Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[JnRyan]

Maybe, LE have to overthink their reason, why they are placing BG absolutely near Delphi?

Good point. Here we are discussing Keyes and Bundy and those are two individuals who may have not been past residents in the area where they abducted their victims and the isolated areas where they may have killed the victims and placed their bodies. They may have merely scouted out the areas prior to committing the crimes.

I tend to think this killer had a tie to the Delphi area in his past, but I can see the other point of view as well.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The best chance for someone making a link between the sketch and an actual suspect is for a person to realize that someone who they know shares some superficial features with the sketch AND has other behavior (can't account for whereabouts that day/time, never want to talk about the case or always want to talk about it, got rid of clothes resembling what BG wore, etc) that is suspicious. This is what police sketches are designed for. Not for matching with databases of strangers' faces. IMO.

bbm
^^ This, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

In my personal opinion, it's unlikely that either sketch is accurate enough to be able to link it to a yearbook photo, DMV photo, or indeed any kind of photo. It's a pretty low percentage chance that when/if BG is found he'll look identical (or even much) like the composite sketch.

bbm

Pretty low percentage chance, BUT possible, IMO. One hasn't to think at all, IMO, that it can't be him, if the sketch #2 is just looking like a photo of BG. You have to be alarmed, if the sketch is looking like a person and if in addition you know, that person would have had more opportunity than someone else to roam the area and would have had more ways than someone else to obfuscate the fact. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

For refreshing .....

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation

LIBERTY GERMAN | Federal Bureau of Investigation
Submit a Tip:
Anyone with information is requested to contact the Delphi Homicide Tipline at 844-459-5786. All information will be taken and followed up on by investigators. All callers may remain anonymous. Tips can also be submitted online via [email protected].
You may also contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate.

Field Office: Indianapolis
-.-.-
I wonder, if it is common to offer addressing information to "the nearest American Embassy/Consulate"?

 

[Distantobserver]

I'm hoping LE did that. However, my theory is he was there earlier, like middle school, or he was a frequent visitor to a relative in the area during grades 7-9. Why those grades? He would be old enough to travel the trails - like Abigail and Liberty - and yet still young enough that 10-15 years later he could have changed enough that the locals would not make the connection. If he was visiting a relative, that relative might have moved out of the area, passed away or living in an assisted living facility. Just my theory. But I would hope LE covered all the bases by looking at the high school yearbooks. The only 2 high schools I can find in the county are Carroll High School in Flora with enrollment of 550 for grades 9-12 and Delphi Community HS with an enrollment of 500. That's not a lot considering the size of other schools.

Carroll High School (Flora, Indiana) - Wikipedia
Delphi Community High School - Wikipedia

Some public libraries have copies of high school yearbooks. I know the public library in our town of 25K had them. I wonder if some amateur sleuths have already been through them if that is the case.

I wonder if looking at high school yearbooks is the answer. Perhaps reunion photos might be more informative. Who is at the reunion and who is not there. Who has that body type/build some years on?

 

[Maplesyrup]

I mentioned this before and I am going to mention it again. LE added the word "guys" for a reason in the "down the hill" recording, and I think it is because of the unique way BG says "guise...down the hill." He does not say "guys" like most people do "guyz"...his version sounds like "guise"...the "s" on the end is drawn out. It is characteristic of BG and something I suspect caught their [LE] attention at least that one time, if not additional times in the taped conversation. There is one individual in Delphi that I have heard speaking during an interview who pronounces his "s" at the end of words the same way. He was in a prominent position in the community. He no longer works in that prominent position in the community. Someone else on another discussion board mentioned something odd about that individual in relation to something he did/said *before* the girls were identified. All IMO.

 

[minazoe]

things that niggle.

was it bg's plan to kidnap the girls and take them to his vehicle and leave the scene, but they ran across the river and fought and everything else and he ended up murdering them at the scene?

or

was it always the plan to kill them at the park?

did bg drive around with the phone or was it just pinging on several towers simultaneously?

did bg drive around with one of the girls and return her later? does the TOD match for both
girls?

did bg ever have the phone in his possession or was it cast off in the chaos?
was the phone wiped clean?

can signatures be misinterpreted and not really signatures? do signatures always mean the murderer is experienced and will repeat methods used? like peculiar knots etc.

was their false evidence planted at the scene? this would indicate a high degree of planning.

mOO

 

[minazoe]

