Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[mpnola]

There was also a photo of the shirt. I've been following since they were missing. Its not suspicious or weird that anyone knew what she was wearing. It was the info given for people to look for them. Like every other missing persons case.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...-missing-after-being-dropped-off-to-go-hiking

Libby is described as standing 5'4" tall with a heavy build. She has blonde shoulder-length hair and blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a tie-dyed shirt with fringe at the bottom, gray sweat pants with unknown black lettering and black Nike shoes.

Abby is described as standing 5'4" tall with a small build, medium length blonde hair and hazel eyes. She was last seen wearing a gray zip-up sweatshirt with a burgundy T-shirt underneath and blue jeans.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

But let me be the devil's advocate and assume that they were scared, and could escape?

Why would someone choose to cross the creek if there is a private driveway behind, with Abby's house close by?

Because that way is blocked.

Either someone is standing behind, or for some reason they are afraid to run that way.

Why?

Libby may have been hesitant to enter that yard because she had recently been warned by trespassing by the owner.

But bottom line they didn't run because they didn't think they were in danger. Trespassing would not have prevented anything if they thought it was a life and death situation. The tendency in this case and every true crime case is to overplay the result. But let's say we had a program with a stranger approaching two young girls, in that setting or any setting. Make it anybody. It doesn't have to be two girls. If we had a program like that it would quickly be about as exciting as a test pattern because one example after another would be a harmless passing in the night. Or 2:30 in the afternoon.

The path behind the bridge was not blocked. It was even more wide open in February 2017 than it is now. The HLN special not only used a camera angle from one foot above the planks they also showed November 2020 conditions in which several midsized trees had fallen right to left across the screen. There must have been a storm of some type since I visited. The Julie Melvin video from three weeks after the murders clearly shows a gravel path leading straight back behind the bridge and also shows the big open yard 50 yards away. HLN can't make that reality disappear no matter how many disgraceful tactics it enlists.

Freeze the screen at 4:37. Wide open and obvious. The girls could have dashed giggling into that yard within 10-12 seconds:

 

[Angels27]

I always thought that they took BG’s pic bc they were scared of him and didn’t recognize him but when I showed this case to my sister and said “they must not have known the guy” her reaction shocked me. She said, “That’s not true. If I was hiking and saw someone I knew like a teacher or a friend’s father or something I’d definitely take his picture and send it to my friends like ‘look who I see on my hike.’” Interesting take.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

This was also addressed in a question that I didn't include in my previous post. I think, based on how these two questions were answered, that there's a possibility that LE has him on video walking somewhere that's not in the direct area of the bridge.

Here they are:

Q: Was video collected throughout Delphi from Feb. 13 2017 including video from the building across from the abandoned CPS building (The Andersons)? A: Multiple pieces of evidence, including anything technologically based, have been gained. At least information followed into or brought to the attention by the investigators.

Then the following question, as above in my post, was "do you have the man walking on the bridge...on any other video?" And that answer was, due to evidentiary concerns I prefer not to respond.

Both of those were questions I submitted. I knew he wouldn't answer them but as a gambler I had to take a shot.

They also used the third question I posed, immediately below the other two. I asked about other photos/videos from Libby's phone and whether or not they had been helpful in piecing together a timeline and if the girls had encountered Bridge Guy earlier. Unfortunately they shortened the question to merely asking why other photos from Libby's phone had not been released. That was the end of my question but I was annoyed they didn't submit the multifaceted version.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I don’t know, do you have a link? I don’t recall the specific location of their residences ever being publicly disclosed.

If it was that close it would seem Libby’s dad would’ve driven over there when they weren’t at the pickup spot because a mile isn’t a long distance to walk. But no mention of that.

Abby lived in the neighborhood behind the bridge, within a mile or so. I've seen the road specified but I don't remember which one it was. I didn't spend much time driving back there. I do remember all the road numbers were multiples of 50...like 200 and 450, to go along with 300 near the drop off point.

Anna has been quoted several times that both girls were terrible at sense of direction.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I wonder what the NEW DIRECTION was. And where did that come from all of a sudden. I wonder if they got new intel. We couldn’t really see a new direction tho and you’re right, they did say something like they were starting anew, which would make you think they have new intel. If they did they didn’t share it with us except the new sketch and the “guys” added to audio. Maybe the it took the FBI 2 years to be able to make some of the video clear enough to see the perps face more clearly. Brand new technology? Or was it a genealogy result that got a hit? Something caused them to deem this 2 year date a New Starting Point.

