Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[Inthedetails]

I agree. In my opinion he had a hold of one of them and other one listened because she was scared her friend will be hurt. Often this itself works to gain hold of two or more people. He might have also mentioned he has a weapon but didn't. Often the unknown of what other person might do is enough to listen to them. I also don't think he used a weapon to get them down the hill but rather used their fear and their friendship against them. my opinion.

And the girls might have been thinking, Libby's dad would be there soon. Of course he had no idea what was happening or where to find them, but they might have felt a little reassured that dad would be nearby soon and they just needed to get through a scary but short period of time with this creepy guy before returning to safety.

Even as they were directed down the hill, they likely had little idea of the true danger, and BG likely didn't let them know either (which is manipulation).

jmo

 

[Fika]

And the girls might have been thinking, Libby's dad would be there soon. Of course he had no idea what was happening or where to find them, but they might have felt a little reassured that dad would be nearby soon and they just needed to get through a scary but short period of time with this creepy guy before returning to safety.

Even as they were directed down the hill, they likely had little idea of the true danger, and BG likely didn't let them know either (which is manipulation).

jmo

Yes and it was daylight and a trail. They probably thought either dad is going to be there soon or someone else is going to be around. I agree with you that they didn't know the danger until much later. That's why I found initially so confusing why they filmed him.
Moo

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes and it was daylight and a trail. They probably thought either dad is going to be there soon or someone else is going to be around. I agree with you that they didn't know the danger until much later. That's why I found initially so confusing why they filmed him.
Moo

My thought has been they were catfished, but I've been swayed by the recent discussions about the girls liking to photo/film people to show others later....but why him? He's not that strange looking other than we know he's BG. Why would he be interesting to show others later?

jmo

 

[Fika]

My thought has been they were catfished, but I've been swayed by the recent discussions about the girls liking to photo/film people to show others later....but why him? He's not that strange looking other than we know he's BG. Why would he be interesting to show others later?

jmo

Someone before suggested ( sorry can't remember who it was) that he might sing or talk to himself. I think this could be plausible explanation. I'm not sure how easy/usual was to cross the bridge. Maybe girls thought he is crossing it in unusual way too fast for example with hands in pockets? I agree I think he looks just like any man. There is many odd things about this case and video is one of them. Could also be that he entered the frame and they wanted to take a video of someone crossing the bridge? Decided to keep filming.
I guess it's something we might never know.
Moo

 

[TL4S]

Someone before suggested ( sorry can't remember who it was) that he might sing or talk to himself. I think this could be plausible explanation. I'm not sure how easy/usual was to cross the bridge. Maybe girls thought he is crossing it in unusual way too fast for example with hands in pockets? I agree I think he looks just like any man. There is many odd things about this case and video is one of them. Could also be that he entered the frame and they wanted to take a video of someone crossing the bridge? Decided to keep filming.
I guess it's something we might never know.
Moo

I've wondered about two other possibilities he might have done:

1) Urinated over or exposed himself in some other way on the bridge.

2) Spoken/yelled something up at them from below the bridge, like from the ground on the north side. I've heard there are fishing areas and/or worn paths to the creek's edge on the north side.

 

[Angels27]

Food for thought. The previous Friday was also a day off of school. <modsnip> Maybe the perp went to bridge Friday waiting for them, but for some reason they didn’t go. So he went back Monday. Also, another possibility is, if Libby was communicating with someone who had often spoke of meeting at bridge and all of a sudden he ghosts her by closing account, this might trigger a young girl to go there just to see who he was, she may even have been “falling” for him.

This would not exclude any motive on the part of perp. Still in play could be:

1. predator, catfisher, known or unknown to girls.

2. man on a mission: either needs to shut one or both girls up, or seeking revenge against one girl or someone close to her, and needs to due this deed for himself or for someone else.


I’m leaning heavily toward #2.

 

[Fika]

I've wondered about two other possibilities he might have done:

1) Urinated over or exposed himself in some other way on the bridge.

2) Spoken/yelled something up at them from below the bridge, like from the ground on the north side. I've heard there are fishing areas and/or worn paths to the creek's edge on the north side.

Could be that they seen him doing something strange /suspicious on their way. When seen him again they might have thought oh there he is again lets see if he does it again something similar etc. And started to film. That would explain how he knew they are alone because he have seen them before. He might have made them uncomfortable but they didn't feel threatened in any way. My opinion only.

 

[Inthedetails]

SN buddy of Libby’s closed his account that same Friday, 3 days prior to murder.

snipped

What is SN?

jmo

 

[photographer4]

Below is a snip of conversation from DHT:

DTH:
I want to go back to the video for a moment. Have you seen the whole video?

Sgt. Kim Riley:
Yes.

DTH:
Obviously, without telling us the parts that you don’t want to release, can you tell us what that’s like to watch that video?

Sgt. Kim Riley:
It was scary. Uh, I guess would be one way to put it. Just [pause] seeing, um, you know—seeing, just seeing the feelings that were going through the girls at the time. I’m not going to say which one, in particular. But, just knowing that—I, you know, just knowing what they knew is—is just, is just frightening for, uh, a 13- or 14-year old girl to know.

