Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[sandy_80]

there were other groups of teen out on the trails that day .. it would be impossible for him to know that these two girls in particular would be there when he arrives on the scene ..its just deadly timing is my opinion.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

there were other groups of teen out on the trails that day .. it would be impossible for him to know that these two girls in particular would be there when he arrives on the scene ..its just deadly timing is my opinion.

Fair enough. Does anyone know what the girls' names were on SnapChat? He may have had a criteria to kill, young girls etc and depending on their names he searched their FB to see if they met that criteria.

 

[stattlich1]

If he crossed the river, I’m assuming he was unable to stay dry. The river, from footage I’ve seen, seems to be semi fast moving and without stepping stones, etc. it would seem one would have to wade through, even ankle/calf deep

Snipped by me.

With all respect, I will state, there is not one country boy from my neck of the woods that would call Deer Creek, a river. It simply is NOT a river. It's a creek. That's why they call it Deer Creek.

It is in fact quite shallow where they are thought to have crossed, and at the time, likely only a few inches to maybe a half a foot deep in that area.

 

[stattlich1]

But let me be the devil's advocate and assume that they were scared, and could escape?

Why would someone choose to cross the creek if there is a private driveway behind, with Abby's house close by?

Because that way is blocked.

Either someone is standing behind, or for some reason they are afraid to run that way.

Why?

"Did one or more sets of footprints lead searchers to the area where the girls were found? This speaks to an evidentiary aspect of the investigation and I would prefer respectfully to not answer."

I've taken some heat for theorizing there may have been more than one perp. We all speculate and come to some times same, some times, different conclusions. There could very well have been more than one perp. Or, BG could have simply threatened them with a firearm. However, with the flight, or fight response, it is easy for me to think the girls would run, even when threatened, unless the couldn't.

"In the public domain there have been descriptions of the crime scene, descriptions of items found, and the positioning of the bodies. Do you feel there was an excessive number of persons present once it was determined to be a crime scene? Once secured by law enforcement, no. I would surmise that the searchers did not immediately know what they had come upon."

This particular quote leads me to think that the crime scene was arranged, or set up, or left in some manner, so as to conceal the bodies, or otherwise would not, upon arrival, immediately be seen as a murder scene.

"In your professional opinion, would you describe the deaths of the six females (NOTE: the questioner is including the Flora Fire in this question) as "planned"? No. Rather, "victims of circumstance or opportunity."

Circumstance, to me, could be very different form opportunity. Circumstance could be many things. The girls stumbled upon something going on that they should not have, or some other such speculation.

Whereas, opportunity, to me, means we have a SK, or a murderer who indeed either spontaneously decided to kill these girls, or had been set up lying in wait for a target to cross that bridge. I tend toward him already having been set up, and prepared, A&L being innocent in entering his trap.

Be in known to BG, should he peruse this thread, that 4 years after his evil deed, there are many, literally hundreds, nationwide, who have not, and will not give up until he is found.

 

[stattlich1]

I noticed Abbys mother said they still have not even told the parents what happened to the girls. That seems odd. LE must know what kind of torture those poor parents are going thru not knowing. So why not at least tell them. It’s almost like being the parent of a missing child. That would be enough to make anyone snap. What would be the harm in only telling them, unless they thought someone close to them was the perp and it might get back to him. I highly doubt the parents would ever tell anyone if cops swore them to secrecy and told they could be brought up on obstruction of justice charges if they did. So why the total silence for over 4 YEARS?

The way in which these girls were killed should remain confidential to all, other than LE that is on the case.

That way, if/when the tip comes in, specifying the manner of death, LE will know it to be accurate.

 

[stattlich1]

We all, from time to time, assume that LE might be unaware of who the perp is, and at other times, think that they have an idea, but something is holding them back?

I was thinking about it - what could it, potentially, be? Power and money, the usual? Something religious?

Has anyone considered that the perp, whoever he is, might know something to blackmail potential witnesses, the citizens of Delphi, even LE?

I remember one career ruined. A former escort lady told a story that ruined the judge’s career. And then she disappeared...where is she now?

Not for a second did I believe that she was scared to tell her story.

But what if that whole “diary” was an example, a thinly veiled threat? Every human being has something in his life that he/she doesn’t want to be known. Regular, human, sins - an extramarital affair, a bribe, embezzling, stealing, maybe a child out of wedlock, maybe a kid who did something in his youth...not the best stuff, of course, but not a murder, either.