IMO, the new direction had to be related to the car. That was the addition to 2019, asking about the car. Leazenby said in one interview that initially they focused on local then veered away once that was leading nowhere. They obviously returned to local in April 2019. I believe the young sketch is connected to the car. They ignored the car in 2017 because they didn't believe that early young sketch matched what they thought they saw in Libby's video. Once outside agencies took a fresh look at the case and asked why the heck did you ignore the first sketch you had...Delphi law enforcement said whoops that means we also should not have ignored the car.

One of the questions I asked to Leazenby in that Carroll County Comet Q&A was whether or not video footage had been gathered throughout Delphi on February 13, including from the Anderson building across from CPS. I have always believed they must have a speck version of Bridge Guy from some faraway source. Once they started focusing on that car I think they found some evidence of it moving around town at least somewhat confidently. That's what made them believe he indeed knows his way around and therefore must have some connection to Delphi.

All of that could be flat wrong. But when a car at CPS building was suddenly injected my instant thought was this has to be connected to the young sketch.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

BBM- we parked there when we were there and to walk to FB and the beginning of the trails, we were way out in the open.
If we had kept walking to the spot where KG dropped off, we would have been in the road all that way and in the open.
I dont think he would have wanted to be seen out in the open like that.
JMO

I agree. Walking the trail back to his car was a superior choice than walking along County Road 300. These are vacant trails. I am going to continue to emphasize that, despite the hype of 70 people or popular area among youth. Bridge Guy made a number of correct choices. Cars would be favored to pass him on County Road 300, over let's say 10 minutes. Meanwhile 10 minutes on a stretch of Monon High Bridge Trail is huge favoritism to be completely vacant.

Do those smart choices make him more likely to be local, or prepared outsider? We were discussing this on another site recently. I said 70/30 toward outsider.

If he is local then I think he is larger and younger than conventional wisdom. I don't think a 40 year old from Delphi could get away with this for so long. Mid 20s or younger...possibly. If he's local I also think he might have used County Road 300 both ways, coming and going.

 

[Angels27]

IMO, the new direction had to be related to the car. That was the addition to 2019, asking about the car. Leazenby said in one interview that initially they focused on local then veered away once that was leading nowhere. They obviously returned to local in April 2019. I believe the young sketch is connected to the car. They ignored the car in 2017 because they didn't believe that early young sketch matched what they thought they saw in Libby's video. Once outside agencies took a fresh look at the case and asked why the heck did you ignore the first sketch you had...Delphi law enforcement said whoops that means we also should not have ignored the car.

One of the questions I asked to Leazenby in that Carroll County Comet Q&A was whether or not video footage had been gathered throughout Delphi on February 13, including from the Anderson building across from CPS. I have always believed they must have a speck version of Bridge Guy from some faraway source. Once they started focusing on that car I think they found some evidence of it moving around town at least somewhat confidently. That's what made them believe he indeed knows his way around and therefore must have some connection to Delphi.

All of that could be flat wrong. But when a car at CPS building was suddenly injected my instant thought was this has to be connected to the young sketch.

_________

Superintendent Doug Carter said Monday a new sketch was produced thanks to “new information and intelligence” collected during the investigation into the February 2017 killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams. They said the person in the first sketch issued two years ago is no longer a person of interest in the case.

A news release from state police on Wednesday explained why police released a second sketch.

“It was initially believed the sketch that has been in public view over the last two years of a person in the age range of his 40’s to 50’s was a person of interest in this murder investigation. Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed, it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22nd more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”

Police also made these points Thursday about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person.
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation.
• The sketch released Monday is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cellphone as he was walking on the high bridge a place where the girls were hiking.
• The person in the sketch released Monday is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late 30s.
• This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch.

 

[Angels27]

Vehicle

“Police also requested the public’s help in determining the identity of a motorist who had parked a vehicle along a county road in Delphi near the Hoosier Heartland Highway between noon and 5 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017 — the day the girls were slain.

The girls’ bodies were found the following day in a rugged, wooded area about a quarter-mile from the bridge, which is near a local trail network the girls had planned to explore.

Police might be releasing the video and additional audio now — more than two years after the killings — because of the time-consuming work that’s often involved in enhancing digital evidence, said Kathy Guider, a former FBI agent who is now vice president of Veracity IIR, a Carmel, Indiana, security company.”
_________

Maybe a highway or business security camera captured footage of the car parking there but was too grainy to see driver or maybe not. Maybe the driver looked just like the new sketch guy.

