Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[MynameisMud]

Something that I always wondering just judging by the audio "guys ....down the hill"

Prior to libby recording this encounter, I wonder judging by the authoritative tone and fairly composed demeanour- did he perhaps use his awareness that it's frowned upon to cross that bridge to pass himself off as a police or park officer in order to lure the girls off the bridge and into the woods.

I myself as a grown adult would fall for something like that, especially if I was going somewhere that's forbidden.

 

[Wolverbear]

The Carroll County article may also address this, key word MAY, TL didn't really want to confirm:

Q. No matter how distant, do you have the man walking on the bridge, videoed by Libby, on any other video?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.

Q. Why have no other photos from Libby’s phone been released to the public?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet

In my opinion, the reason there is no "video" from "guys...down the hill" is that it wasn't focused on him at that time, may have been pointing straight up or down because he was closer and she was trying to conceal it. JMO

I'd also attach (IIRC) TL's comments to these responses that they are still working on things within the video/phone (if it wasn't him in the Q&A it was someone with the case saying something along those line). Personally I think Libby did happen to capture BG at another point and they have had less luck on making that image(s) usable to a point where it'd be helpful to the public. For example, perhaps if they had a akward encounter with him near the trailhead, Libby may have gotten a quick photo of him walking away from them or not fully facing them.

 

[TL4S]

Libby took the video via selfie camera backwards over her shoulder, while BG was approaching, according to Alexis Mcadams/ABC7:

https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/887816655836938240?s=04

That is IMO the 'presence of mind' LE is attributing to her.

-Nin

The fact that the girls were talking about him at the time, according to family statements via sources like GH, also leads me to think L was, indeed, attempting to capture him on video. I don't think she was foreseeing it being used as evidence to identify her soon-to-be killer, but he was apparently not a comfortable presence to them, so she videoed him intentionally, IMO.

 

[Charlot123]

I've never completely let go of LE requesting the autopsy of Paul Etter in July '19. LE said his name had come up in tips prior to his final crime, but also said he wasn't a priority as a POI. He's never been brought up since, so likely not the killer, but his actions, timing, and online activity was odd. What could LE have been looking for in an autopsy that might be helpful over a DNA sample? Or is that how they collect DNA in a case like that? IDK.

Anything that is not seen under the clothes, I assume.
- skin disease (e.g. psoriasis)
- tattoos
- scars
- Maybe, evidence of a certain prior illness?
- or some problem leading to unusual gait?
- certain asymmetry of R and L foot?
- he spat on the bridge. We don’t know what was in the sputum (Tb? Lung cancer?)
- last but not least, vasectomy, or issues causing impotence?

I don't know where they got the information, but hair color is one major thing that didn't change through two sketches...

I can only imagine (and the easiest answer is obvious - whoever the witnesses saw was so high on stimulants that his pupils were wide).

However, I hope, and hence, imagine. In Parabon’s phenotypic analysis, if the eye color would come as “green/hazel”, as it sometimes happens, they’d have to say, “unknown”.

 

[Wolverbear]

Re: BG possibly having a gun.

IMO the sad reality is that it really wouldn't even have to be real to achieve the desired goal in this type of situation. Many AirSoft type guns can look extremely realistic. It's a minor detail but I've always considered it when thinking about potential weapons.

 

[TL4S]

I'd also attach (IIRC) TL's comments to these responses that they are still working on things within the video/phone (if it wasn't him in the Q&A it was someone with the case saying something along those line). Personally I think Libby did happen to capture BG at another point and they have had less luck on making that image(s) usable to a point where it'd be helpful to the public. For example, perhaps if they had a akward encounter with him near the trailhead, Libby may have gotten a quick photo of him walking away from them or not fully facing them.

It was in part 10 of DTH podcast where TL said they were still looking at items in the video. I felt, in the context, that he meant the bridge video, but I could be wrong.

ETA: WS is doing funky things with my posts today...

 

[Wolverbear]

It was in part 10 of DTH podcast where TL said they were still looking at items in the video. I felt, in the context, that he meant the bridge video, but I could be wrong.
to-be killer, but he was apparently not a comfortable presence to them, so she videoed him intentionally, IMO.

