Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[StarryStarryNight]

That could be the case if in fact they are still looking for the killer.
IMO , they know who it is- they are building a rock solid case.
I don't know if this will be ready before the end of the calendar year or if it will take a year or more.
For the past 2 months- I have felt that this case turned from "unsure" to "tying up loose ends."
It's hard to wait, but something is happening that we just cannot be privvy to at this time.

MOO JMO AMOO

I hope you’re right!

 

[LeeJay55]

After ISP 1st Sgt Jerry Holeman and Sgt Kim Riley spent some time being coy about finding DNA it was finally admitted much later. However in the HLN special this last February, Carroll County Sheriff Leazenby stated in an interview they have DNA. But when they asked if it was the killer's he stated they didn't know.

So they apparently have DNA, but is it possible they don't have the killer's? Sounds like it. We don't know what weapon or method was used to kill the girls, but it is possible that if he used a gun he could have committed these murders without touch the girls. Regarding another weapon and method and he wore gloves without leaving his DNA, that's a question for someone with more experience in that area of forensics.

Rather confusing about the DNA!
I think they possibly found DNA on articles found near them.but not ON them! If they had found DNA on.them they would be able.to rule.out these men! They could have.been killed.without
Anyone touching them. I do not think they were shot but a knife was used!



Jmo!

 

[heartgoesout]

Rather confusing about the DNA!
I think they possibly found DNA on articles found near them.but not ON them! If they had found DNA on.them they would be able.to rule.out these men! They could have.been killed.without
Anyone touching them. I do not think they were shot but a knife was used!



Jmo!

Why does this show as you quoting something I posted? JNRyan posted what you replied to. That's super weird.

 

[Jax49]

Why does this show as you quoting something I posted? JNRyan posted what you replied to. That's super weird.

Weird for sure. The back arrow even links to JNR's comment.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Hi, new to the discussion. I am in the UK, but I heard about this very sad & disturbing case online, and it’s a heartbreaking one. True evil is at work here.

I really hope there is a resolution for Abby & Libby’s families sometime soon. It feels like the authorities are at one and the same time so close, & yet so far away from solving this. I think the answer must be one of the suspects already identified, and I truly hope this case is resolved in good time, for the families and because the perpetrator will, I think, do this again sooner or later.

Thanks all for the contributions and thoughts. I am not sure I believe in a deity to be honest but I offer prayers up anyhow for the killer of these two girls to be caught.

 

[155etta]

Weird for sure. The back arrow even links to JNR's comment.

I had this happen to me on another thread. Super weird. A glitch since the reboot?

 

[agreen36]

I haven't posted in a WS thread on this case yet but I've followed over the years - sometimes painstakingly, sometimes not.

At this point, I'm really feeling as though LE has dropped the ball. I'm normally someone who abides by "LE knows more than I do" and assume if I feel differently than they do, it's because I'm ignorant. But this is starting to irk me.

We, the public, have no entitlement to information about the murder whatsoever. Did I want to know everything right away? Of course I did. That's human nature. But I also fully acknowledged I had no right to the information and the privacy was both for the family and the girls as well as the investigation.

I have trouble believing that withholding this much from the public for so long is actually helping. I don't believe they have a suspect. Two years ago they backtracked on the sketch of the man. Immediately following the murder, when people's minds are the freshest, they released a sketch of an innocent man and ran with it for years. Then suddenly, and we have no idea why, they said go with this one instead. Could explaining why they changed their mind not give people context? Maybe trigger someone's memory? Is there more video/audio? If so, assuming it's not entirely horrific, could it seriously hurt to release it at this point? Someone out there knows the person who did this. If my hunch that they don't have a serious suspect is correct it's time to lean on the public.

Now maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they are 95% sure who did this and they're just building up their case. Maybe releasing any additional evidence will ruin the whole thing. I just don't think so anymore.

 

[LeeJay55]

Why does this show as you quoting something I posted? JNRyan posted what you replied to. That's super weird.

I have no.idea lol

 

[flashy09]

Is it at all.possible no.DNA was.left on the girls?
This case has gone nowhere!
Nothing to match to.anyone!

I actually think that - no good DNA. I think it was meant to be a sexual crime, but nerves and adrenaline got in the way. If they had solid DNA, JBC would be ruled in or out. Not this limbo land for 6 months. I think they highly suspect him but need to place him on the trails.

I wonder if the witnesses have done a lineup with him in it?

I haven't posted in a WS thread on this case yet but I've followed over the years - sometimes painstakingly, sometimes not.