____________

Sketch

A sketch police believe may depict the face of the killer behind the 2017 slayings of two girls in Indiana and that was released to the public on Monday was actually drawn two years ago -- just days after the victim's bodies were discovered.

hmmm I wonder why they didn’t release that originally. And I wonder what the source of the sketch was. Eyewitness or Libby’s video.

 

[goldiegirl]

Libby may have been hesitant to enter that yard because she had recently been warned by trespassing by the owner.

But bottom line they didn't run because they didn't think they were in danger. Trespassing would not have prevented anything if they thought it was a life and death situation. The tendency in this case and every true crime case is to overplay the result. But let's say we had a program with a stranger approaching two young girls, in that setting or any setting. Make it anybody. It doesn't have to be two girls. If we had a program like that it would quickly be about as exciting as a test pattern because one example after another would be a harmless passing in the night. Or 2:30 in the afternoon.

The path behind the bridge was not blocked. It was even more wide open in February 2017 than it is now. The HLN special not only used a camera angle from one foot above the planks they also showed November 2020 conditions in which several midsized trees had fallen right to left across the screen. There must have been a storm of some type since I visited. The Julie Melvin video from three weeks after the murders clearly shows a gravel path leading straight back behind the bridge and also shows the big open yard 50 yards away. HLN can't make that reality disappear no matter how many disgraceful tactics it enlists.

Freeze the screen at 4:37. Wide open and obvious. The girls could have dashed giggling into that yard within 10-12 seconds:

When you say they didn't run because they didn't think they were in danger, what is your theory on why Libby filmed him, then?

I've pondered this quite a bit, because I also don't know that a feeling of danger was necessarily the reason she filmed. Maybe just in case? Maybe just to tell others they saw someone creepy? Was it someone they knew? Did they think something was humorous? Just trying to think at that age why I might have turned on my camera.

 

[goldiegirl]

_________

Superintendent Doug Carter said Monday a new sketch was produced thanks to “new information and intelligence” collected during the investigation into the February 2017 killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams. They said the person in the first sketch issued two years ago is no longer a person of interest in the case.

A news release from state police on Wednesday explained why police released a second sketch.

“It was initially believed the sketch that has been in public view over the last two years of a person in the age range of his 40’s to 50’s was a person of interest in this murder investigation. Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed, it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22nd more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”

Police also made these points Thursday about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person.
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation.
• The sketch released Monday is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cellphone as he was walking on the high bridge a place where the girls were hiking.
• The person in the sketch released Monday is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late 30s.
• This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch.

Wait ... what? Whoa. I wonder how many others have misunderstood this like I did. I did watch the HLN special, and even then I didn't pick up on the fact that this is supposed to be two separate people. I mean obviously most of us thought they looked nothing alike, but even in the special a relative was describing how she was able to reconcile the two as having the same features just described by different people.

The wording in these bullet points makes it sound like Sketch #1 was someone else entirely, perhaps a specific person someone had seen at the park and that maybe they even know who he is and have now ruled him out. And Sketch #2 is supposed to represent BG. Which is super odd, because it looks nothing like what we can see of the video, and the age range for the voice wouldn't match up, yet Sketch #1 does seem to represent BG. What on earth?

 

[Snoop Sister]

I found Barbara MacDonald’s interview with Sheriff Leazenby on March 25, 2020 regarding resolving the Delphi murders interesting.

Barbara - “when we spoke to you in September, you said you had a handful of names in your head that you couldn’t get out of your head. I think you said five. Has that changed since then? Have you added any, have you taken away any?
Leazenby - “to the second part, I would say I think in my own mind, possibly at this stage, we have narrowed that list down - you know 3 or 4”

This is the first I have heard of this. Thoughts?

https://www.downthehillpodcast.com/ Episode 9

 

[Laura456]

Wait ... what? Whoa. I wonder how many others have misunderstood this like I did. I did watch the HLN special, and even then I didn't pick up on the fact that this is supposed to be two separate people. I mean obviously most of us thought they looked nothing alike, but even in the special a relative was describing how she was able to reconcile the two as having the same features just described by different people.

The wording in these bullet points makes it sound like Sketch #1 was someone else entirely, perhaps a specific person someone had seen at the park and that maybe they even know who he is and have now ruled him out. And Sketch #2 is supposed to represent BG. Which is super odd, because it looks nothing like what we can see of the video, and the age range for the voice wouldn't match up, yet Sketch #1 does seem to represent BG. What on earth?

Then Carter said when he is found, he will look like the combination of the two sketches...so confusing

 

[Laura456]

So I was thinking about how the police are not releasing much at all. What would be helpful?

