Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #142

[TL4S]

Well, there are at least two other possibilities...one is that the photo of Abby was taken a few minutes up to many minutes previously but just selected from the camera roll to be posted at 2:07. So the time of posting is accurate but the photo was actually taken a bit earlier. That's one possibility.

The second is that the hosts of Down the Hill were correct about what they call "the U-turn theory," which was that he actually was waiting around near the south end of the bridge for victims and when he saw they crossed all the way he actually passed them once to go on the bridge, then when he went far enough to be sure no one else was crossing, he did a U-turn on the bridge and came back to them..."guys...down the hill." I think their theory is more detailed than that but that's the basis of it.

So that makes me wonder if Barbara MacDonald, host and producer of Down the Hill, may have already known information that makes this more than just a theory or that maybe she was aware that possibly other videos exist previous to the 43 second one that ends in Down the Hill.

Edited to fix grammar

DC said the crime scene starts at the trail head and that BG might have stood right there at that sign. Now, I know some of that could be dramatics, but if we go with HLN's south end U-turn scenario, where does the trail head come into play? Maybe because the girls entered the scene there? Or at some point BG scoped out the entire trail? Any thoughts?

 

[margarita25]

Reporter: Did you think the person was there that day?

Doug Carter: “I thought there was a chance that he was, or in the area/somewhere close by.”

Re: 5 year anniversary of the murders, “He’ll be watching this”

Reporter: Do you know the suspect?

DC: “I wouldn’t go that far.”

Reporter: “What is a realistic timeline?” (On his arrest)

DC: “I don’t know”

—

DC: “It’s certainly my intention that this case comes comes to some level of conclusion by the time Governor Holcomb’s time is up, and that’s very personal to me, but I also think it could be sooner than, I do believe that I’ll see it, I believe that I’ll see it. Mike Patty and Becky and Anna, I mean today could be the day.”

—

“I still have great confidence, Emily, that we’re going to be successful, that’s not just because I’m an optimistic guy, eventually I’ll able to tell the world what we know and the rest of the group will be able to tell the world what we know, unfortunately I can’t right now.”

—
Re: new sketch:

“There was a very significant shift for us, and we fully anticipated the criticism, but remember a sketch is not a photograph, and I think eventually what we’ll be able to do is put the face of the murderer up in between those two sketches and we’ll be able to merge them together and become one.”

—

On shots:

“I’m not going to talk about where we are because of that, but I can tell you we gleamed a tremendous amount of very positive information and we’re continuing to run those tips down.”

Reporter: Do we think this person is local?

DC: (pause) “Um, again, I think that there’s a strong likelihood that’s the case, but that’s as far as I’m going to go.”

Reporter: What would you say to Abby and Libby today if they were standing in front of you?

“It would be that I’m sorry, I couldn’t protect you, but I also hope you’re proud of what we tried to do for your family, and that I believe I’ll see them again.”

 

[Deerrun]

This is all just speculation on my part, but I’m wondering, since the 2nd sketch was actually made before the 1st, if the 2nd sketch is based on the Anthony Shots profile. I wonder if LE looked into the girls’ social media, saw Libby had been in contact with Anthony Shots and created the sketch based on the Anthony Shots model. Honestly, I think the sketch and the model look pretty similar. But once LE saw the video from Libby’s phone, the sketch was dropped because BG is clearly not the male model, and the sketch that was released 1st is based on the video.

Possible LE circled back to the initial sketch when they realized there was a solid SM connection and that the girls were being catfished, which would make sense why Carter indicated they were going in a different direction. Just my thoughts.

This is what I wondered also, that the second sketch released (actually first drawn) was based on the a_s profile pictures. I think the sketch resembles the profile pics but than again so do so many others ugh. This also made me wonder though that there may be a stronger connection with the a_s profile and the online angle.
Before when JBC was more in the pic I thought maybe he was camping in the woods and came upon them and saw his chance, like totally random. But now I do think there could be a strong relationship between the catfishing and the murders. In what way idk, specific targeting vs throwing out a net to see what shows up. Either way BG was prepared and ready to go at any opportunity.
UTurn scenerio possible or freakier he could have been hiding under the bridge and makes total sense that he came upon them so quickly. He would have a bird's eye view to see if anyone was around before he climbed out. If this is the case he would have had to be at the bridge before the girls. Back to random vs targeted and so on...amo Also, it was the fbi that told local law enforcement about KaK and his online profile correct? They were already onto him for the csam. I remember reading that, not sure where. imo KaK knows more and is lying. Why do all the shady reset and hiding of the 1 phone? Why make up flimsy fb alibis? Why does dad alibi him? If not directly he is indirectly involved and/or possibly covering for someone. mOo

 

[margarita25]

 

[Ekliptika]

Can anyone post a link to the HLN special?? I’m in the U.K. and can’t find it.

also if someone can sum up what new info there is I’d be grateful!

