Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[minazoe]

I was watching a crime thing about Etan Patz. (famous missing child case). his mother went to visit with parents from the Evansdale case, and the more I saw the details in the case, the community, the kidnapping and murder of two girls with an eerie almost bizarre similarity.
the victims found near a bridge, even the names of the girls.

I'm sorry, I know they don't want people to panic, but really this is a serial killer, the cases are serial murders and in my opinion have more than a 75% chance of being connected.

I really think our killer killed those girls in Evansdale, and again no known suspects..mOO

 

[JnRyan]

So CrimeDoor is free to see cases, but 'to open a door' there is a $1.99 charge or a monthly rate of $4.99. I'm all for finding more avenues to get the case out there, but this just doesn't seem ethically right to me. But that's just my point of view. Others may have a different take on it. I'll pass on this one.
This Augmented Reality App Aims to Solve Cold Cases — and Change How True Crime Stories Are Told

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I was watching a crime thing about Etan Patz. (famous missing child case). his mother went to visit with parents from the Evansdale case, and the more I saw the details in the case, the community, the kidnapping and murder of two girls with an eerie almost bizarre similarity.
the victims found near a bridge, even the names of the girls.

I'm sorry, I know they don't want people to panic, but really this is a serial killer, the cases are serial murders and in my opinion have more than a 75% chance of being connected.

I really think our killer killed those girls in Evansdale, and again no known suspects..mOO

I don’t necessarily think the Evansdale case and Delphi are connected but I do think we’re probably dealing with a serial killer for the simple fact that no one has come forward to identify him. It’s a very small town and no matter how blurry that photo/video is, no matter how protective his family is, or how scared they might be of him, or even how incompetent LE is, someone should recognize this guy. More than one person ought to recognize this guy. Heck, LE ought to recognize him if he’s local. Four years out, nothing. Throw in that the prosecutor talked about “signatures”, and I don’t think he’s local.
All that being said, if he’s a serial killer, why have no other killings been connected to him, before or since? I could see him early on laying low because of the video and audio. He probably relaxed some after the first sketch came out since supposedly, we’re told now, that’s not him. Then the 2019 presser and all that drama. That probably made him cautious again for a short while because it stirred interest again, not necessarily because the information revealed was concerning to him. By now, he’s probably living worry-free. So why no follow-up murder? He could be so good at it LE is not making the connection, like Israel Keyes. He could be so bad at it, he’s given it up, at least for an extended time. Rethinking his strategy.
I don’t know which is right. I just want it solved and my confidence of that ever happening is waning.
Just my thoughts.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So CrimeDoor is free to see cases, but 'to open a door' there is a $1.99 charge or a monthly rate of $4.99. I'm all for finding more avenues to get the case out there, but this just doesn't seem ethically right to me. But that's just my point of view. Others may have a different take on it. I'll pass on this one.
This Augmented Reality App Aims to Solve Cold Cases — and Change How True Crime Stories Are Told

It doesn’t sit well with me either. Even if you look past the ethical questions, I don’t see any way this app would help solve a crime. It’s just a gimmick. Sadly, I think it’s useless.

 

[sandy_80]

I am wondering how making a 3d walk through in which you can walk to and around a figure on the bridge can make you solve a case or even publicise it ? ..it was already done on youtube many times.. there no secret hidden answers in this toy ...

 

[JnRyan]

I don’t necessarily think the Evansdale case and Delphi are connected but I do think we’re probably dealing with a serial killer for the simple fact that no one has come forward to identify him. It’s a very small town and no matter how blurry that photo/video is, no matter how protective his family is, or how scared they might be of him, or even how incompetent LE is, someone should recognize this guy. More than one person ought to recognize this guy. Heck, LE ought to recognize him if he’s local. Four years out, nothing. Throw in that the prosecutor talked about “signatures”, and I don’t think he’s local.
All that being said, if he’s a serial killer, why have no other killings been connected to him, before or since? I could see him early on laying low because of the video and audio. He probably relaxed some after the first sketch came out since supposedly, we’re told now, that’s not him. Then the 2019 presser and all that drama. That probably made him cautious again for a short while because it stirred interest again, not necessarily because the information revealed was concerning to him. By now, he’s probably living worry-free. So why no follow-up murder? He could be so good at it LE is not making the connection, like Israel Keyes. He could be so bad at it, he’s given it up, at least for an extended time. Rethinking his strategy.
I don’t know which is right. I just want it solved and my confidence of that ever happening is waning.
Just my thoughts.

Good points. I go back and forth on whether or not this is a serial killer, but I tend more toward serial killer. I do firmly believe he is a serial OFFENDER, if not a killer. I wonder why, if he is a serial killer, he hasn't been caught. One point you bring up that I agree with is that he was not currently living in the area at the time and still does not. Israel Keyes is a good example. Ted Bundy is another example as he committed some of his crimes outside his area of residence. (Wasn't Keyes a "follower" of Bundy's methods? I seem to remember something about that point.)

