Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[photographer4]

I think he must have planted something pointing at one person, and only one person. I remember TL saying "the community would be shocked to find out who it was". This tells me that there was something left, intentionally, that belonged to a certain person, and it was recognizable. Maybe the first search was related to it, not sure.

But very soon the LE realized that they were wrong. This is when they started looking at, essentially, a transient (DN). So they did follow that route, maybe an "outside" SK... so I assume that whatever was left, pointed at one specific person.

And much later, they realized their mistake. I think that 2019 PC conference put them at stage 1.

I think that initially, they, indeed, had about 5 POIs, but later they narrowed it down. Maybe 1-2, but they feel they know who he is.

BTW. I never understood what the phrase "we were onto something from the very beginning" meant. But now I wonder if one of the LE working the Delphi case has naturally strong intuition. Don't know who it is.

I always wondered why Kim Riley retired...

RBBM
So let's dissect that statement I bolded. Does this mean that something identifiable was left? They know specifically who the culprit is? Does this mean they know, but don't have enough to go after him?
OR:
Does it mean that they imagine that the town is going to be shocked one day to learn it was someone from their own community?

Its an important question because LE have also stated the culprit might be at a press conference, they may have spoken with him or someone close to him.... If they knew for sure who he was, why the cat and mouse game? They've said they feel its obvious someone knows or suspects who it is and is too afraid to call.... ('Epitome of evil': Delphi double murder still a mystery 3 years later)

Why not go talk to that person directly? Get the girl's family members to talk to that person (if they know or suspect who that person is who knows the culprit and is too afraid to come forward!).

 

[Yemelyan]

I don’t know tons about this, but according to this article, “Cell Tower Triangulation-How It Works” using three towers is great, but two towers is possible but not quite as accurate, but more accurate than I thought it might be.


“Here is how a single-tower location would work. The cell tower has determined that the signal is coming from the γ sector, and that the origin of the signal is approximately 4 miles from the tower. This would place the caller within the yellow band, which you can see is 8.4 miles long and “about” ½ mile wide – an area of 4.2 sq. miles.



If the cell phone in question is also negotiating with a second cell tower at the same time (and this must be the case), the ability to locate the phone gets much better. Here is a diagram of the situation when the phone is 4 miles from the “orange” tower in the γ sector, and 5 miles from the “blue” tower in the α sector. This will place the phone in an oval (shown in red) whose center is the intersection of the swept areas of the two towers’ approximate distance bands.



If a third tower is brought into play, and the phone in question is determined to be 5 miles from the (third) “green” tower, this diagram shows that the area of location can be estimated even more closely. Keep in mind that the phone must be negotiating with all three towers at the same time.

If the oval in the first photo - one tower - is 4.2 square miles, that's way too large of an area to pinpoint a phone location to a particular building (as we know), so what's the area of that second oval? Where the phone is signaling two towers? Because we know only two towers existed at the time of the murders. Does your source material, where you got this, say?

 

[photographer4]

Deleted as it was a duplicate post.

 

[Pyschsandi]

This is the second Gray Hughes’ video where he has stabilized the bridge to give a better feel of BG’s mannerisms and lateral movements. He exported each of the 48 frames from the video released by ISP and lined up each frame using the forked tree as a reference. The audio file is included. It’s only 3:22 in length, the balance consisting of the tip line details.

With numerous repetitions, it allows you a longer look at his face. With the sun on his face, he now appears younger to me.

When BG says hey guys, the tone of the voice sounds like there may have been a question after he said that. Listen to the tone of his voice and tell me what you think.

 

[Yemelyan]

When BG says hey guys, the tone of the voice sounds like there may have been a question after he said that. Listen to the tone of his voice and tell me what you think.

I think the rising tone in "guys" is him trying to get their attention.

 

[catch_22]

If the oval in the first photo - one tower - is 4.2 square miles, that's way too large of an area to pinpoint a phone location to a particular building (as we know), so what's the area of that second oval? Where the phone is signaling two towers? Because we know only two towers existed at the time of the murders. Does your source material, where you got this, say?

My estimation would be about 1 sq. mile for the second pic and 0.3 sq. mile on the third pic. So even with 3 towers, we are talking about an area more than 100 football fields.

That being said, I think those pics are just generic examples, probably not to scale, and probably not super-accurate.

I'm no expert, but I've never known tower pings to be super-accurate. If you look at picture 1, you can see that the phone is in about a 1-mile swath. So the tower "thinks" the phone is 4 miles away, but the apparent margin of error means that the phone is somewhere between 3.5 and 4.5 miles from the tower. Not super accurate. Again, not sure how precise these drawings are.

I thought tower pings could only narrow down the area to within maybe a few hundred feet or so. This might require ideal conditions (number of towers, geometry of phone to towers, distance of phone from towers, etc.), but I'm not sure.

