Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[Angels27]

Yep I agree, he was there hoping to find a victim. He was prepared, he had what he needed with him and all he had to do was wait, wait until he saw an opportunity. I don't know how many kids really crossed that bridge on any given day or week, but I did read people liked to do selfies and take pictures there in front of it. I know I wouldn't be brave enough to walk over it, too scary for me. But he was like a wolf, waiting for prey. I wonder how many days he waited there, and just left, to return again on another day?

Good post and yeah, no kidding... that Bridge, OMG. I cringe just looking at it. No railings, so high, rotted out wood, missing boards. I’m shocked the county or state didn’t shut it down. It’s a major lawsuit waiting to happen. If I had a family member fall off of it, I’d sue and so would anyone else.

 

[Angels27]

Yep I agree, he was there hoping to find a victim. He was prepared, he had what he needed with him and all he had to do was wait, wait until he saw an opportunity. I don't know how many kids really crossed that bridge on any given day or week, but I did read people liked to do selfies and take pictures there in front of it. I know I wouldn't be brave enough to walk over it, too scary for me. But he was like a wolf, waiting for prey. I wonder how many days he waited there, and just left, to return again on another day?

Good post and yeah, no kidding... that Bridge, OMG. I cringe just looking at it. No railings, so high, rotted out wood, missing boards. I’m shocked the county or state didn’t shut it down. It’s a major lawsuit waiting to happen. If I had a family member fall off of it, I’d sue and so would anyone else.

Exactly...I don’t believe snap chat and other social media had anything to do with the murders and the Sheriff has indicated such in the past. The social media aspect has been thoroughly investigated by countless LE. The killer was already on that bridge prepared and waiting for a victim.

There are plenty of ways these creeps get obsessed with kids. He could have seen them in the local online or TV news for some sports they play. Apparently Libby was a great swimmer and softball player and Abby a good volleyball player etc, so I’m sure there pictures were out there. Maybe the perps kid or grandkid goes to school with them and he has access to the school newspaper or website and saw one of their pix and got obsessed. This stuff happens a lot more than most people realize. It seems like every time I look at the news some creeper is being arrested for stalking some kid from his child’s school these days. The only reason it would matter if this was a targeted attack is that it would significantly narrow the suspect pool. That’s why it’s so important. But that link may not be as obvious as people think. He didn’t have to be “connected” to them in any way online to cyberstalk them. It’s very easy these days and a lot of kids make everything public. Twitter Instagram FB Snapchat etc. a cyber expert may never find any “connection” between perp and victims and yet this can definitely see be a completely undetectable one. They also need to look at who their mothers were communicating with online. A lot of creepers get obsessed with the kids of women who post tons of pix of their kids online and pretend to befriend the adult to get close to the kid.

 

[goldiegirl]

I'm sure this has been discussed to death, but were the girls, or either one individually, frequent visitors to that bridge?

 

[Spartygirl]

The Flora Fires were intentional IMO
I am not sure if related to Libby and Abby and probably aren't but according to LE--it was intentional

"Investigators said they have "solid persons of interest" in a devastating fatal house fire in Flora.
Wednesday marks two years since the fire on East Columbia Street.
The fire was ruled intentionally set and has been the source of controversy after some of the top investigators resigned. The home was engulfed in flames while a mother and her four daughters were still inside. The mother was the only want to make it out alive."
Investigators: 'Solid persons of interest' in Flora fatal fire 2 years later (wlfi.com)

 

[Angels27]

I can't tell you how these kinds of murders effect even the most seasoned LE officials. I have seen other's have to take a breath or get it under control as they did a presser about a murder or some heinous crime. They are human, until you are there, face to face with such horrible evil and what is done, you can't judge that. You never forget it either.

One thing I found interesting about the PC at year 2 was that altho the speaker appeared as tho he knew who the killer was or at least had a very good idea, close to the end he said he would think of the parents on his last breath. Which made me then think, either they have no clue who it is, or at least think they will never get a conviction. Why was he talking about his last breath before even completing the investigation.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I'm sure this has been discussed to death, but were the girls, or either one individually, frequent visitors to that bridge?

