Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #134

[Schatz]

Perhaps "tattoos" on the poor girls' bodies...
Made with sharpies, since there was proably no time for "real tattoos"...
just a thought...

This is what I’ve been thinking, too. Though not sharpies.

 

[Yemelyan]

I believe there was a comment from LE about the girls no longer being the way he left them (that comment aimed at the perp himself) no idea what that relates to

Snipped by me.

Superintendent Carter is the one who said, at the 2019 press conference "I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not, IS NOT, what they are experiencing today." You can see the full text of his remarks here, starting at the section where he says "Directly to the killer." DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights

My view on this is that the speaker, as well as other members of the victims' families and many in the community, have a Christian - in particular evangelical Christian - worldview that informs many of their statements and comments. My interpretation of his remark is that he is expressing his belief that the girls are in heaven now and that while the killer was able to take their lives he was not able to touch their souls. I don't think he is speaking to anything evidentiary in regard to the crime other than that the killing of two children is by its very nature a brutal and evil act.

I think those who are newer to learning about the Delphi case may not realize how deeply the idea of "faith" runs in the investigators and members of the family. But once you understand this, it sheds light on some of their comments that otherwise seem out of place or like they are coded statements. Here are quotes from interview from the podcast Down the Hill, episode "Three Februaries," where Supt. Carter and MP, Libby's grandfather, together discuss the role of their faith in solving this case:


Carter: We live in a civilized society, and the vast majority of people are good. But there’s also evil. And this is an example of evil.

MP: Yes, good and the truth will always prevail. You know, that’s from my Christian beliefs, and the fact that the Lord will deliver. We certainly hope it’s in our lifetime and it's here and now, for us. If not, there’s a higher power that will be answered to, and judge. That will come in time. It doesn’t satisfy us while we’re here on earth, and we want that so badly. I can’t think like this guy. I've tried to put my mind in the same place and I don’t think I can. I’ve tried...some kind of weird psychological thing, like “Why would this guy think?” and “Why would he do something like that” and I’ve been out there and thinking the same things and hoping that something (note: a clue) would hit me.

Carter: You feel like he might be free, but he’s not. His soul is closed and dark and cold. [MP: “that's a good point”] He goes to sleep like you and I do every single night, and then he wakes up, and the last thing he thinks of is what he did, and the first thing in the morning he wishes it would go away, I know that to be true. I really do. I just don’t believe that he has a clean soul. And he’ll never, ever, be able to cross the gates of heaven.

MP: And another way I look at that is, for him, and you’re right - he may be walking amongst us, but he’s got to always be looking over his shoulder, and it’s not a good way to live.

Carter: I’m good and pissed off, frankly, for all the reasons we’ve already talked about. My soul is getting eaten from the inside out....In my entire career I’ve only seen 5 truly evil people who don’t care if you live or die. But even they have some kind of explanation about what they did and why. This one’s different because I can’t explain why.

For anyone who wants to listen to this interview, here's a link: https://www.downthehillpodcast.com/

 

[taylorss]

Yes a person whose work is not often in heights would need time to get used walking on the bridge, but MOO for someone who has logged many hundreds of hours in aerial catwalks I don't think it would be a problem.

I see I tried to reply to this but it didn’t work .... aerial catwalks - what’s that from? Something done as a welder?

 

[Rosegold68]

This case shook Carter more than those other 'evil' murder/crime cases. I agree faith may colour their language

why didnt they release cause of death?

 

[Yemelyan]

This case shook Carter more than those other 'evil' murder/crime cases. I agree faith may colour their language

why didnt they release cause of death?

Because the prosecutor in Carroll County sealed the autopsies citing an ongoing and active investigation.

Link where you can read the affidavit: IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #47

IMO there is something about the cause of death of one or both victims that needs to be protected to maintain the integrity of the investigation.

 

[Deerrun]

His hair could just naturally be curly when it's humid, straight when it's not.

Yes thats what I think, naturally wavy/curly. He looks like he usually puts gel in his hair and slicks it back.
Imo

 

[BUF]

Can someone please remind me where the girls were found - what direction, distance etc. from the bridge/river. I've lost track of that detail and I want to review it.

tia

The bodies of both girls were found shortly after noontime on Feb. 14, in a wooded area about 50 feet from Deer Creek and a half mile east of the bridge.

Delphi killings: What we know about killings of Abby and Libby

Good recap info in this Feb 2020 article.

 

[Rosegold68]

carter says 'never in my career have I stood in front of something like this'

He may be christian, have faith etc but he's seen murder before, this appears to have hit him very very hard (i've seen a murdered child when i was LE many years ago ,it gets you, course it does, but its your job, you process it) I feel for them all having to work with that scene, its horrific.

 

[Yemelyan]

carter says 'never in my career have I stood in front of something like this'

He may be christian, have faith etc but he's seen murder before, this appears to have hit him very very hard (i've seen a murdered child when i was LE many years ago ,it gets you, course it does, but its your job, you process it) I feel for them all having to work with that scene, its horrific.

This is just my belief but I also think that at that particular April press conference, where the new sketch (really it was made first) of the Delphi killer was revealed as primary, Carter was under a lot of emotion because just prior to the press conference, he was tasked with telling the families that the sketch - that they literally traveled across the country raising awareness about - was not an accurate depiction of the person they were looking for and that the investigation had shifted gears. He had just told them that the investigation was, essentially, starting over. So part of what we view as "anger" or high emotion was due to that. Part of it is his natural personality. I recall seeing him give a press conference about the Flora Fire where he exhibited similar emotive language and expressions. JMO after observing him since 2017.