I just realized that I'm not even sure if it is legal for LE to get the ping info of every phone that pinged off of a tower, so this whole point may be moot. : (

 

[Charlot123]

Even when we do have "real" facts, some people disregard them because they don't fit their pet theories of the case.

So we would likely have the same amount of questions and the same amount of muddying.

TBH, he muddying ISP’s own “the tale of two sketches” created has set the bar very high...
What we are doing here is not muddying, it is "chewing on an old toy" in the absence of new information

With periodical protuberances of "sensational information", and then back to the old stuff...

But I don't mind, I just want to be sure that they do solve the case.

 

[Yemelyan]

My estimation would be about 1 sq. mile for the second pic and 0.3 sq. mile on the third pic. So even with 3 towers, we are talking about an area more than 100 football fields.

That being said, I think those pics are just generic examples, probably not to scale, and probably not super-accurate.

I'm no expert, but I've never known tower pings to be super-accurate. If you look at picture 1, you can see that the phone is in about a 1-mile swath. So the tower "thinks" the phone is 4 miles away, but the apparent margin of error means that the phone is somewhere between 3.5 and 4.5 miles from the tower. Not super accurate. Again, not sure how precise these drawings are.

I thought tower pings could only narrow down the area to within maybe a few hundred feet or so. This might require ideal conditions (number of towers, geometry of phone to towers, distance of phone from towers, etc.), but I'm not sure.

I just realized that I'm not even sure if it is legal for LE to get the ping info of every phone that pinged off of a tower, so this whole point may be moot. : (

It likely would have been legal for LE to do a "tower dump" right after the murders in 2017. However, this area of the law is rapidly changing and in fact, changed in 2018 so that LE can no longer troll for all cell phones in the area. They can get a warrant, with probable cause, to look for a particular cell number associated with a POI, however. So they could only do it now if they had a specific person in mind. It's also unclear how or if they can use any data that they might have gotten in 2017. Some courts are ruling this information inadmissible and others are allowing it depending on the course of the investigation.

But what you wrote is what I was expecting and thinking too, that LE likely were not able to pinpoint a location of a cell phone down to a single building. In addition, an article in the Washington Post about the use of cell phone data to solve crimes has this to say:

But numerous experts and telecommunications workers say the FBI analysis techniques are wrong; Cellphone signals do not always use the closest tower when in use but instead are routed by a computerized switching center to the tower that best serves the phone network based on a variety of factors. In addition, the range of cell towers varies greatly, and tower ranges overlap significantly, and the size and shape of a tower's range shifts constantly, experts say....."It's not possible," Daniel [a forensic expert quoted in the article] said, "for anyone to reliably determine the particular coverage area of a cell-tower antenna after the fact based solely on historical cell-tower location data or call detail records." He said weather, time of day, types of equipment and technology, and call traffic all affect an antenna's range.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...8be93c-faf3-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html

 

[Charlot123]

When BG says hey guys, the tone of the voice sounds like there may have been a question after he said that. Listen to the tone of his voice and tell me what you think.

To me, it would go with typical for this country "everything is OK" greeting. Hand raised, palm open ("I don't have a gun"), smile ("I am friendly and doing OK"), "hi" ("I don't know you but I am a friend"). (When my husband, jogging in the "old country", automatically, greeted another jogger in such a way, all he got was gruff "Dude, do I know you?")

But here, the message is "friendliness" and "all is OK". JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Not to be flippant but probably because he is old enough to retire?

State police have a mandatory retirement age (not sure what it is in Indiana now but it was age 65 pretty recently), and individuals can retire from the state police as early as 50 or 52 depending on how long they have served. Kim Riley is a 34 year veteran trooper and he says he served part-time for 3 years prior to that: 34 year veteran of Indiana State Police retiring from Lafayette Post

So he is definitely over the age that he is eligible to retire with full benefits and probably getting close to mandatory retirement age for a trooper.

He also told us in DTH that he took a planned vacation about one month into the murder investigation. Why would he do that??? Because he's the press officer and is really not that involved in the investigation; you can say the same thing for DC. Don't be surprised if DC retires before this is solved, and for the same reason. Also he is a political appointee and his role may change if the governor changes.

Re. DC - I feel sympathy towards his situation. All such jobs are political, I assume, and people come and go, or, if they are social, grow on their jobs. But can you imagine anyone, ever, getting such a case on his watch?

But I think his job is at least safe, because the governor appears to be trying to improve Indiana's tattered economy. Or so it seems to an outsider.

 

[JudgeJudi]

We don’t know if BG had a phone with him, but if he did, I believe it was switched off. If he was local and familiar with the trails from previous visits, he wouldn’t have needed GPS for directions on the trails, but if this was his first visit, GPS would have been very useful for getting around.

Kelsi said her sister’s cell phone did ping on two towers, but said this was only because of the small size of the town.