At this point, I'm really feeling as though LE has dropped the ball. I'm normally someone who abides by "LE knows more than I do" and assume if I feel differently than they do, it's because I'm ignorant. But this is starting to irk me.

We, the public, have no entitlement to information about the murder whatsoever. Did I want to know everything right away? Of course I did. That's human nature. But I also fully acknowledged I had no right to the information and the privacy was both for the family and the girls as well as the investigation.

I have trouble believing that withholding this much from the public for so long is actually helping. I don't believe they have a suspect. Two years ago they backtracked on the sketch of the man. Immediately following the murder, when people's minds are the freshest, they released a sketch of an innocent man and ran with it for years. Then suddenly, and we have no idea why, they said go with this one instead. Could explaining why they changed their mind not give people context? Maybe trigger someone's memory? Is there more video/audio? If so, assuming it's not entirely horrific, could it seriously hurt to release it at this point? Someone out there knows the person who did this. If my hunch that they don't have a serious suspect is correct it's time to lean on the public.

Now maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they are 95% sure who did this and they're just building up their case. Maybe releasing any additional evidence will ruin the whole thing. I just don't think so anymore.

My fear is LE has a lot less than they want to let on. Not a whole lot more audio that is discernible. No useful DNA. Whatever suspects they have, they don't have enough to charge and just hope they confess or someone turns them in with the missing piece of info that places them at the scene.

Where I do agree with you is the "signatures" referred to in the DTH podcast. Even if horribly graphic, maybe they will trigger a memory of an abused pet or girlfriend.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I actually think that - no good DNA. I think it was meant to be a sexual crime, but nerves and adrenaline got in the way. If they had solid DNA, JBC would be ruled in or out. Not this limbo land for 6 months. I think they highly suspect him but need to place him on the trails.

I wonder if the witnesses have done a lineup with him in it?


My fear is LE has a lot less than they want to let on. Not a whole lot more audio that is discernible. No useful DNA. Whatever suspects they have, they don't have enough to charge and just hope they confess or someone turns them in with the missing piece of info that places them at the scene.

Where I do agree with you is the "signatures" referred to in the DTH podcast. Even if horribly graphic, maybe they will trigger a memory of an abused pet or girlfriend.

What is the DTH podcast?

 

[TheVisual]

What is the DTH podcast?

Down the Hill broadcast

 

[FromGermany1]

well women who have known him, people who have known him, someone who saw hm in Delphi, someone who was molested, someone who saw him in evansdale etc...just seeing this guy could illicit a gazillion different scenario's...mOO

bbm
That would be something!! But LE/FBI don't have to ask for it; interested (and in justice interested) witnesses are actually able to think of it by themselves. Like "I have seen a man with this look (JBC) in Evansdale in July 2012 at Meyer's Lake/near Seven Bridges,where a double murder of 2 little girls occured - should I call in a corresponding tip to LE for the Evansdale killing and also for the Delphi double murder?" (Yes, I should do so, asap!)
-.-.-
If you have any information about the circumstances surrounding the disappearance and deaths of Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins, please call the Evansdale Police tip line at 232-6682 or Cedar Valley Crime Stoppers at 855-300-8477.

A $150,000 reward, raised privately and by the FBI, is available for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the case.

Additionally, Cedar Valley Crime Stoppers has offered a $50,000 reward for anyone coming forward with information that simply leads to an arrest.
-.-.-
e-Mail: [email protected]
Tip Line: (844) 459-5786
Indiana State Police: (800) 382-7537
Carroll County Sheriff: (765) 564-2413

 

[sunshineray]

Is it at all.possible no.DNA was.left on the girls?
This case has gone nowhere!
Nothing to match to.anyone!

On one of GH's videos, which are appoved to link, a trusted insider told him the only DNA was touch DNA from the shoulder area of one of the girl's sweatshirts.

At around 1:59:30secs

 

[Always Stay Hopeful]

Two years ago they backtracked on the sketch of the man. Immediately following the murder, when people's minds are the freshest, they released a sketch of an innocent man and ran with it for years. Then suddenly, and we have no idea why, they said go with this one instead. Could explaining why they changed their mind not give people context?

What bothers me most about the sketch is the photo of who the killer is presumed to be. Does anyone else recall an interview with someone in LE who said they believed the man in the photo was the one who killed the girls? The first sketch is obviously that man, with a few minor errors to details, like his hat. The second sketch looks nothing like the man in the video. Does that mean that the man in the video, who I believe the first sketch is of, was cleared?
I've wondered if this was a tactic, as well, to let the real killer, if it was the man in the second sketch, to relax and put his guard down. Like if LE wanted him to think they weren't even looking at him.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I actually think that - no good DNA. I think it was meant to be a sexual crime, but nerves and adrenaline got in the way. If they had solid DNA, JBC would be ruled in or out. Not this limbo land for 6 months. I think they highly suspect him but need to place him on the trails.