What if this perp is blackmailing everyone? Depending on what he does, he might have enough material for everyone.

ETA: if we read some “explosive” information coming from Delphi, about its citizens, I would be very careful with judging. I may not like KF, but for every escort lady, it makes sense to have her “tame” judge, not to get rid of him.

Indeed, I have pondered such often. It just doesn't add up. The video. The evidence. The voice. Yet nothing. I posted years ago something just doesn't pass the smell test here. All speculation of of course

 

[stattlich1]

Could very well be like some creepy neighbor or the husband or older son of one of their sports coaches or teachers. Or a classmates creepy uncle that watches them from a distance. That town has a higher than the national average amount of registered sex offenders too.

I don’t think it’s a one off tho. Planning it, parking the car away from crime scene, setting up the lair, bringing the probable zip ties or rope and the fatal weapon, actually killing them, etc. seems like the work of someone who has done this before and will most likely do it again. And the fact that he left at 5 pm (if the vehicle parked at building is in fact perps) and committed this crime in broad daylight in a public place with others nearby, makes me think he lives with either a wife, roommate, kid, or parents and could not risk bringing them to his house.

I like this. BG had to be home by 5 for dinner. Or maybe 6. So he was expected home daily by that time, right? He worked during the days, or had some other routine that would lead to him returning home around dinner time. He couldn't risk messing up that routine, for alibi purposes.

 

[TL4S]

In regard to the creek crossing, there is one factor that I have considered, but I've never figured out a clear way to explain. It also makes me question his original intention of ever taking them across the creek at all.

As I've theorized many times before, cornering them at the end of the bridge was the goal. Yes, they could have run in any direction south, but they came from the north side and were likely planning on going back the same way. IMO, scared young girls would naturally want to head in the direction of familiarity and safety, not the unknown. A predator would use that to his advantage, thus cornering them where he did, with the bridge and creek blocking their way back.

Okay, so the creek is shallow enough for a manageable crossing down below the bridge. Instead of that being a factor in his planning and commission of the crime, maybe it was just dumb luck. Maybe he simply took advantage of it once there, on a whim or out of necessity. Or the girls did, trying to run. Either way, I think it's possible the depth of the creek was not significant until it was, if that makes sense. Of course, I could be completely whacked out with this line of thinking. Again, I learn toward this being a crime done on impulse vs. lots of pre- planning, though.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

No, it is NOT for certain as far as we in the public know, that the car at the CPS building was the killer's! I'm not sure if it was even there until 5 pm. The killer is assumed by most to have hightailed it out of there immediately after the crime IMO.

I don’t even remember the car at the CPS building being mentioned in the special on HLN. I thought that was odd considering it was a big part of the 2019 press conference.
It also hasn’t been mentioned in a very long time by LE. Has that question been answered for LE so it’s no longer an issue?

 

[Snoop Sister]

Is it widely accepted/understood that the vehicle parked at the CPS building that LE sought information on, belonged to the killer?
The only official thing I have heard is the mentioning of the vehicle at the 2019 PC and then nothing since?

I think many people are assuming it is the vehicle of the killer. There is no definitive proof of any such thing? Who reported seeing the car anyway?

 

[Ekliptika]

Just MOO but I think BG is a lot skinnier than he looks on the video. I think he's wearing at least 4 layers to make it seem like he may be chubbier than he is. Again MOO but when I look at his jeans, they seem baggy and also like they have things stuffed under them, particularly his right leg as you look at images of BG.

Why is he wearing so many layers when it was a warm day? He has a jacket on, a scarf, potentially a hoodie and then potentially a jumper or shirt underneath it all. MOO

BBM - I read a discussion about this in another forum, related to what the white things are that you Can see sticking out of the top of the jacket. Most people Seem to Think that it is robe, strings from the hoodie or maybe those plastic strips you Can use to handcuff people. Someone had a theory that I have not seen before, that it is some sort of a device used to capture animals, where you have a loop at the end of a stick. The White part sticking out of the jacket is the loop and the stick is inside his clothes going Down the right leg of his jeans. He could have used such a device to control/capture the girls/ one of them so they could not run. This is a very scary thought for me.

 

[Snoop Sister]

I cannot get over the fact that he crossed the river with his two abductees. I find this so strange. He either had his mind set on this spot to commit crime or he was planning on removing the two girls from this location all together but maybe, after the river crossing, the girls started to fight back and things got messy. His car must have been close to this area or he would not have been so eager to cross river. JMO

As locals have said, it is more of a creek not a river.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

We all, from time to time, assume that LE might be unaware of who the perp is, and at other times, think that they have an idea, but something is holding them back?

