Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[MistyWaters]

The bolded. IMO, when people come upon remains or even recently deceased bodies, they often don't know what they are looking at initially. I have heard deer, or a mannequin, as an example.

It's possible that's what was meant. The searcher(s) knew something was out of place, but it did not connect immediately they were looking at actual bodies. IMO

I agree, the searchers were all looking for living girls, not murder victims. I think the human mind often protects us from sudden shock of reality to some extent so it wouldn’t surprise me if the searchers didn’t immediately recognize what they saw. The mind might first register the thought they were only sleeping, drugged, passed out, even trying to hide, playing a game etc.

 

[Yemelyan]

I agree, the searchers were all looking for living girls, not murder victims. I think the human mind often protects us from sudden shock of reality to some extent so it wouldn’t surprise me if the searchers didn’t immediately recognize what they saw. The mind might first register the thought they were only sleeping, drugged, passed out, even trying to hide, playing a game etc.

Agreed and I'd take it one step further and guess that searchers, if anything, might have been dreading but realistically expecting to find girls that had died of hypothermia overnight....not brutal murder (as Carter called it).

 

[Seattle1]

This strategy is very calculated......wonder why.....


I'm wondering what was meant by the searchers didn't immediately know what they had come upon......

I'm wondering if searchers had previously passed the area and saw nothing. Perhaps it was not evident this was a crime scene until standing on the evidence.

 

[MistyWaters]

Agreed and I'd take it one step further and guess that searchers, if anything, might have been dreading but realistically expecting to find girls that had died of hypothermia overnight....not brutal murder (as Carter called it).

Good point, hypothermia.

I think sometimes imagination take words such as signatures and staging toward a truly macabre death scene. But for the simple fact the two girls were believed to be missing, people walking around, searching while calling out their names hoping to hear a response “we’re over here”, instead only silence....then the discovery of their bodies. IMO that’d qualify as a upsetting, gruesome find regardless of how they were murdered.

 

[deugirtni]

When I watched the recent HLN show, I believe it was the second part, it said something about the person who saw the bodies, had to zoom in with his phone, to determine for sure that it was bodies. From that, I gathered that nobody was really up close and personal when they were found, and police would've at least been with the first people to get to them, once the person with the phone announced his finding. jmo.

 

[Seattle1]

When I watched the recent HLN show, I believe it was the second part, it said something about the person who saw the bodies, had to zoom in with his phone, to determine for sure that it was bodies. From that, I gathered that nobody was really up close and personal when they were found, and police would've at least been with the first people to get to them, once the person with the phone announced his finding. jmo.

Thank you, @deugirtni. I just watched Part 2 and was shocked to hear that somebody used their camera for a focused view.

 

[deugirtni]

Thank you, @deugirtni. I just watched Part 2 and was shocked to hear that somebody used their camera for a focused view.

It was actually a great idea.. if things are too far away to see them, we can just pull out our phones and zoom in.. if we even think about doing it (which I generally wouldn't).

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm wondering if searchers had previously passed the area and saw nothing. Perhaps it was not evident this was a crime scene until standing on the evidence.

LE have not said if it had been searched. Possibly not though, as the entire time the search was for two missing girls, not dead bodies. I recall Anna stating she thought they’d gotten lost as their sense of direction was not very good. The search area was several square miles on the 14th iirc so 100s were not all searching right around the bridge. It’s was earlier reported on the evening of the 13th searches took place in the town of Delphi, on the trails and creek banks on the chance they had fallen in (the total trail system is 10 miles). From the bridge, Deer Creek flows toward Delphi, they were found upstream.

So if that particular area where they were found hadn’t been searched yet perhaps it was because there was no reason to expect to find them where they did, only a 1/4 mile or so from the bridge. JMO

 

[TL4S]

It was actually a great idea.. if things are too far away to see them, we can just pull out our phones and zoom in.. if we even think about doing it (which I generally wouldn't).

This is likely why the statement about searchers not knowing what they're seeing. They only saw it from far away. Jmo

 

[Cantwaitfortheday]

I cannot get over the fact that he crossed the river with his two abductees. I find this so strange. He either had his mind set on this spot to commit crime or he was planning on removing the two girls from this location all together but maybe, after the river crossing, the girls started to fight back and things got messy. His car must have been close to this area or he would not have been so eager to cross river. JMO

 

[Cantwaitfortheday]

Another thought regarding the photo/video of BG: There looks to be a gun in his brown Fanny pack/ pouch/ pocket with his hand secured to it for easy access to pull out and gain control.

 

[Cantwaitfortheday]

BG’s hat. It’s unusual in color and shape. I recall a bank robber case where they were able to identify the perp because of something he wore, that was traced to the actual purchase, bought with credit card, etc. Can someone do an experiment where they recreate the scene with different hats, during this time of year, around the same time so we can pinpoint details. Or, can someone with more tech experience than me, do a image search of this color and shape of hat and see if it is sold somewhere or matched to a photo on social media, etc.?