I mentioned this before and I am going to mention it again. LE added the word "guys" for a reason in the "down the hill" recording, and I think it is because of the unique way BG says "guise...down the hill." He does not say "guys" like most people do "guyz"...his version sounds like "guise"...the "s" on the end is drawn out. It is characteristic of BG and something I suspect caught their [LE] attention at least that one time, if not additional times in the taped conversation. There is one individual in Delphi that I have heard speaking during an interview who pronounces his "s" at the end of words the same way. He was in a prominent position in the community. He no longer works in that prominent position in the community. Someone else on another discussion board mentioned something odd about that individual in relation to something he did/said *before* the girls were identified. All IMO.

there is a local hiss to his voice. think .. mizzurah, keanzis...it's pretty common...wiscansen..
ohiya..speaking with clenched teeth or very little movement of the mouth..

he's midwestern, no doubt.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

The Delphi yearbooks have been sleuthed by many for a couple years now. They’re available online if anyone else wants to dig. Remember: the sketches are meaningless, so you’re essentially looking for BG (with grainy footage/stills) at a younger age, with likely clearer visuals.

There were adults there that day. There were also other youths there that day. It was a inclement weather day on a weekday.

IMO, I don’t buy (at least yet) the serial killer theory. If anything, I’d guess the Flora fire is “more connected” than the Evansdale murders.

From LE’s words to the complexity of MHB-area (and everything in between), I’ll never believe they weren’t targeted until it’s proven otherwise.

 

[minazoe]

"targeted"

what are your thoughts on the flora fire? I fail to feel a connection..was it aarson? what leads you feel there is a possible connection? mOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Do signatures always mean the murderer is experienced? No.

I think I had a post about this a few months ago. There are two big misconceptions about "signatures." One is that since they are often used to link crimes in a series, that part of the definition is that they must occur over and over. Not true. The definition of a signature is some action that was wholly unnecessary to the commission of the crime, but that was undertaken for psychological reasons related to the underlying fantasy or psychological urges of the offender. An offender can leave signatures even in his first murder. If you are looking for an example, the one I used last time was Austin Sigg who murdered Jessica Ridgeway (signatures in this crime were hair cutting, putting her in different clothes, etc.). None of those actions were necessary to murder or assault her. They weren't necessary for him to conceal his crime. He did them because they had psychosexual meaning to him. If he hadn't been turned in, in his next crime you'd likely have seen hair cutting and re-dressing again. Or some form of those actions. Because offenders can tinker with signatures as their fantasies evolve or the exigencies of the crime change (they will likely remain similar as they revolve around the same psychosexual urges).

The second big misconception about signatures is that they are often an object left at the scene. A cross made out of twigs, a single red rose, a note left in lipstick, a heart carved in a tree or some nonsense like that. Signatures are rarely objects. Almost 100% of the time, signatures are actions taken by the offender meant to sexually demean the victim. The most common signatures are sexual posing, insertion of foreign objects, shaving of pubic hair, type of bindings.

IMO.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Do signatures always mean the murderer is experienced? No.

I think I had a post about this a few months ago. There are two big misconceptions about "signatures." One is that since they are often used to link crimes in a series, that part of the definition is that they must occur over and over. Not true. The definition of a signature is some action that was wholly unnecessary to the commission of the crime, but that was undertaken for psychological reasons related to the underlying fantasy or psychological urges of the offender. An offender can leave signatures even in his first murder. If you are looking for an example, the one I used last time was Austin Sigg who murdered Jessica Ridgeway (signatures in this crime were hair cutting, putting her in different clothes, etc.). None of those actions were necessary to murder or assault her. They weren't necessary for him to conceal his crime. He did them because they had psychosexual meaning to him. If he hadn't been turned in, in his next crime you'd likely have seen hair cutting and re-dressing again. Or some form of those actions. Because offenders can tinker with signatures as their fantasies evolve or the exigencies of the crime change (they will likely remain similar as they revolve around the same psychosexual urges).

The second big misconception about signatures is that they are often an object left at the scene. A cross made out of twigs, a single red rose, a note left in lipstick, a heart carved in a tree or some nonsense like that. Signatures are rarely objects. Almost 100% of the time, signatures are actions taken by the offender meant to sexually demean the victim. The most common signatures are sexual posing, insertion of foreign objects, shaving of pubic hair, type of bindings.

IMO.

I’ve been thinking recently that maybe this was the Delphi killer’s first murder. A lot of people don’t think so I know because it was so bold to take two girls in broad daylight, etc. But maybe that’s why there’s no connection to previous cases and maybe there have been no more because he knows he made mistakes and and just got lucky. Maybe LE made mistakes too and that’s why no one has been arrested.
A lot of maybes there but just my thoughts.