This killer didn't leave his victims a short distance from the trail, but some distance away on private property. Did he not expect them to be found so soon? Has he killed before/since and his victims not found because LE lists them as missing without clear information as to where they had gone or last known to be? Could this killer have reevaluated what he did in Delphi and said to himself he has to do better at hiding his victims?

 

[JnRyan]

It doesn’t sit well with me either. Even if you look past the ethical questions, I don’t see any way this app would help solve a crime. It’s just a gimmick. Sadly, I think it’s useless.

Another point that occurred to me is hearing LE - notably the lead ISP investigator, 1st Sgt Holeman - being critical of posting theories or reenactments. He stated that were not on the right track or something to that effect. I thought it was in the 14 August 2017 interview, but I looked at that transcript and it wasn't in that interview.

 

[JnRyan]

I was watching a crime thing about Etan Patz. (famous missing child case). his mother went to visit with parents from the Evansdale case, and the more I saw the details in the case, the community, the kidnapping and murder of two girls with an eerie almost bizarre similarity.
the victims found near a bridge, even the names of the girls.

I'm sorry, I know they don't want people to panic, but really this is a serial killer, the cases are serial murders and in my opinion have more than a 75% chance of being connected.

I really think our killer killed those girls in Evansdale, and again no known suspects..mOO

Speaking of that transcript by @Spellbound of the 14 August 2017, here is what ISP 1st Sgt Holeman says about Evansdale (Thread #65, post #186):

A[Alexis McAdams]: [9.21] And personality traits in a person like this, and that's I think what people have thought about before and maybe him, if there was just one person, is this the guy that was able to get both of these little girls in the woods and do these, you know, brutally murder them, do you think he possibly has done this before?

H[Holeman]: Uh, he could be, you know, that's, again, just kind of our theory or speculation, we have no evidence that he's done it again. But we do keep that in mind. We do check with other states to see if they have anything close; and obviously the case in Iowa is the closest; but they don't even know the cause of death in that one because they didn't find the victims until later. So, it's hard to compare. But it is similar, but, so, we have taken that into consideration as well, and we have investigated that. We've been in contact with Iowa and they have been in contact with us, and we've discussed that, but nothing else seems to be popping up around the nation that is similar to this. But that doesn't mean he is gonna kill everybody the same way every time, so (shrugs), we don't know.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

 

[steeltowngirl]

If there is additional video or audio of BG, it needs to be released in its entirety and in its original, uncropped format.

Take whatever risk is associated with full release of what they have.

This has gone unsolved long enough.

jmo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Good points. I go back and forth on whether or not this is a serial killer, but I tend more toward serial killer. I do firmly believe he is a serial OFFENDER, if not a killer. I wonder why, if he is a serial killer, he hasn't been caught. One point you bring up that I agree with is that he was not currently living in the area at the time and still does not. Israel Keyes is a good example. Ted Bundy is another example as he committed some of his crimes outside his area of residence. (Wasn't Keyes a "follower" of Bundy's methods? I seem to remember something about that point.)

This killer didn't leave his victims a short distance from the trail, but some distance away on private property. Did he not expect them to be found so soon? Has he killed before/since and his victims not found because LE lists them as missing without clear information as to where they had gone or last known to be? Could this killer have reevaluated what he did in Delphi and said to himself he has to do better at hiding his victims?

I just finished reading a book on Keyes and he did study Bundy’s methods. One thing he incorporated was Bundy’s spreading his murders over large areas and switching up how he killed so it was hard for LE to connect the dots. Keyes took it a step further and spread things all over the country in small towns he had thoroughly researched beforehand from Alaska. Whose to say the Delphi killer hasn’t learned some lessons from Keyes like Keyes did from Bundy.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If there is additional video or audio of BG, it needs to be released in its entirety and in its original, uncropped format.

Take whatever risk is associated with full release of what they have.

This has gone unsolved long enough.

jmo

I absolutely agree. After four years, continuing to withhold everything looks more stubborn than helpful. Like you said....what do they have to lose? Have LE keep a few things to itself and release it all.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I just finished reading a book on Keyes and he did study Bundy’s methods. One thing he incorporated was Bundy’s spreading his murders over large areas and switching up how he killed so it was hard for LE to connect the dots. Keyes took it a step further and spread things all over the country in small towns he had thoroughly researched beforehand from Alaska. Whose to say the Delphi killer hasn’t learned some lessons from Keyes like Keyes did from Bundy.

I think, he studied the mistakes of this type of killers and why they got caught at the end. He knows too well, how to avoid those mistakes (although DC said at the April 2019-PC "you made mistakes") and he knows well, how to "create" a confusing, ambiguous crime scene. IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

So why no follow-up murder?
He could be so good at it LE is not making the connection, like Israel Keyes.

bbm
^^ This probably, IMO.

 

[minazoe]

the boldness of his escapade is the escalation and the killer wanted attention or he would not have set the crime out in the open. Bundy too went for shock and awe , pummeling girls in their beds and fleeing the scene.

Israel Keyes was extremely secretive and very very sick.

there are the wide range of victims in the Keyes murders but he went to great effort to hide them . he says he didn't kill children but who would believe a thing he said.