It,s on YouTube, not sure if I am allowed to copy the link in here..

 

[TL4S]

Wasn't it said that the two sketches were not of the same person? And DC has often stated that the killer will end up being a combination of both. And now, in this interview two days ago, he's saying the killer will have commonalities of both sketches.

I don't mean to start a sketch discussion again, but seriously, there has to be logic behind this because it's been repeated for almost 3 years. I have a couple conclusions, but I'm not going to share. It's just so strange...

ISP reflects on investigation on fifth anniversary of Delphi case | wthr.com

"That was a very significant shift for us and we fully anticipated the criticism, but remember, a sketch is not a photograph," said Carter. "I think eventually what we'll be able to do is, put the face of the murderer up in between those two sketches and we'll be able to merge them together and become one."

"But you think that the second sketch is more…" began Longnecker.

"We think there's commonalities between both of them with the individual," said Carter.

 

[MistyWaters]

Wasn't it said that the two sketches were not of the same person? And DC has often stated that the killer will end up being a combination of both. And now, in this interview two days ago, he's saying the killer will have commonalities of both sketches.

I don't mean to start a sketch discussion again, but seriously, there has to be logic behind this because it's been repeated for almost 3 years. I have a couple conclusions, but I'm not going to share. It's just so strange...

ISP reflects on investigation on fifth anniversary of Delphi case | wthr.com

"That was a very significant shift for us and we fully anticipated the criticism, but remember, a sketch is not a photograph," said Carter. "I think eventually what we'll be able to do is, put the face of the murderer up in between those two sketches and we'll be able to merge them together and become one."

"But you think that the second sketch is more…" began Longnecker.

"We think there's commonalities between both of them with the individual," said Carter.

It seems as if he’s not ruling out the possibility the witnesses to sketch one and two may’ve all seen the very same person, however it’s their recollect that caused the vast discrepancy between the two sketches. It can’t be easy remember exactly what a stranger looked like, days or weeks later. JMO

 

[chaz]

Libby's sister, Kelsi German: ‘Until we get to justice’ in Delphi

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I’ve had to sleep on things a little and mull over some stuff from last night. I still am.
I thought it was pretty good. I especially thought the comments from the panelists were very insightful. The KAK interview was a big nothing. The three new things they talked about, I’m still trying to sort them out.
One quick thought though
…if there is 43 seconds of video I think we can imagine that is video of BG walking toward the girls. Then wouldn’t LE have a photo/video showing the killer much closer and presumably much clearer than what we have been shown? But why wouldn’t they do that, that really makes no sense.
Or am I just missing something or thinking about it wrong.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Five. Damn. Years.

Libby and Abby, we won’t give up on seeking justice for you.

 

[Silver_produce0]

I’ve had to sleep on things a little and mull over some stuff from last night. I still am.
I thought it was pretty good. I especially thought the comments from the panelists were very insightful. The KAK interview was a big nothing. The three new things they talked about, I’m still trying to sort them out.
One quick thought though
…if there is 43 seconds of video I think we can imagine that is video of BG walking toward the girls. Then wouldn’t LE have a photo/video showing the killer much closer and presumably much clearer than what we have been shown? But why wouldn’t they do that, that really makes no sense.
Or am I just missing something or thinking about it wrong.

if they had better images of this guy and are not showing them, nobody would ever trust the police ever again.
I’m thinking that at the time that the image of him was captured, Libby was filming Abby and caught him in the background. <modsnip>

I think that would have made her uncomfortable and she may have moved to a spot where she could see him over her shoulder, like maybe she would’ve been facing Northeast. That could be why we have video of him walking, an audio of him talking, but not both at the same time.

 

[TL4S]

It seems as if he’s not ruling out the possibility the witnesses to sketch one and two may’ve all seen the very same person, however it’s their recollect that caused the vast discrepancy between the two sketches. It can’t be easy remember exactly what a stranger looked like, days or weeks later. JMO

This is what throws me off:

On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person.

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

 

[minazoe]

I thought the special was a big nothing burger....nothing makes the least sense so maybe you can explain it to me? They have an affidavit..they have a slightly different timeline.. ( 2:13 on 2/13) and down the hill is at the end of the 43 second video.

I do think 43 seconds is a long time...so I do wonder more about the sequence of events..

maybe you guys can explain..there was literally no information about all of the events etc, surrounding KAK's arrest and what parts of what he has done the police consider valuable or connected to the girls.

one thing I kind of singled out though was this..