“It’s not like her phone was moving around town — that didn’t happen. Her phone was in one place but it was pinging from different ones because of how close together the towers are.”

Libby German’s Sister Addresses Rumors About Delphi Murders On YouTube Livestream | Oxygen Official Site

 

[MissMarp1e]

RBBM
So let's dissect that statement I bolded. Does this mean that something identifiable was left? They know specifically who the culprit is? Does this mean they know, but don't have enough to go after him?
OR:
Does it mean that they imagine that the town is going to be shocked one day to learn it was someone from their own community?

Its an important question because LE have also stated the culprit might be at a press conference, they may have spoken with him or someone close to him.... If they knew for sure who he was, why the cat and mouse game? They've said they feel its obvious someone knows or suspects who it is and is too afraid to call.... ('Epitome of evil': Delphi double murder still a mystery 3 years later)

Why not go talk to that person directly? Get the girl's family members to talk to that person (if they know or suspect who that person is who knows the culprit and is too afraid to come forward!).

 

[MissMarp1e]

I heard that the former district attorney said that the killer left two or three signatures at the crime scene. That does not tell them who did it but will tell them if another crime is committed And the killer leaves the same signatures that they will know it’s him. They made a point of saying that the modus operandi is different from signatures.

 

[JudgeJudi]

This was stated at the very beginning of the PC, before DC proceeded to talk about the New Direction and introduced the new suspect sketch and all that. So it appeared to me they were simply seeking to reach out to somebody who parked at that lot from 12 to 5, perhaps somebody who’d earlier provided information, even a witness who they’d lost contact with. Without giving away any other identifying information - which obviously would lead people to believe this person was the suspect or directly connected to him - so the request was made as innocuously as possible including no names or other details.JMO

I think DC was hoping someone could provide a description of the driver of the car, and with a lot of luck, he would match the appearance of BG as seen in the video. If I were looking for that person/car and wanted assistance from the public, I would have said WTTE "We're looking for a (colour) (make) and (model) car and it’s driver which was parked …”. While many wouldn't remember a brand, colour tends to stand out in many people's memory. I just tested this theory on 3 people who all stated colour.

 

[No it's not]

I heard that the former district attorney said that the killer left two or three signatures at the crime scene. That does not tell them who did it but will tell them if another crime is committed And the killer leaves the same signatures that they will know it’s him. They made a point of saying that the modus operandi is different from signatures.

Robert Ives, former DA, on Dr Oz Show, yesterday, 2-26-2021

"..there were 3 or 4 physical characteristics of the crime scene.."

-Nin

 

[MissMarp1e]

I have not seen a map on the items they found at the crime scene… The shoe, the cell phone, the piece of clothing in the water. There might be something else that I’m unaware of right now. I wonder if they put these items on a map in relation to the crime scene if it will show that Libby was leaving a path towards her and Abby. If that would be so, Libby would be even more of a hero than we already think she is.

 

[news buff]

Even when we do have "real" facts, some people disregard them because they don't fit their pet theories of the case.

So we would likely have the same amount of questions and the same amount of muddying.

I agree that some people don't keep an open mind. It is important to aways question however.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think DC was hoping someone could provide a description of the driver of the car, and with a lot of luck, he would match the appearance of BG as seen in the video. If I were looking for that person/car and wanted assistance from the public, I would have said WTTE "We're looking for a (colour) (make) and (model) car and it’s driver which was parked …”. While many wouldn't remember a brand, colour tends to stand out in many people's memory. I just tested this theory on 3 people who all stated colour.

I don’t know but it would seem a lax investigation from the very onset if LE didn’t focus on attempting to identify every vehicle and driver parked in close proximity to the trail system that day, which would include the parking lot at the old CPS building. It seems a real shot in the dark to expect somebody to come forward more than two years later with a reliable instant recall of vehicles parked there, who hadn’t thought it important enough to tell LE initially.

That’s why I think LE hoped to reconnect with somebody they’d already spoken with...so then that person contacted LE as requested and that’s why the vehicle nor the driver have never been mentioned again. JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I agree that some people don't keep an open mind. It is important to aways question however.

I agree with you, it is important to question, especially in a case like this where LE has been really stingy or vague with facts. If I post a bit of speculation here that goes against what's been documented in MSM, I'd hope somebody would correct me so that rumors don't get started. If I post a theory that has some holes in it, I'd hope someone would point out the logical inconsistencies so that if it's a poor theory, we can all move on. And I have no doubt they will.

I think the trouble arises because people cling to outdated or speculative information because they've gotten entrenched with certain ideas, but that's human nature I guess.

 

[news buff]

Can anyone point me to the drop off area across from Mears farm? It is not used anymore, but it is where the girls were dropped off. Can find the farm, but am confused on the parking drop off area.