I was thinking about it - what could it, potentially, be? Power and money, the usual? Something religious?

Has anyone considered that the perp, whoever he is, might know something to blackmail potential witnesses, the citizens of Delphi, even LE?

I remember one career ruined. A former escort lady told a story that ruined the judge’s career. And then she disappeared...where is she now?

Not for a second did I believe that she was scared to tell her story.

But what if that whole “diary” was an example, a thinly veiled threat? Every human being has something in his life that he/she doesn’t want to be known. Regular, human, sins - an extramarital affair, a bribe, embezzling, stealing, maybe a child out of wedlock, maybe a kid who did something in his youth...not the best stuff, of course, but not a murder, either.

What if this perp is blackmailing everyone? Depending on what he does, he might have enough material for everyone.

ETA: if we read some “explosive” information coming from Delphi, about its citizens, I would be very careful with judging. I may not like KF, but for every escort lady, it makes sense to have her “tame” judge, not to get rid of him.

Interesting thoughts.
I might could see the killer pressuring someone to keep their mouths shut, but not “everybody”. He would have to have been filing dirt away on people for quite awhile, plus, it’s a small town...my guess is everybody knows most every else’s “dark secrets” anyway.
Also, even if the killer was blackmailing “everybody” I think surely someone would say to themself “I don’t care if the whole town knows I like to dress like Shirley Temple on Friday nights and have an impressive Hello Kitty collection in my basement....there are two young girls who were brutally murdered so I’m going to the police!”
Just my somewhat amusing thoughts.

 

[Ekliptika]

I don’t even remember the car at the CPS building being mentioned in the special on HLN. I thought that was odd considering it was a big part of the 2019 press conference.
It also hasn’t been mentioned in a very long time by LE. Has that question been answered for LE so it’s no longer an issue?

This makes me Think that the car was maybe not so important after all. Or maybe it was and is it just one of the things that LE is keeping to themselves.
I just have a hard time believing that you park your car at the end of the trail, then walks the trail, kill the girls and then walk back to your car, given that this would put you at High risk to be seen by others. I tend to think that he entered and exited the area without being seen, unless he deliberately wanted to be seen (if he were disguised, wearing a mask or wearing clothes that Will make him look very different than normal. Making sure you are seen by vitnesses when you are in you disguise could be a Way of leading the investigation in the wrong direction).

 

[Seattle1]

Carroll County Comet news sponsored Q&A with the Sheriff for the fourth anniversary, and reportedly publishing answers in multiple reports. Perhaps a reader posed a follow-up question about the vehicle parked near the former CPS building to the Sheriff, and his response is pending. Time will tell...

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet

 

[minazoe]

from the absolute teeth rattling nerves seen in the presser with C , I just feel so strongly now that
BG called in or left a message somehow and said something about the girls "condition". maybe just before the presser...which would make sense. It just fits..because Carter was sending a message back to him and he was a nervous wreck. Seriously this man was SHAKEN. mOO

 

[minazoe]

side note: many serial killers like to play little games...they are emboldened when they are not caught...notes, calls, calls to the victims family...objects left or notes..ciphers..anonymous confessions...it's all been done in the past. mOO

 

[stattlich1]

from the absolute teeth rattling nerves seen in the presser with C , I just feel so strongly now that
BG called in or left a message somehow and said something about the girls "condition". maybe just before the presser...which would make sense. It just fits..because Carter was sending a message back to him and he was a nervous wreck. Seriously this man was SHAKEN. mOO

Awesome theory. This could explain some other things, like, 'you want to know what we know, and one day you will' 'may be in this room' etc. etc.

 

[minazoe]

it may be they don't want to give him attention so unless it is leaked to the press we may not hear what all is going on..I say they should leak it..he will love the attention and the more he communicates the better. mOO

 

[Peppery]

Does anyone else think he wasn’t intentionally looking for child victims? And so the day off from school was coincidental? Per their FBI posters, both girls were 5’4”. Both had on pants and jackets. From a distance they could’ve been a huge age range. Maybe he saw them from a distance and once he decided they were going to be his victims, he was too mentally committed once he was close enough to realize they were younger than he first thought. Or he was too focused on what he was doing to even think about their ages.