 

[mpnola]

I haven't watched the new show yet. I just listened to Grey's show with the behavior analyst.... who I'm kind of obsessed with! Shes amazing!!!.....

Ok, I got a brand new thought, while re-listening to "The Shack" presser. I am sure this was brought up but I haven't seen it brought up much, so I wanted to mention it. We all know that the "new sketch" presser was kind of heavily weighted in religion and sliver of conscience and what will people think of you? He also said "we know you have told someone what you did". What about confession? A priest? I understand the whole "confidentiality" thing, because I am a counselor. BUT, we also can make our own professional disclosures and confidentiality agreement terms. Mine said that if you disclose that you have committed a crime, I may report the crime. I wonder if the church has a similar disclosure. Or maybe he could go to the police and say what "a person" admitted to, but not give identifying information. But that is a way they know he is 1. local and 2. religious and semi remorseful, or at least worried about his eternal fate.

 

[MistyWaters]

BG’s hat. It’s unusual in color and shape. I recall a bank robber case where they were able to identify the perp because of something he wore, that was traced to the actual purchase, bought with credit card, etc. Can someone do an experiment where they recreate the scene with different hats, during this time of year, around the same time so we can pinpoint details. Or, can someone with more tech experience than me, do a image search of this color and shape of hat and see if it is sold somewhere or matched to a photo on social media, etc.?

Welcome to the thread!

If you’re referring to the hat from the first sketch, at the time it was released LE said not to focus on it.

“In that first sketch, shown below, detectives say the man’s hat was changed to make his facial features more recognizable.”
https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/three-years-later-everything-we-know-about-the-delphi-murders

Otherwise the official media releases indicate he was believed to be wearing a hoodie (which I think has white strings).

“The photograph appears to depict a white male wearing blue jeans, a blue coat/jacket, and a hoodie.”
ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation

 

[minazoe]

note to bg.

murder is a big no no...you can confess all day...we all know where you are going.

mOO

 

[Snoop Sister]

I haven't watched the new show yet. I just listened to Grey's show with the behavior analyst.... who I'm kind of obsessed with! Shes amazing!!!.....

Ok, I got a brand new thought, while re-listening to "The Shack" presser. I am sure this was brought up but I haven't seen it brought up much, so I wanted to mention it. We all know that the "new sketch" presser was kind of heavily weighted in religion and sliver of conscience and what will people think of you? He also said "we know you have told someone what you did". What about confession? A priest? I understand the whole "confidentiality" thing, because I am a counselor. BUT, we also can make our own professional disclosures and confidentiality agreement terms. Mine said that if you disclose that you have committed a crime, I may report the crime. I wonder if the church has a similar disclosure. Or maybe he could go to the police and say what "a person" admitted to, but not give identifying information. But that is a way they know he is 1. local and 2. religious and semi remorseful, or at least worried about his eternal fate.

If you want to hear an awesome behaviour analyst who has had years of experience with the FBI and is more familiar with the case, listen to Mary Ellen O’Toole at the following link. It is on episode 9 or also called chapter nine. Her analysis is right on IMO.

https://www.downthehillpodcast.com/

 

[Snoop Sister]

Another thought regarding the photo/video of BG: There looks to be a gun in his brown fanny pack/ pouch/ pocket with his hand secured to it for easy access to pull out and gain control.

IMO and only in my opinion, I don’t think that is a fanny pack but his brown hoodie tail is sticking out from under his jacket.

 

[Seattle1]

I cannot get over the fact that he crossed the river with his two abductees. I find this so strange. He either had his mind set on this spot to commit crime or he was planning on removing the two girls from this location all together but maybe, after the river crossing, the girls started to fight back and things got messy. His car must have been close to this area or he would not have been so eager to cross river. JMO

Welcome to WS @Cantwaitfortheday.
I'm inclined to believe that they ended up on the other side of the creek because the girls tried to escape from the suspect. I think there was a better or secluded area below the road against the hill where the suspect and victims would not be visible.
No, I don't think the suspect was eager to cross the river. MOO

 

[Snoop Sister]

Welcome to WS @Cantwaitfortheday.
I'm inclined to believe that they ended up on the other side of the creek because the girls tried to escape from the suspect. I think there was a better or secluded area below the road against the hill where the suspect and victims would not be visible.
No, I don't think the suspect was eager to cross the river. MOO

Conversely, I think the killer had it all planned out. Not the victims but the scenario. He was no stranger to the bridge or the lay of the land.

moo

 

[Angels27]

Hi, new to this thread. Sorry if this is a repeat question, but does anyone know anything about either victim’s real father or stepfather? I haven’t heard one word about either for either girl. Seems odd. Libby was raised by grandparents and had a mother who lived in nearby Kentucky, and Abby was raised by a single mother who according to her obituary was the only one listed at the time of her birth in Sault Sainte Marie Michigan. I thought I did read something about a stepfather for one of them at some point but then could not find it again.