Thank you, yes it was DTH where he mentioned it.

I agree that in the context of the podcast he was likely referencing continued work on the video/audio to try and improve it further. When TL provided those evasive answers to the Comet Q & A it perked my ears up. If they're working on the video/audio regularly then I would assume they work on the other photos/videos/audio recorded during the trip (and I assume there is much more Libby took than the 2 pictures posted to SC and the video) in order something was picked up randomly.

 

[Charlot123]

Something that I always wondering just judging by the audio "guys ....down the hill"

Prior to libby recording this encounter, I wonder judging by the authoritative tone and fairly composed demeanour- did he perhaps use his awareness that it's frowned upon to cross that bridge to pass himself off as a police or park officer in order to lure the girls off the bridge and into the woods.

I myself as a grown adult would fall for something like that, especially if I was going somewhere that's forbidden.

It was enough for him to say that he was doing repair work on the bridge, if he was an adult. “And please, move further, down the hill”

 

[Boxer]

My hunch all along has been that he didn't carry a weapon. Maybe a knife as a lot of men carry knives anyway. I don't think he came specifically armed, though. He didn't need to, imo.

jmo

MOO. Appears to me has a deep grip handgun in his right jacket pocket.

 

[Diddian]

I've never completely let go of LE requesting the autopsy of Paul Etter in July '19. LE said his name had come up in tips prior to his final crime, but also said he wasn't a priority as a POI. He's never been brought up since, so likely not the killer, but his actions, timing, and online activity was odd. What could LE have been looking for in an autopsy that might be helpful over a DNA sample? Or is that how they collect DNA in a case like that? IDK.

I also have not let go of LE requesting not just DNA but also the autopsy of PE. What would they look for in autopsy beyond DNA?

I wonder if the perpetrator left some evidence at the crime scene that through testing revealed he is a regular user of illicit substances that are not commonly used by other offenders (i.e., not marijuana, nor meth, nor opiates, but something like anabolic steroids). So, they wanted to check PE for those substances.

To my knowledge, LE has never indicated PE has been cleared of suspicion of involvement even as they continue to pursue tips relating to the perpetrator portrayed in the sketch released in April 2019. So, it may be that they have still not closed the door on the possibility of more than one person involved.

 

[Boxer]

I also have not let go of LE requesting not just DNA but also the autopsy of PE. What would they look for in autopsy beyond DNA?

I wonder if the perpetrator left some evidence at the crime scene that through testing revealed he is a regular user of illicit substances that are not commonly used by other offenders (i.e., not marijuana, nor meth, nor opiates, but something like anabolic steroids). So, they wanted to check PE for those substances.

To my knowledge, LE has never indicated PE has been cleared of suspicion of involvement even as they continue to pursue tips relating to the perpetrator portrayed in the sketch released in April 2019. So, it may be that they have still not closed the door on the possibility of more than one person involved.

Interesting. Yes.
Hope the evidence such as any area the suspect might have urinated while loitering around was collected.
I know they basically lifted all the forest floor and leaves around the CS for analysis.

 

[Gypsy86]

I FEEL THAT IF HE KNEW SHE HAD RECORDED HIM HE WOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING WITH IT OR TO IT SO NO EVIDENVE WOULD BE FOUND. THATS WHY I THINK THIS WAS DONE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND HE KILLED THEM AND LEFT THE AREA. MAYBE THE PHONE WAS LOST WHEN L TRIED TO ESCAPE AND THATNWAS A WAY FOR HER TO LET NPEOPLE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BECAUSE THIS CHILD SEEMED VERY SMART. I THINK SHE GOT A BAD VIBE FROM HIM AND STARTED FILMING CAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE HIM FROM A DISTANCE BECAUSE IN THE PHOTO OF ONE OF THE GIRLS YOU CAN SEE THAT THEIR IS SOMEONE WALKING DOWN THE BRIDE IN THEIR DIRECTION. AND AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPEN OPINION. BUT HE S NOT FROM THERE. I DONT WANT TO BASH THE LAW INFORCMENTS OPINION ABOUT THE SITUATION BEACAUSE THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT THE CASE THAN WE DO BUT WHAT IF THEY ARE LOOKING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. AND APPARENTLY IF THEY HAVE DNA HE IS NOT IN THE SYSTEM NOR IS ANYONE RELATED TO HIM. THIS IS A HIGH PROFILE CASE SO IN THAT CASE HIS DNA SHOULD BE TESTED AGAINST EVERYTHING. BUT THEN AGAIN THAT IS WHERE THIS FUNDING COMES FROM. THAT SHOULD NOT COST A DIME IN ANY CASE