Bundy, not so much..but he did kill a child of 12 and some speculate that he was responsible for an older woman being strangled in her front yard with her bathrobe tie. that may have happened at around 14 if I remember correctly.

the night stalker ran around kidnapping and raping children while he simultaneously ran around murdering adults in their bedrooms at night.

maybe the problem is looking for similar cases. maybe he switches things up.

one thing is certain, I hate this man and want him arrested.

mOO

 

[Skully]

If I lived there, and I thought that this guy grew up there, I would be finding a way to look at every single graduation photo for all the schools in that area and then digging into the DMV or any other database that would help me find anyone that looks like that YBG. It would take some time but I would find someone in that PD to do it. There isn't that many people that live there, maybe 4,000? It can be done. Just say'n.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If I lived there, and I thought that this guy grew up there, I would be finding a way to look at every single graduation photo for all the schools in that area and then digging into the DMV or any other database that would help me find anyone that looks like that YBG. It would take some time but I would find someone in that PD to do it. There isn't that many people that live there, maybe 4,000? It can be done. Just say'n.

What, if it would be the wrong schools in the wrong area? Wasted time and effort, unfortunately. Maybe, LE have to overthink their reason, why they are placing BG absolutely near Delphi?

 

[Yemelyan]

If I lived there, and I thought that this guy grew up there, I would be finding a way to look at every single graduation photo for all the schools in that area and then digging into the DMV or any other database that would help me find anyone that looks like that YBG. It would take some time but I would find someone in that PD to do it. There isn't that many people that live there, maybe 4,000? It can be done. Just say'n.

It's my understanding that many of the Delphi high school yearbooks are available for public viewing online so some enterprising amateur sleuths have already been scouring them for this purpose. This has been going on for a few years now.

In my personal opinion, it's unlikely that either sketch is accurate enough to be able to link it to a yearbook photo, DMV photo, or indeed any kind of photo. It's a pretty low percentage chance that when/if BG is found he'll look identical (or even much) like the composite sketch.

The best chance for someone making a link between the sketch and an actual suspect is for a person to realize that someone who they know shares some superficial features with the sketch AND has other behavior (can't account for whereabouts that day/time, never want to talk about the case or always want to talk about it, got rid of clothes resembling what BG wore, etc) that is suspicious. This is what police sketches are designed for. Not for matching with databases of strangers' faces. IMO.

 

[JnRyan]

the boldness of his escapade is the escalation and the killer wanted attention or he would not have set the crime out in the open. Bundy too went for shock and awe , pummeling girls in their beds and fleeing the scene.

Israel Keyes was extremely secretive and very very sick.

there are the wide range of victims in the Keyes murders but he went to great effort to hide them . he says he didn't kill children but who would believe a thing he said.

Bundy, not so much..but he did kill a child of 12 and some speculate that he was responsible for an older woman being strangled in her front yard with her bathrobe tie. that may have happened at around 14 if I remember correctly.

the night stalker ran around kidnapping and raping children while he simultaneously ran around murdering adults in their bedrooms at night.

maybe the problem is looking for similar cases. maybe he switches things up.

one thing is certain, I hate this man and want him arrested.

mOO

I don't remember anything about an older woman when he was 14. But some have speculated that Bundy may have murdered Ann Marie Burr when he was 14. He lived in the same area and he was their paperboy. Also, a size 6 footprint was found near the crime scene leading LE to believe her abductor/killer was a teenager. Bundy has denied it saying he would not hurt a little girl.

Disappearance of Ann Marie Burr - Wikipedia

Most of Bundy's early victims were well hidden.

As for Bundy and Keyes stating they wouldn't kill children, such persons don't fare well in the prison system - by both the other inmates and the guards. So a denial could be self preservation in my opinion.

 

[minazoe]

no he killed that little girl for sure...and yes he hid many victims..but he also did his sorority house bloodbath so...mOO

added : yeah they deny their doings with children... kiss of death in prison.

so note to bg, if you read here...

 

[JnRyan]

If I lived there, and I thought that this guy grew up there, I would be finding a way to look at every single graduation photo for all the schools in that area and then digging into the DMV or any other database that would help me find anyone that looks like that YBG. It would take some time but I would find someone in that PD to do it. There isn't that many people that live there, maybe 4,000? It can be done. Just say'n.

I'm hoping LE did that. However, my theory is he was there earlier, like middle school, or he was a frequent visitor to a relative in the area during grades 7-9. Why those grades? He would be old enough to travel the trails - like Abigail and Liberty - and yet still young enough that 10-15 years later he could have changed enough that the locals would not make the connection. If he was visiting a relative, that relative might have moved out of the area, passed away or living in an assisted living facility. Just my theory. But I would hope LE covered all the bases by looking at the high school yearbooks. The only 2 high schools I can find in the county are Carroll High School in Flora with enrollment of 550 for grades 9-12 and Delphi Community HS with an enrollment of 500. That's not a lot considering the size of other schools.

Carroll High School (Flora, Indiana) - Wikipedia
Delphi Community High School - Wikipedia

Some public libraries have copies of high school yearbooks. I know the public library in our town of 25K had them. I wonder if some amateur sleuths have already been through them if that is the case.