Libby apparently had crossed the bridge a number of times. Abby, though she had been to the trails and Deer Creek, had never crossed the bridge.

 

[stattlich1]

He probably went to the bridge that day knowing someone was going to be a victim, just not who.

This makes sense to me. It fits that he may have known the area, may even have been there a number of times before, waiting for all the things to be in place. It fits that he may have chosen this place for a reason. All speculation of course.

And though I find it easy to focus on the 'opportunity' part of the recent words from LE, I can just as easily focus on the 'circumstance'.

Was a message being sent to someone in Delphi?

Or do we simply have a serial killer running around out there? With no other relationship to the area other than he was just passing through? No, I'm not buying that for a minute. There is SOME connection. Some reason he chose this place. He may not have selected the girls, but he DID select the place.

 

[Angels27]

My intention is not to diminish this tragedy. But if a police officer breaks down in speaking about a tragedy, how effective would they be face-to-face with a perpetrator in an interview room? I greatly admire the skills required of police officers in order to do their jobs effectively and that’s all I’m going to write....but my opinion is it’s impossible for us to know if DC was suddenly shaken by something very specific or if in general, he displayed appropriate emotions due to the tragic circumstances.

Considering the PC was almost two years ago now, even though no arrest has occurred after changing course to the New Direction, DC’s presentation was obviously highly effective in that people are still reminiscing about it! In fact at the time he had many people certain an arrest was imminent...how did we misread him on that?

I wonder what the NEW DIRECTION was. And where did that come from all of a sudden. I wonder if they got new intel. We couldn’t really see a new direction tho and you’re right, they did say something like they were starting anew, which would make you think they have new intel. If they did they didn’t share it with us except the new sketch and the “guys” added to audio. Maybe the it took the FBI 2 years to be able to make some of the video clear enough to see the perps face more clearly. Brand new technology? Or was it a genealogy result that got a hit? Something caused them to deem this 2 year date a New Starting Point.

 

[Angels27]

"Once secured by law enforcement, no. I would surmise that the searchers did not immediately know what they had come upon."

I would like to discuss the above quote. What are some reasons searchers, who were at the time looking for two missing girls, saw something and "did not immediately know what they had come upon"?

Distance? Does he simply mean they were too far away, and upon getting closer were able to ID the girls?
Were the girls buried either fully or partially?
Gruesome, bloody and indistinguishable?
Other reasons?

the podcast says there were under leaves.

 

[TL4S]

The Flora Fires were intentional IMO
I am not sure if related to Libby and Abby and probably aren't but according to LE--it was intentional

"Investigators said they have "solid persons of interest" in a devastating fatal house fire in Flora.
Wednesday marks two years since the fire on East Columbia Street.
The fire was ruled intentionally set and has been the source of controversy after some of the top investigators resigned. The home was engulfed in flames while a mother and her four daughters were still inside. The mother was the only want to make it out alive."
Investigators: 'Solid persons of interest' in Flora fatal fire 2 years later (wlfi.com)

Not the exact quote I remember seeing, but it basically says the same thing. The fire was set intentionally, but without intention to kill the girls. At least in these stated opinions.

Justice for the Girls: 3 years later, no arrests after Flora girls die in fire - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

Vergon told I-Team 8 he believes the fire was an arson but that the goal was not to kill the children.

 

[Angels27]

I assume it's because they were far away. It is documented that they zoomed in from afar (I believe on the other side of the creek) with their phone. They are rumored to have spotted deer in the area and used the phone to zoom in on the deer and came upon the bodies. They may have not know if it was human remains, animal remains, or what it was at all.

Podcast says one of the friends of Libby’s grandfather spotted her tie dye shirt from afar and then zoomed in. How did he know she was wearing a tie dye shirt unless her sister remembered and mentioned it to LE who later mentioned it to everyone there.

 

[Angels27]

To me, the simplest explanation is “murders disguised as the work of a serial killer; IRL, plain murders”.