Edited to add - he may be the top LE authority in the state of IN but he's not a detective and never was one. He's not an investigator on this case. He's essentially an administrator in a political role. But he has taken responsibility for making sure it is solved and I give him credit for that.

 

[Rosegold68]

thank you Yemelyan. thats very insightfully appreciate it.

i struggle a bit on this site as many of the links are not viewable here in Europe (UK)

 

[carbuff]

the 'signature' sounds particularly nasty. I wonder if he had put something in their mouths

I believe there was a comment from LE about the girls no longer being the way he left them (that comment aimed at the perp himself) no idea what that relates to

I've always thought it sounded like just a religious cliche--they're in heaven now and not still suffering the way you left them.

 

[Inthedetails]

Because the prosecutor in Carroll County sealed the autopsies citing an ongoing and active investigation.

Link where you can read the affidavit: IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #47

IMO there is something about the cause of death of one or both victims that needs to be protected to maintain the integrity of the investigation.

My hunch is why they didn't release cause of death is because then the perp would change how he killed/attacked his next victim. LE knew the perp would strike again and wanted it to match the pattern of Delphi - as a tool of finding the perp.

I'm sure there are other reasons, but that's the one I've considered.

jmo

 

[Cortne]

carter says 'never in my career have I stood in front of something like this'

He may be christian, have faith etc but he's seen murder before, this appears to have hit him very very hard (i've seen a murdered child when i was LE many years ago ,it gets you, course it does, but its your job, you process it) I feel for them all having to work with that scene, its horrific.

Hi. Thank you for your service.

 

[carbuff]

Yes thats what I think, naturally wavy/curly. He looks like he usually puts gel in his hair and slicks it back.
Imo

The middlest young Carbuff's hair is quite curly when he lets it grow out, but when he keeps it short (most of the time) it looks straight.

 

[MistyWaters]

I deleted that post as soon as I posted however I think LE also has stated it could be someone in between the 2 sketches.

Just my opinion, Carter was attempting to backtrack away from earlier comments regarding the 2nd sketch depicting the face of the killer. If it was believed both sketches were an incorrect version of the same person why wouldn’t he just say that? Why not release a sketch of somebody with blended features if LE knew the suspect’s appearance was somewhere inbetween? I sincerely believe LE hoped at each sketch would give them that one lead and they weren’t playing games at the time it was released. But I do question his approach which led people to initially believe the suspect looked exactly like the either sketch because sketches are not photographs.

Regardless, someone appearing somewhere between the two sketches would fit the description of a huge percentage of caucasian man with the same physical description as stated anywhere between the ages of 18 and 50. Yet the two sketches depict an image of two men who appear very different from one another IMO.

 

[Deerrun]

This is just my belief but I also think that at that particular April press conference, where the new sketch (really it was made first) of the Delphi killer was revealed as primary, Carter was under a lot of emotion because just prior to the press conference, he was tasked with telling the families that the sketch - that they literally traveled across the country raising awareness about - was not an accurate depiction of the person they were looking for and that the investigation had shifted gears. He had just told them that the investigation was, essentially, starting over. So part of what we view as "anger" or high emotion was due to that. Part of it is his natural personality. I recall seeing him give a press conference about the Flora Fire where he exhibited similar emotive language and expressions. JMO after observing him since 2017.

Edited to add - he may be the top LE authority in the state of IN but he's not a detective and never was one. He's not an investigator on this case. He's essentially an administrator in a political role. But he has taken responsibility for making sure it is solved and I give him credit for that.

Wish I could like this 100 times, good post. I never thought of it that way, it always struck me that he asked people to give the family some space for a couple weeks since he had just given them the info. Like I thought why did he say that? I did not put 2 and 2 together on that but it seems so obvious now. It makes sense jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

I've always thought it sounded like just a religious cliche--they're in heaven now and not still suffering the way you left them.

I agree. It was stated in a spiritual context otherwise what would the girls be “experiencing today” considering they were no longer alive.

 

[MistyWaters]

Wish I could like this 100 times, good post. I never thought of it that way, it always struck me that he asked people to give the family some space for a couple weeks since he had just given them the info. Like I thought why did he say that? I did not put 2 and 2 together on that but it seems so obvious now. It makes sense jmo

In the preceding weeks and leading right up to the April/19 press conference I also recall the family was on a fairly intensive poster blitz, providing free posters to anyone who offered to put them up at high profile locations anywhere, hoping to increase exposure of the unsolved case. Naturally the posters all contained a photo of the sketch of the older-guy.

Feeling badly for all their time and energy committed to increase public awareness that suddenly became redundant was my first thought as I listened to the PC announcing the “New Direction”.

 

[sandy_80]

correct me if I am wrong
but if they do have a partial fingerprint ..wouldn't this mean they can clear him or not in a minute

 

[carbuff]

correct me if I am wrong
but if they do have a partial fingerprint ..wouldn't this mean they can clear him or not in a minute

Not necessarily. With a partial print (or partial dentals or partial DNA for that matter) it's possible to have one part match while other parts are quite different. So if the partial matches somebody's full print, the most you can say is "maybe."