Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[fred&edna]

Self deleted/edited.

ETA: WHAT Inthedetails said above. Stated much better there.
I didn't see that before I posted!

 

[cluciano63]

Some LE might well be angry, if they know, or want to how, how and why the new image was suppressed and/or ignored all this time, jmo.

 

[MsBetsy]

Possibly killed one so quickly the other had so much fear that running was the only thing she could do. Fear tends to make me silent.

So would a weapon, I would think. He could easily have said, make a sound and you're dead, or something to that effect. Imo

 

[Rural_PC]

IIRC Footprints on the bank and a pulled down sapling.

Thanks for the reply.

From all three? If so, they have the shoe/boot print of the murderer?

 

[ocgrad]

I was up to speed early, and have tried to read a lot of the threads in the last week, but I'm sure I've missed a lot of information. What was the depth of the river at the time of the murders? Is there evidence indicating all three of them crossed the river?

The searchers on the 14th were approximately seen from their knees to their hips. However there was a partial sand bar just above there which, this is just a guess because I didn't see anyone on it, but looks like could be crossed at ankle to knee depth. Some said it may have been higher on the 13th as there had been some snow melt in the days before but I don't know if that was proven.

 

[Inthedetails]

Why the killer would return to the abduction site to leave dead bodies where people were likely still looking ? Seems it would be highly unlikely.

Even if it was only family and local concerned citizens still searching (as the official search had been called off).

There would likely have been much more easier and less possiblity of detection by taking them somewhere far away from where they were found.

I just don't see it MOO

I hear ya, but I'm re-thinking scenarios I previously dismissed.

If the girls were abducted in a car, they also could have been brought back and forced to walk to the location as carrying bodies is difficult.

Not saying that happened, but I'm putting it back on my list of possibilities, though not at the top of the list. It opens up some time for the killer and it gets the girls on the other side of the river without them having to walk across it. Has it been confirmed the girls actually entered the river, or just that they were found on the opposite side?

jmo

 

[Rural_PC]

The searchers on the 14th were approximately seen from their knees to their hips. However there was a partial sand bar just above there which, this is just a guess because I didn't see anyone on it, but looks like could be crossed at ankle to knee depth. Some said it may have been higher on the 13th as there had been some snow melt in the days before but I don't know if that was proven.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Boxer]

I don't get the impression Carter seems betrayed. I think he is reacting to the fact that the girls families feel betrayed because the killer has not been caught yet. And the police aren't any closer to catching him after two years.

MOO I don't think they angry. I hope
not. Its always been a tough case, a
strange case with weird luck for the assailant.

 

[MsBetsy]

I’ll save you the trouble.

ISP: First Delphi sketch is not POI in murders

It interesting how it’s worded “the first sketch - released two years ago - is not a person of interest at this time.”........it’s the first sketch that’s not the POI at this time, not the person in the first sketch.

I think it's the same thing. Neither the first sketch or the person depicted in the sketch is the suspect. The second sketch is of a totally different person. He is the suspect. Imo

 

[TTF14]

I can't put my hands on it right now, but proof was previously found and recorded on the forums that they did indeed cross the creek and several items of their clothing were found in Deer Creek as well. We were never told what items.

I don't remember this being recorded as fact at all.

 

[Rural_PC]

Items found in the river and evidence of crossing the river are two very different things. IMO

 

[TTF14]

This would be a lot less confusing if the first sketch wasn't the second sketch and the second sketch wasn't the first sketch. Maybe we can call them older man sketch and younger man sketch instead. Or bearded and shaven.

 

[MistyWaters]

Okay, this idea just popped into my head.

Could the girls have been abducted and taken somewhere in a vehicle on Monday afternoon, with the bodies placed later in the night? Would that that explain crossing the river and also the pings around town?

To be honest, I kind of discount the pinging info as inaccurate....but...if we're starting over, might as well start over and consider everything again.

jmo

When this theory first circulated it was assumed the video from Libby’s cellphone was downloaded from iCloud. But later it was reported Libby’s cellphone was found “near” the girls bodies. If the girls were abducted and bodies brought back, it’d be very unusual the perp would intentionally return the bodies near to where the cellphone was later found. Or return the cellphone.

The cellphone couldn’t have been pinging around town as cellphones only ping to cellphone towers which are located a few miles apart. What specifically the grandfather was referring to has never been clarified.

 

[Matic]

Thanks for the reply.

From all three? If so, they have the shoe/boot print of the murderer?

It's possible but I don't think its ever been posted about finding/photographing footprints. The creek is fairly shallow in most spots and easy to cross.

 

[Inthedetails]

Keep in mind the logic. This man is most likely a pedophile. If in fact he does/did know one of the girls or their families It is time for us to start asking why murder them?

I get a weird vibe that the killer has an aversion to girls turning into women - that early teen stage either disgusts him or something like that. This it NOT based on anything other than my own thoughts about the crime and the victims.

jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

I can't put my hands on it right now, but proof was previously found and recorded on the forums that they did indeed cross the creek and several items of their clothing were found in Deer Creek as well. We were never told what items.

Is there a link? I would be interested in reading the source for that.

 

[Inthedetails]

When this theory first circulated it was assumed the video from Libby’s cellphone was downloaded from iCloud. But later it was reported Libby’s cellphone was found “near” the girls bodies. If the girls were abducted and bodies brought back, it’d be very unusual the perp would intentionally return the bodies near to where the cellphone was later found. Or return the cellphone.

The cellphone couldn’t have been pinging around town as cellphones only ping to cellphone towers which are located a few miles apart. What specifically the grandfather was referring to has never been clarified.

Thanks for the info....still thinking it through, though.

I do think the crime happened fast and in that area, but considering other possibilities.

Crossing the river has always been a sticking point for me. How did that happen?

jmo

 

[ocgrad]

Keep in mind the logic. This man is most likely a pedophile. If in fact he does/did know one of the girls or their families It is time for us to start asking why murder them?

Its been discussed before, but is pedophile the correct term since they were young teens? Not trying to split hairs but just trying to understand.

 

[MCDRAW]

Does anyone know if either of the girls attended the DUMC youth ministry? This is the same church where the vigil was held. I would have hoped that police would have already ruled out anyone who cold have seen their snapchats, but obviously we can tell how religious the people in charge of this investigation are which makes me fear that the those who share the police religious believes may not be investigated as properly as they should have been. Moo.

What religious beliefs accept murder? Murder of two little innocent girls? I can't see law enforcement turning their heads and letting a child killer go free for any reason.

 

[Matic]

This would be a lot less confusing if the first sketch wasn't the second sketch and the second sketch wasn't the first sketch. Maybe we can call them older man sketch and younger man sketch instead. Or bearded and shaven.

Not sure why in the very beginning of all this that they didn't just release both sketches and just say "we are looking for "these" individuals".

Now 2 years later....we are supposed to ignore the 1st sketch and move on to another that they've had this entire time.