 

[Yemelyan]

I’ve been thinking recently that maybe this was the Delphi killer’s first murder. A lot of people don’t think so I know because it was so bold to take two girls in broad daylight, etc. But maybe that’s why there’s no connection to previous cases and maybe there have been no more because he knows he made mistakes and and just got lucky. Maybe LE made mistakes too and that’s why no one has been arrested.
A lot of maybes there but just my thoughts.

I've been considering this too. When I first began studying the case, I was sure that he was a previous offender, less sure that he had committed other murders specifically but still leaning toward that scenario. However, since genetic genealogy has begun to solve some of the older cases, we do see a lot of offenders who apparently committed "one-offs" - maybe that information will change as more victims come to light, however. I do think we need to re-evaluate the accepted wisdom that every murderer, especially sexually motivated ones, will always re-offend, will always escalate.

 

[Charlot123]

"targeted"

what are your thoughts on the flora fire? I fail to feel a connection..was it aarson? what leads you feel there is a possible connection? mOO

I feel no connection between Delphi and Evansdale murders, but there might be a connection between Flora and Delphi. They are close in time and in place. Maybe it was as simple as Libby being told by some kid, who had own suspicions, and then the adults deciding to "take care" of it.

Both cases being cold, the mom of Flora kids moving away, and there is no indication that either of them will be solved.

 

[minazoe]

oh no I have never considered this is a first timer...no way. but I think he got lucky the Evansdale girls were found so late and there was no evidence to gather.

he's very familiar with parks and bridges and operates in this realm. he has bullied all his life and someone knows him. I also agree that he has crossed that bridge on many occasion and I think the police agree and this is why they think he is local.

his feet look small to me. who delivers newspapers around there? any plumbing jobs that week? could he have been working some plumbing job or contract and spending his lunches wandering the park there? could he have done the bridge a few times ..did anyone go to lunch that day and not come back?

mOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

there is a local hiss to his voice. think .. mizzurah, keanzis...it's pretty common...wiscansen..
ohiya..speaking with clenched teeth or very little movement of the mouth..

he's midwestern, no doubt.

... and if he is a language acrobat?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

"targeted"

what are your thoughts on the flora fire? I fail to feel a connection..was it aarson? what leads you feel there is a possible connection? mOO

Until today I can't connect the arson with the murder, black and white people= children, all dead sadly, but what is the meaning of it, IF it is one and the same perp?

 

[Charlot123]

... and if he is a language acrobat?

I think he is not (as he did not need to pretend, probably not knowing he was taped), but he might have a wide vocal register, from falsetto (guys) to vocal fry (down the hill).
Usually people won't notice it. Unless he is yelling (home members) or singing in the choir (church). Women are more sensitive to the tones of male voices in general.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I've been considering this too. When I first began studying the case, I was sure that he was a previous offender, less sure that he had committed other murders specifically but still leaning toward that scenario. However, since genetic genealogy has begun to solve some of the older cases, we do see a lot of offenders who apparently committed "one-offs" - maybe that information will change as more victims come to light, however. I do think we need to re-evaluate the accepted wisdom that every murderer, especially sexually motivated ones, will always re-offend, will always escalate.

The variables cannot be viewed separately. The preferred view is that he's a local. The preferred view is that he's killed previously.

Okay, that means Delphi (or nearby) is home to a serial killer, if you accept the definition that serial killer means killing three or more people.

I don't like the odds of that.

 

[Beachlife926]

First off thank you for all your posts - I always read them but felt out of my league actually commenting.
I wanted to bring up a couple thoughts - sorry if it’s been discussed - I try to read every post but could’ve missed it.

This is all hypothetical and IMO - if it wasn’t random but was targeted, then I think it could be a friends brother/brother type.
At that age, when going for an outing most girls ask other girls to go with them or meet them there. What if a friend knew the girls were going to the trails or even the bridge specifically, so asked if she could go. She wasn’t allowed but an older brother(or someone) overheard or even said no to the sister going, and went himself with bad intentions OR
I remember hearing the girls recorded chit chat (I believe it was from Abby’s Mom), they could’ve recorded chit chat about their plans and sent it to friends. When a friend played it, her brother(or someone) overheard it and headed over. Since everyone knew it was Abby’s first time crossing the bridge, maybe they made a big deal about it and it helped BG know exactly where to go. I use to think this about a friends father - until they revised the sketch.

I think if this did happen, the police are aware as they have recovered Libby’s phone.

Extra: I know “hey guys” is pretty common (I live in NY and find myself saying it to a group of girls), but I can definitely hear a big brother type using it while talking to his little sisters friends.