 

[Yemelyan]

I DONT WANT TO BASH THE LAW INFORCMENTS OPINION ABOUT THE SITUATION BEACAUSE THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT THE CASE THAN WE DO BUT WHAT IF THEY ARE LOOKING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. AND APPARENTLY IF THEY HAVE DNA HE IS NOT IN THE SYSTEM NOR IS ANYONE RELATED TO HIM. THIS IS A HIGH PROFILE CASE SO IN THAT CASE HIS DNA SHOULD BE TESTED AGAINST EVERYTHING. BUT THEN AGAIN THAT IS WHERE THIS FUNDING COMES FROM. THAT SHOULD NOT COST A DIME IN ANY CASE

Snipped and bolded by me....

Not sure if this what you meant by "the system," but Indiana is not one of the states that allows familial matching in criminal databases of convicted felons. So there is no legal way of knowing if the sample they have is an "association," or presumed relative, of any known felon.

Other states do allow this type of familial searching in their own state criminal databases: New York, California, Colorado, Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. And Massachusetts just passed a bill yesterday that will start allowing it. Familial DNA testing puts elusive killers behind bars. But only 12 states use it.

 

[Gypsy86]

that honeslty for this case really sucks. that needs to be changed

 

[Nancy1954]

There are only a few seconds between "guys" and "down the hill." This is according to AW, who heard this part of the audio in its entirety. She said BG says "guys," the girls respond with a "teenage thing, like 'huh'?" And then he says "down the hill." Her interview where she described this is linked in these threads, it's the one with Jason Hebert.

So, TL's answer that "guys...down the hill" was said at the south end of the bridge confirms the whole phrase was said in the same location.

I realize that there are only a few seconds between "guys" and "down the hill," I'm curious as to why LE might go to the trouble of putting a sound like (to me) shattering glass in those few seconds instead of the innocent enough sounding "huh?" from the girls? Is it possible that they might have been trying to cover up something else? It just seems strange to me is all.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

I realize that there are only a few seconds between "guys" and "down the hill," I'm curious as to why LE might go to the trouble of putting a sound like (to me) shattering glass in those few seconds instead of the innocent enough sounding "huh?" from the girls? Is it possible that they might have been trying to cover up something else? It just seems strange to me is all.

JMO

I think it might possibly be out of respect for the families. JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

that honeslty for this case really sucks. that needs to be changed

It appears that genetic genealogy, like what caught the Golden State Killer, would likely be legal in IN as that allows people to opt into public genealogy databases. But the familial searches of criminal databases get into a weird legal area because it relies on the assumption that if you are involved in illegal activities, there's a greater chance than not that your very close relatives are also criminals. From that article cited above:

Familial DNA as an investigative tool has also faced opposition from civil libertarians, who worry it will be used indiscriminately, casting unwelcome attention on the relatives of crime suspects and particularly on people of color, because of their disproportionate representation in those databases.

 

[Gypsy86]

i a

I realize that there are only a few seconds between "guys" and "down the hill," I'm curious as to why LE might go to the trouble of putting a sound like (to me) shattering glass in those few seconds instead of the innocent enough sounding "huh?" from the girls? Is it possible that they might have been trying to cover up something else? It just seems strange to me is all.

JMO

i agree. there was alot that was taken out of the publics reach. and im more than sure whatever it is they are holding back on is excactly what we need to identify him, possibly and hopefully without them knowing. there is just 1 missing thing that can blow this case out of the water

 

[Yemelyan]

I think it might possibly be out of respect for the families. JMO

Agree, and I don't think LE want the public analyzing anything the girls say, they want 100% focus on the words said by the killer.

 

[Nancy1954]

I think it might possibly be out of respect for the families. JMO

Thank you, TL4S.. it makes good sense.