" police told me I was the last person Libby communicated with".

they stated they didn't know if that was actually true..the reason I singled it out was it was the only thing that could have maybe rattled the killer...because it means they are super focused on the phones and who and what...and they know about a call text or chat on the profile.

the other thing , we always knew we had more audio..we didn't know about 43 seconds of video.

the total lack of LE participation tells me this was a fluff piece and they pulled a rabbit out of a hat for this one.

mOO

 

[sandy_80]

I’ve had to sleep on things a little and mull over some stuff from last night. I still am.
I thought it was pretty good. I especially thought the comments from the panelists were very insightful. The KAK interview was a big nothing. The three new things they talked about, I’m still trying to sort them out.
One quick thought though
…if there is 43 seconds of video I think we can imagine that is video of BG walking toward the girls. Then wouldn’t LE have a photo/video showing the killer much closer and presumably much clearer than what we have been shown? But why wouldn’t they do that, that really makes no sense.
Or am I just missing something or thinking about it wrong.

is it mentioned specifically that its a video ? again it doesnt make sense that they were recording bg coming to face them cause he would have seen it and snatched the phone ..what makes sense is that there is no more useful video just audio
the rest of the missing video might show abby's face when she is scared or something. <modsnip>

 

[Tiff23fr]

IMO - It seems a key take away from the timeline information revealed last night is that BG was already in the vicinity of the bridge when the Snapchat photo was posted at 2:07 (video recording began at 2:13). IMO making it extremely unlikely that a stalker saw the photo on Snapchat and then went to the bridge after seeing where they were.

So if catfishing, then BG was aware they were en route to the bridge and/or lured them there. Otherwise, it seems to lean toward random predator in wait.

JMO

 

[minazoe]

they could simply have 43. seconds of BG coming across the bridge. mOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I thought the special was a big nothing burger....nothing makes the least sense so maybe you can explain it to me? They have an affidavit..they have a slightly different timeline.. ( 2:13 on 2/13) and down the hill is at the end of the 43 second video.

I do think 43 seconds is a long time...so I do wonder more about the sequence of events..

maybe you guys can explain..there was literally no information about all of the events etc, surrounding KAK's arrest and what parts of what he has done the police consider valuable or connected to the girls.

one thing I kind of singled out though was this..

" police told me I was the last person Libby communicated with".

they stated they didn't know if that was actually true..the reason I singled it out was it was the only thing that could have maybe rattled the killer...because it means they are super focused on the phones and who and what...and they know about a call text or chat on the profile.

the other thing , we always knew we had more audio..we didn't know about 43 seconds of video.

the total lack of LE participation tells me this was a fluff piece and they pulled a rabbit out of a hat for this one.

mOO

I’m not quite sure yet what to make of it. The interview certainly was nothing.
Initially I thought the show was very good. Now that I’ve thought about it I realize the good parts to me were the discussion by the panelists.
Learning that there are 43 more seconds of video in itself is not helpful at all. Unless LE shows it to us there is nothing to glean from that.
Learning Down the Hill was said at the end of the video and the south end of the bridge, how is that helpful. I think that was pretty much where we all thought it was said anyway.
Learning the video starts at 2:13pm, interesting in how quickly the girls were trapped. Definitely indicates the killer was walking quickly and confidently across the bridge.
So the three “big” reveals weren’t all that big to me. The ball is still in LE’s court to release some more information.

 

[SMK777]

Catching up, but wanted to say one never really knows what is going on with LE and their investigation behind the scenes. And just when you think a case may never be solved, bam, an announcement.

It has been announced Kara Nichols (WS Thread link), who went missing in 2012, has been found (deceased) and a suspect in custody.

I thought her case was totally cold. It’s been quite quiet, imo. It seems LE had a suspect the whole time, had tracked her phone to the suspect’s residence, and even executed a search warrant on his property. None of this had been released to the public, that I recall.

There had also been a confession by the suspect to his family members. So, basically, somebody knew something, other than the suspect, which is possibly also the case here (or not).

Thanks for this update. And yes, it’s important to remember that a lot of LE work can be progressing behind the scenes.

 

[TL4S]

IMO - It seems a key take away from the timeline information revealed last night is that BG was already in the vicinity of the bridge when the Snapchat photo was posted at 2:07 (video recording began at 2:13). IMO making it extremely unlikely that a stalker saw the photo on Snapchat and then went to the bridge after seeing where they were.

So if catfishing, then BG was aware they were en route to the bridge and/or lured them there. Otherwise, it seems to lean toward random predator in wait.

JMO

His close proximity to them on the bridge might also point to the possibility he followed behind them on the trail for awhile, too. Jmo (If he indeed came from the north end).

 

[StarryStarryNight]

IMO - It seems a key take away from the timeline information revealed last night is that BG was already in the vicinity of the bridge when the Snapchat photo was posted at 2:07 (video recording began at 2:13). IMO making it extremely unlikely that a stalker saw the photo on Snapchat and then went to the bridge after seeing where they were.

So if catfishing, then BG was aware they were en route to the bridge and/or lured them there. Otherwise, it seems to lean toward random predator in wait.

JMO

Very good point.
I will also say that after watching KAK mumble through that interview and the brief comments concerning him by MacDonald, I am less inclined to think that the girls were catfished or stalked online or targeted in any way, and have gone back to thinking this was a random crime.