- Releasing any more audio/video of BG that they have
- Clarifying where the sketches came from and that they are two different people, one of which is no longer a suspect
- showing photos of any objects belonging to bg that was left at the scene
- Giving explanation of the car, if they found the driver

Not helpful would be:

- Crime scene photos
- Cause of death
- Signatures (they could cause copycats)

 

[Snoop Sister]

Then Carter said when he is found, he will look like the combination of the two sketches...so confusing

Carter is so confusing. He says one thing and then he turns around and contradicts himself with a completely different statement.

 

[Angels27]

Wait ... what? Whoa. I wonder how many others have misunderstood this like I did. I did watch the HLN special, and even then I didn't pick up on the fact that this is supposed to be two separate people. I mean obviously most of us thought they looked nothing alike, but even in the special a relative was describing how she was able to reconcile the two as having the same features just described by different people.

The wording in these bullet points makes it sound like Sketch #1 was someone else entirely, perhaps a specific person someone had seen at the park and that maybe they even know who he is and have now ruled him out. And Sketch #2 is supposed to represent BG. Which is super odd, because it looks nothing like what we can see of the video, and the age range for the voice wouldn't match up, yet Sketch #1 does seem to represent BG. What on earth?

Yep. Two separate people. The older bulbous nose guy with hat n goatee sketch apparently was based on an eyewitness account of someone they saw on the trail that day. The younger guy sketch was drawn almost immediately but not released til 2019 n I’m not sure what it’s source was.

 

[Angels27]

So I was thinking about how the police are not releasing much at all. What would be helpful?

- Releasing any more audio/video of BG that they have
- Clarifying where the sketches came from and that they are two different people, one of which is no longer a suspect
- showing photos of any objects belonging to bg that was left at the scene
- Giving explanation of the car, if they found the driver

Not helpful would be:

- Crime scene photos
- Cause of death
- Signatures (they could cause copycats)

LE says any release of info will hurt prosecutions case in court.

 

[Snoop Sister]

So I was thinking about how the police are not releasing much at all. What would be helpful?

- Releasing any more audio/video of BG that they have
- Clarifying where the sketches came from and that they are two different people, one of which is no longer a suspect
- showing photos of any objects belonging to bg that was left at the scene
- Giving explanation of the car, if they found the driver

Not helpful would be:

- Crime scene photos
- Cause of death
- Signatures (they could cause copycats)

-Apparently there is more audio but from what I understand the public does not need to hear it.
-IMO, they don’t have anymore video of BG.
- LE have already clarified the reasoning behind the two sketches in the past, which you will find in previous threads.
-I too would like to know more about the car.

 

[sandy_80]

Unless he knew them or followed them on social media or his kid or grandchild, wife or other relative or friend. Or if someone the girls knew like a friend or relative mentioned it in passing to the creep. Like maybe the girls talked about it the night before online or to a friend or relative and that person mentioned it to someone else. Like the dad knew he had to go pick them up right. Maybe he mentioned it to a coworker. It’s very possible one or many people knew well before they arrived. The grandfather of Libby said it was a “friend” or his that found the girls bodies right. I found that interesting.

I hear what you’re saying, but we definitely cannot rule out this was targeted, esp around Valentines Day and esp in light of that fact that it looks like they haven’t struck again, it to mention that this was clearly planned in advance.

there are too many claims about who found the bodies...a family member.. a friend..and so on

it's true you can not rule out anything, but still if he was a local and someone connected to the girls circle, he would have been detected by now..
and lets say .. he is from that inner circle..
what kind of killer would that make him ? a family man living a double life ? choosing these two youngsters as victims for a one time horrific murder ?
I don't see how this works in the stalking theory.. as these two girls will only be a target for a peado ? which I already disregard in my personal theory
surely the act of violence was planned fully ..however that doesn't necessarily make the victims planned as well.. that day had unusual traffic for that area

 

[stattlich1]

Wait ... what? Whoa. I wonder how many others have misunderstood this like I did. I did watch the HLN special, and even then I didn't pick up on the fact that this is supposed to be two separate people. I mean obviously most of us thought they looked nothing alike, but even in the special a relative was describing how she was able to reconcile the two as having the same features just described by different people.

The wording in these bullet points makes it sound like Sketch #1 was someone else entirely, perhaps a specific person someone had seen at the park and that maybe they even know who he is and have now ruled him out. And Sketch #2 is supposed to represent BG. Which is super odd, because it looks nothing like what we can see of the video, and the age range for the voice wouldn't match up, yet Sketch #1 does seem to represent BG. What on earth?

And then, somewhere along the line, it's mentioned by a member of LE that the suspect could be a combination of both sketches.....go figure.