I wonder if the witnesses have done a lineup with him in it?


My fear is LE has a lot less than they want to let on. Not a whole lot more audio that is discernible. No useful DNA. Whatever suspects they have, they don't have enough to charge and just hope they confess or someone turns them in with the missing piece of info that places them at the scene.

Where I do agree with you is the "signatures" referred to in the DTH podcast. Even if horribly graphic, maybe they will trigger a memory of an abused pet or girlfriend.

I pretty much agree with you that LE has less than what we think.
Your statement of “No useful DNA” is dead on. I think it’s all touch DNA and the vast majority is unknown and is probably just friends and family and random people at the grocery store etc.
That is useless. You cannot match it without something to match it to. You cannot do familial DNA tracing through genealogy databases because you don’t know which of multiple DNA profiles is the killer’s.
Sometime after the April 2019 press conference, after it became apparent nothing was going to happen because of it, I began thinking that the killer would only be caught if 1) he confessed, which seemed doubtful...why confess if you’re winning....or 2) he would commit another crime of some sort and be tied to Delphi. That’s one reason why I think Chadwell is a good suspect. LE needs to put him in Delphi that day and I think they’re working on it.

 

[TTF14]

I pretty much agree with you that LE has less than what we think.
Your statement of “No useful DNA” is dead on. I think it’s all touch DNA and the vast majority is unknown and is probably just friends and family and random people at the grocery store etc.
That is useless. You cannot match it without something to match it to. You cannot do familial DNA tracing through genealogy databases because you don’t know which of multiple DNA profiles is the killer’s.
Sometime after the April 2019 press conference, after it became apparent nothing was going to happen because of it, I began thinking that the killer would only be caught if 1) he confessed, which seemed doubtful...why confess if you’re winning....or 2) he would commit another crime of some sort and be tied to Delphi. That’s one reason why I think Chadwell is a good suspect. LE needs to put him in Delphi that day and I think they’re working on it.

I'm of the belief that every single DNA sample has been analyzed and already connected to someone, and there was no DNA left that is unmatched to someone. So, that means that all DNA samples are of known people who can be explained away from being family members and/or search party members. So, either the killer left NO DNA (or they didn't find it), OR the killer(s) is/are family or in the search party. And that makes the DNA unusable and this will have to be solved by other methods.

JMO, MOO

 

[minazoe]

I guarantee you that there are people out there that have had "experiences" with Chadwell. Perhaps they were frightened of him..assaulted by him..threatened by him..had an experience with him or conversation with him..
had a relationship with him..were molested by him...

they will interview anyone who wants to talk about him.

I think more will come out after he is secured in Prison with a conviction for his current charges.. mOO

 

[AC4RD]

... I think it’s all touch DNA and the vast majority is unknown and is probably just friends and family and random people at the grocery store etc.
That is useless. You cannot match it without something to match it to....

I can't pretend to understand all of the DNA issues, but from the little I DO understand, that sounds exactly correct. Any DNA recovered could be a mix of any number of people. Libby's purse? It could have touch DNA from ten people, if I understand this, and that's a lot of mixed-up data to try to make sense of. In the lab I worked in, sample DNA was very carefully kept from contamination with other DNA. I can't imagine how hard it must be for a police lab to do that with multiple unknown sources all mixed together.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Down the Hill broadcast

Thank you. IMO, the word, “guys” implies familiarity.
It makes me think he knew the girls. Naturally, “guys” would be commonly used if you were talking to boys, but in this instance it sounds relaxed and familiar, as if he’s been in a group setting previously which included the girls as well as boys.
If they were strangers to him, I’d expect a more direct instruction like simply, “go down the hill”, in a forceful tone. Just MO.

 

[Thelastleg]

What bothers me most about the sketch is the photo of who the killer is presumed to be. Does anyone else recall an interview with someone in LE who said they believed the man in the photo was the one who killed the girls? The first sketch is obviously that man, with a few minor errors to details, like his hat. The second sketch looks nothing like the man in the video. Does that mean that the man in the video, who I believe the first sketch is of, was cleared?
I've wondered if this was a tactic, as well, to let the real killer, if it was the man in the second sketch, to relax and put his guard down. Like if LE wanted him to think they weren't even looking at him.

Welcome, As far as I know LE have never directly cleared anyone. Doug Carter announced in a presser that they were changing direction in the case. Just to add to the confusion, the second sketch released was the first sketch drawn. Moo