Or, “staging of a scene where one person dies in the process; when looked closer, the changes appear inflicted postmortem”.

If the scene was staged as if by a serial killer, maybe it was just that: staged, to throw cops off of his real targeted intent.

 

[Angels27]

Snipped by me
The scene has been described as so disturbing like no other, weird, odd and so forth. LE have also stated the crime scene still keeps some up at night...something that they will never be able to unsee. The latter is from podcasts chapter 2 - link previously posted.
I have no idea what the crime scene was like but the thought of it after hearing so much about it, kinda freaks me out.

Yeah it really makes you wonder. Maybe he dismembered them. Does anyone know if the funerals had closed or open caskets?

 

[TTF14]

Podcast says one of the friends of Libby’s grandfather spotted her tie dye shirt from afar and then zoomed in. How did he know she was wearing a tie dye shirt unless her sister remembered and mentioned it to LE who later mentioned it to everyone there.

Perhaps the shirt was noticed simply because it was a tie-dye shirt.....bright....stood out....?

 

[minazoe]

ok well, if you want kill in a certain age group, go where they hang out and wait.

but I agree the girls could have been stalked and I cant rule it
out...no matter what they say, because yes..they can click on a friend's kids , look at their friends and look up their houses, schools, vacations, sport venues, school schedules...jobs, parents, posts, parties upcoming invites... everything..

I can do it right now to a random Facebook contact...I can give you all kinds of info if that profile isn't locked..and most aren't.

so I am still on the fence, even though I respect their opinion,
they know everything we don't about it. mOO

 

[MsBetsy]

Podcast says one of the friends of Libby’s grandfather spotted her tie dye shirt from afar and then zoomed in. How did he know she was wearing a tie dye shirt unless her sister remembered and mentioned it to LE who later mentioned it to everyone there.

He may not have known what she was wearing. It probably caught his eye because it was colorful and stood out from the surroundings.

 

[Snoop Sister]

IMO for the Delphi situation it wasn't an actual tunnel it was kind of a bowl-like depression in the earth that was distinguished by the creek on one side and a higher ridge on the other.

Edited to add..whoever called it a culvert was probably thinking of the very high ridge above it as making the area somewhat like a huge ditch..

I think It was the sheriff that called it a culvert if I remember correctly. He was local to Delphi, so maybe that is what they call it there.

 

[Angels27]

He may not have known what she was wearing. It probably caught his eye because it was colorful and stood out from the surroundings.

It said he knew it was her tie dye shirt.

 

[Spartygirl]

IMO
Crime of opportunity: crime that is committed without planning when the perpetrator sees that they have a chance to commit the act at that moment and seizes it.
- since BG seemed prepared with possible tools to commit the murder, I don’t see it being a crime of opportunity (and not aware of anyone hunting/working or someone that would have the tools)

Victims of circumstance: an individual who suffers from ill consequences because of factors that were out of his control
- best example: criminal chose random house to rob but owner is home. Pertaining to the case, IF it was going to happen regardless and they happen to be the victim, then I can only think of a lying and wait type scenario. I’m sure you can think of more scenarios but I couldn’t.

Does his answer really rule out everything we think it does?
(I’m not referring to SM and admit I’m probably bias since I think it’s someone who knew they would at the bridge)

I think I missed some posts so I’ll go back and see if it’s already been discussed but if not, what are the scenarios still possible after his statement?
ETA: IMO

BBM- I agree with you.
If it was just a random, chance by circumstance, a BG running around abducting and killing young girls, Then why didn't LE tell the town, the county and the State to be careful as there is a maniac on the lose ???
NOPE-- LE never said that in the beginning.

Plus... there were multiple other young people out there that day so why did he pass one girl or 2 girls or a group by, and get A & L ??
JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Yeah it really makes you wonder. Maybe he dismembered them. Does anyone know if the funerals had closed or open caskets?

OPEN--well, at the visitations, they were Open..
not sure of the funerals as I cant remember but I am searching my notes