confusing myself. I'd appreciate any help and feedback you have to offer. Thank you!

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm unable to track down the post that you are replying to here, so I'll reply to your snipped quote. What would make a couple of young girls judge a man to be suspicious or threatening enough to take a video of him? It's been discussed before somewhere on the forums that as females, we have an innate, sharp sense of danger around us. Especially those of us who grew up in an environment of abuse. We never feel safe. We never forget. Girls who are taught to pay attention to this gift are more likely to act as Libby did. Something about him set off her alarms, and I'm going to guess that it was his presence behind her best friend, high on a bridge, with no one in sight to see them or hear them if they called out for help. In this day and age, I think that most men understand that it's just a bad idea to put yourself in any situation that could arouse suspicion as to your intentions when young girls are involved. Libby felt encroached upon. She knew that he shouldn't be there. She could see that he was advancing on them. She did what she did to establish a record in case the worst thing happened. What a brave young girl.

I agree and speculation only but it sure would seem likely Libby took far more photos or videos of Abby on the bridge than just the one sent via snapchat. Those photos just haven’t been released IMO.

Two teens, enjoying themselves on a warm day, having fun, Abby posing in various goofy ways, Libby taking photos of her, both thinking they were alone. Suddenly a man all by himself begins walking towards them on the bridge, somebody who Libby realized must’ve also been watching them sight unseen as they were doing their fun and creative photo thing high up on the bridge deck. Libby was a remarkably talented and ingenious photographer, noticing some of her instagram photos. So it’s not to difficult to imagine her becoming uncomfortable as he continued to walk towards them. She was indeed brave and it’s still hard to grasp how her 6th scene was indeed so right that the worst that could happen indeed did.

JMO

 

[IceIce9]

I went to the theater to see this one back when it was first released. I've never left a theater feeling so unsettled and disturbed as I did that day. To know that this sub-culture of evil really exists is almost too much to imagine. Seeing it played out was something I should have taken a pass on.

Me too. I seldom went to the theater to see movies so 8 mm stands out in my mind.

 

[Jeeps22]

I agree and speculation only but it sure would seem likely Libby took far more photos or videos of Abby on the bridge than just the one sent via snapchat. Those photos just haven’t been released IMO.

Two teens, enjoying themselves on a warm day, having fun, Abby posing in various goofy ways, Libby taking photos of her, both thinking they were alone. Suddenly a man all by himself begins walking towards them on the bridge, somebody who Libby realized must’ve also been watching them sight unseen as they were doing their fun and creative photo thing high up on the bridge deck. So it’s not to difficult to imagine Libby becoming uncomfortable as he continued to walk towards them. She was indeed brave and it’s still hard to grasp how her 6th scene was indeed so right that the worst that could happen indeed did.

JMO

You nailed it with the part about thinking they were alone, and then here comes this man toward them, putting them in an obviously precarious position. A disposition. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Jeeps22]

Me too. I seldom went to the theater to see movies so 8 mm stands out in my mind.

I kept asking myself why I paid to see it. I guess it gets the information of this evil out to the masses. Hang on tight to your people. In a beautiful world, these things exist.

 

[tresir2012]

Judge resigns after video of him with escort is posted online

Has this been posted? This is the judge who jailed RL. I didn't realise he had also been a prosecutor. Posting it here in case there are any further revelations. He was pictured at the April PC.

 

[Charlot123]

I went to the theater to see this one back when it was first released. I've never left a theater feeling so unsettled and disturbed as I did that day. To know that this sub-culture of evil really exists is almost too much to imagine. Seeing it played out was something I should have taken a pass on.

Well, now we know more than in 1999. We know about sex trafficking, of minors and adults. So I think, the film is not as shocking now - because we realize how close it is. In 1999, we probably thought rich guys were traveling to Thailand for this...


Three things I remember, "she was a simple , one out of many". "Why did he (*the rich deceased man*) order the movie? (*where a person was killed*). Because he could!" And finally, when the Machine, a merciless killer, turns out to be an average-looking guy, "no one raped me, no one beat me up, I had a perfect childhood. I was just born this way".

This all is remembered in response of trafficking information that may be related to this case, and maybe not, but it pops up on the internet regularly, in different forms. All these clubs need to be taken down. These are not lone killers - these are clubs. All these guys need to be exposed. It is the face of modern enslavement of vulnerable women and men.

Too many of the perps are allowed to go free. They raise kids. They can't pass on good morals to the kids. They have none. It is like leprosy.

I still don't know the motive for the girls' killing. But if it is related to something like it, then, likely, BG was a hired assassin. This is why - DNA exists, but there is no match.

 

[sunshineray]

I agree with you: whether the victim is still alive make all the difference. In the Closs case, the details should be kept private unless the victim chooses to disclose them. In a case where the victim is dead, everything should be out in the open.
-
People should not be allowed to minimize and sugar coat was has happened. People should be forced to face, and address, the full brutality of crimes like this one. Otherwise, the killers and victims turn into abstractions and nobody bothers to do anything to drive change.

Thank you Ozoner, you said so easily in one text what I've struggled in so many to articulate.

 

[sunshineray]

In the clinic where I worked several years ago, we had a patient whose son had gone missing. She came to our clinic several times a week for treatments so we knew her well.

He was missing for over 6 weeks, and there were many searches. Finally when he was found his body was in such bad shape it couldn’t be identified until autopsy.

The next day, the front page of the newspaper featured the story that he was found. And in the article it detailed the fact that much of his body had been consumed by animals, including his entire face, so an autopsy had been required to identify him.

I will never forget how shocked I was to read that, and how devastated she was. Definitely information that did not need to be released as it caused a great deal of grief to the family.

Agree...just sensationalizing. My brother was found dead well after death and thankfully the papers did not go into the obviously expected details.