**********************************
What did the girls know, and how quickly did they know it?? This quote makes me think that something was pre-setup for the victims. Any victims and these girls just happened to be the victims. Maybe he originally planned on one victim, but two came along. Who knows? Additionally, how do you see the feelings that were going through the girls at the time unless there was a video, of the girls?? This begs the question: what the hell was on the video that allows LE to see the feelings that were going through the girls at the time, or one girl in particular? Did Lib capture some video of Abby as they were taken by the guy? Did she capture part of the crime scene pre-mortem? How did she do it without BG seeing / seizing the phone?

So... could one of the signatures be, as a wild possibility, that BG took the phone and recorded the girls reactions to whatever he was showing them / where he led them to? Maybe a scene was already set up? Then he put the phone back in a pocket or wherever LE found it?

That would surely be above and beyond what is necessary to commit the murders. It would surely shock those who saw it. It would fit as a signature, no?

I realize we have no idea, because LE hasn't told us, but is it POSSIBLE?

 

[Angels27]

snipped

What is SN?

jmo

Snapchat

 

[Inthedetails]

Snapchat

Could it be that LE can't identify that person but can at least pinpoint the ISP for the deleted account was local?
idk

jmo

 

[photographer4]

DBM

 

[SouthernMom]

I’m still leaning towards this being someone more like Ted Bundy, Joseph Duncan, or even Israel Keyes. I don’t believe they recognized this person at all. I feel like they felt uncomfortable, did not know him, and that’s why they video taped him.
Just my humble opinion and all that.

 

[photographer4]

Below is a snip of conversation from DHT:

DTH:
I want to go back to the video for a moment. Have you seen the whole video?

Sgt. Kim Riley:
Yes.

DTH:
Obviously, without telling us the parts that you don’t want to release, can you tell us what that’s like to watch that video?

Sgt. Kim Riley:
It was scary. Uh, I guess would be one way to put it. Just [pause] seeing, um, you know—seeing, just seeing the feelings that were going through the girls at the time. I’m not going to say which one, in particular. But, just knowing that—I, you know, just knowing what they knew is—is just, is just frightening for, uh, a 13- or 14-year old girl to know.

**********************************
What did the girls know, and how quickly did they know it?? This quote makes me think that something was pre-setup for the victims. Any victims and these girls just happened to be the victims. Maybe he originally planned on one victim, but two came along. Who knows? Additionally, how do you see the feelings that were going through the girls at the time unless there was a video, of the girls?? This begs the question: what the hell was on the video that allows LE to see the feelings that were going through the girls at the time, or one girl in particular? Did Lib capture some video of Abby as they were taken by the guy? Did she capture part of the crime scene pre-mortem? How did she do it without BG seeing / seizing the phone?

So... could one of the signatures be, as a wild possibility, that BG took the phone and recorded the girls reactions to whatever he was showing them / where he led them to? Maybe a scene was already set up? Then he put the phone back in a pocket or wherever LE found it?

That would surely be above and beyond what is necessary to commit the murders. It would surely shock those who saw it. It would fit as a signature, no?

I realize we have no idea, because LE hasn't told us, but is it POSSIBLE?

Building on this: if BG took a video of the girls and left it for LE to find, is it possible he attempted to delete the things showing him, as captured by the kids? He may have thought if he deleted them, they were gone - may not have realized they could be brought back fairly easily.... It'd be interesting to have seen the faces of people watching the news when his photo / walk video came out!

 

[Inthedetails]

Below is a snip of conversation from DHT:

DTH:
I want to go back to the video for a moment. Have you seen the whole video?

Sgt. Kim Riley:
Yes.

DTH:
Obviously, without telling us the parts that you don’t want to release, can you tell us what that’s like to watch that video?

Sgt. Kim Riley:
It was scary. Uh, I guess would be one way to put it. Just [pause] seeing, um, you know—seeing, just seeing the feelings that were going through the girls at the time. I’m not going to say which one, in particular. But, just knowing that—I, you know, just knowing what they knew is—is just, is just frightening for, uh, a 13- or 14-year old girl to know.

**********************************
What did the girls know, and how quickly did they know it?? This quote makes me think that something was pre-setup for the victims. Any victims and these girls just happened to be the victims. Maybe he originally planned on one victim, but two came along. Who knows? Additionally, how do you see the feelings that were going through the girls at the time unless there was a video, of the girls?? This begs the question: what the hell was on the video that allows LE to see the feelings that were going through the girls at the time, or one girl in particular? Did Lib capture some video of Abby as they were taken by the guy? Did she capture part of the crime scene pre-mortem? How did she do it without BG seeing / seizing the phone?

So... could one of the signatures be, as a wild possibility, that BG took the phone and recorded the girls reactions to whatever he was showing them / where he led them to? Maybe a scene was already set up? Then he put the phone back in a pocket or wherever LE found it?

That would surely be above and beyond what is necessary to commit the murders. It would surely shock those who saw it. It would fit as a signature, no?

I realize we have no idea, because LE hasn't told us, but is it POSSIBLE?

I would not read too much into the "seeing" part. Just this morning I said to my husband that I heard there was a tornado in Georgia last night, but I didn't hear anything. I read about it.

My hunch is the sounds were so raw and disturbing that you could understand (or see) the girls' experience vividly in your mind. Maybe there are glimpses in video as well if Libby was able to do that, but my hunch (only a hunch) is that BG did not film anything himself.

But if he did....that means possible fingerprints and/or touch DNA, so that would be a good thing.

Awful to think about.

jmo

Edited to correct "would" to "would not." Different meaning!

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Below is a snip of conversation from DHT:

DTH:
I want to go back to the video for a moment. Have you seen the whole video?

Sgt. Kim Riley:
Yes.

DTH:
Obviously, without telling us the parts that you don’t want to release, can you tell us what that’s like to watch that video?

Sgt. Kim Riley:
It was scary. Uh, I guess would be one way to put it. Just [pause] seeing, um, you know—seeing, just seeing the feelings that were going through the girls at the time. I’m not going to say which one, in particular. But, just knowing that—I, you know, just knowing what they knew is—is just, is just frightening for, uh, a 13- or 14-year old girl to know.

**********************************
What did the girls know, and how quickly did they know it?? This quote makes me think that something was pre-setup for the victims. Any victims and these girls just happened to be the victims. Maybe he originally planned on one victim, but two came along. Who knows? Additionally, how do you see the feelings that were going through the girls at the time unless there was a video, of the girls?? This begs the question: what the hell was on the video that allows LE to see the feelings that were going through the girls at the time, or one girl in particular? Did Lib capture some video of Abby as they were taken by the guy? Did she capture part of the crime scene pre-mortem? How did she do it without BG seeing / seizing the phone?

So... could one of the signatures be, as a wild possibility, that BG took the phone and recorded the girls reactions to whatever he was showing them / where he led them to? Maybe a scene was already set up? Then he put the phone back in a pocket or wherever LE found it?

That would surely be above and beyond what is necessary to commit the murders. It would surely shock those who saw it. It would fit as a signature, no?

I realize we have no idea, because LE hasn't told us, but is it POSSIBLE?

Anything is possible like you said since we know so little.
I took what Riley said as him simply commenting on the moment the girls realized this guy was up to no good and they were in real danger. Though I tend to think the killer coerced them with some kind of ruse to get then “down the hill”, I can also see a scenario where the girls politely wait for him to finish crossing, but as they start to cross back themselves he pulls a weapon of some sort. If something like that was caught on the video that would be very upsetting. I can’t quite figure out where Libby’s phone would be through all that. Brave girl. Two brave girls.
Just my thoughts.

 

[TL4S]

Building on this: if BG took a video of the girls and left it for LE to find, is it possible he attempted to delete the things showing him, as captured by the kids? He may have thought if he deleted them, they were gone - may not have realized they could be brought back fairly easily.... It'd be interesting to have seen the faces of people watching the news when his photo / walk video came out!

This is only my interpretation of KR's statement about the video, but watching that guy walking towards them, and hearing what he said, really almost puts you in the girls' shoes. It's terrifying, which then makes you empathize with their feelings, like a first-person documentary.

The "knowing what they knew" comment is yet another reason I suspect the use of a weapon, because let's say he pulled a knife, the girls probably had a pretty good idea what he might do with that. Jmo

 

[TL4S]

I would not read too much into the "seeing" part. Just this morning I said to my husband that I heard there was a tornado in Georgia last night, but I didn't hear anything. I read about it.

My hunch is the sounds were so raw and disturbing that you could understand (or see) the girls' experience vividly in your mind. Maybe there are glimpses in video as well if Libby was able to do that, but my hunch (only a hunch) is that BG did not film anything himself.

But if he did....that means possible fingerprints and/or touch DNA, so that would be a good thing.

Awful to think about.

jmo

Edited to correct "would" to "would not." Different meaning!

Yes, and TL (in DTH part 10) basically said there isn't anything earthshattering on the video. I'm not sure the video or audio even continues for very long after "g...dth," because TL also says those are the only four words spoken by the killer on the audio.

Sidenote: I think if the killer knew he was being filmed on the bridge, he would have turned around and walked away without engaging the girls at all. JMO.

 

[Fika]

Yes, and TL (in DTH part 10) basically said there isn't anything earthshattering on the video. I'm not sure the video or audio even continues for very long after "g...dth," because TL also says those are the only four words spoken by the killer on the audio.

Sidenote: I think if the killer knew he was being filmed on the bridge, he would have turned around and walked away without engaging the girls at all. JMO.

I agree. Nowdays it's so easy to put anything online. Girls could have been livestreaming/talking to someone real time . I think if he knew he was filmed he would not engage with them. Moo

 

[Inthedetails]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

.. is there any information at all when setting up an online account, even anonymously, that gives geographic location, even if wide. Can you tell if the person is in a particular state or time zone or anything? Perhaps a provider that is regional?

I don't know. Might be a red herring anyway.

jmo