Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #96

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  • #881
lets say a witness comes forward and says,
"My dad (brother, uncle, husband) looks a lot like BG. He has been cutting his hair different since the killings, sometimes when he drinks he brings up the case, he used to work in a place that would take him by the bridge."?
(I tried to construct that in a way to conform to what they told us, "what is a good tip")
What would be the next course of action? Is that alone enough to get a warrant? If it is, what would they get the warrant for?
LE would have too look for something solid that matches something they already have, DNA, Car with matching description and plates, a finger print, murder weapon. As it is right now, LE has seemed to have led us to believe they do not have any of those. I think they must have something, otherwise when they get a tip, what would they be hoping for? That when they go question the guy he admits it? has the weapon just hanging out on his coffee table?

That would be a great tip. A real one. They would need more after that for a warrant. They could try to question the guy. See if he would agree to a DNA test or polygraph. See if he would agree to let them confirm and alibi.

Otherwise they might have to try to surreptitiously get DNA. I'm not sure what other steps they could legally take to get the probable cause for a search warrant of some kind.

Do we have any LE in the house?
 
  • #882
LE is going to do whatever best helps drive resolution, even if it means their reputation takes a hit, they really don't care how any of us feel the presser was handled as long as their purpose was achieved. I have no doubt they didn't mention the new sketch being two years old specifically because that perks everyones ears and the actual details of the new sketch itself becomes forgotten while everyone focuses their energy on why it wasn't released two years ago. They gave themselves a few days head start of getting that image out there before we all shifted gears to the "why." Flying threw the part about the vehicle was also not a mistake in my opinion, I don't think they for one second think anyone who was in the area of these murders or drove by the abandoned CPS building during those hours didn't already think long and hard about anything they saw that would be helpful in figuring out who did this and already talked to LE in the past two years. That request was more likely a veiled warning to the POI than a public request for details.

Whether we are talking about the "script" or the "passion" or the "lack of details" or the "new details" or "do they have their guy" or "they're still clueless" or whatever, the presser is achieving its purpose. The case is not forgotten, it has people talking, its reminding people its unsolved...its ensuring the POI stays nervous and doesn't get comfortable with the idea of having gotten away with murder. As far as LE is concerned, talk all you want about everything they did or didn't do right, as long as you're talking...Hollywood's rule of thumb, bad press is better than no press.

Great post.

I still remember people passionately criticizing the scott Peterson prosecutors. Two radio personalities I used to listen to out here (John and Ken), also were highly critical of the prosecution.

Perp is on death row now.

We see these criticisms in most cases that aren't solved immediately.
 
  • #883
So I have a hypothetical scenario I would like people to consider and maybe discuss. Let’s say that a large number of people have concluded they have an idea of who the suspect is based on social media, hints on forums, or by any other means. But let’s say a large number of people all suspect the same person. If that person starts to become aware of the suspicion about him, and he really is the guilty person, does that help LE by putting more pressure on him, or does it actually make their investigation more difficult as he becomes more aware of what people know about him and he starts to attempt to cover up even more?
 
  • #884
I understand your thinking, But I believe that the video was taken at a great distance and BG was probably about the size of an eraser tip on a phone screen.

very small and very far away, they had to likely zoom in and try to clean up as much as they could just to get a viable image MOO
They even said they started with a blob and had to do a lot of high tech work to clean it up to what they were able to give us.
 
  • #885
The number 13 is used by many in different ways. Take the first 13 colonies. I am love a history type channel on TV. Curse of Oak Island is one of my favorite. Last night they devoted a section to the number 13. George Washington type stuff. Friday the 13th is highly linked to the slaughter of Templar Knights on Friday the 13th, 1307. Number 13 is represented in America by our founding fathers in many ways.
Edited to add I am not sure the 13th is related to motive.

Maybe the killer saw 13 Going on 30 with Jennifer Garner and thought it was so bad... Them's jokes people.
 
  • #886
That would be a great tip. A real one. They would need more after that for a warrant. They could try to question the guy. See if he would agree to a DNA test or polygraph. See if he would agree to let them confirm and alibi.

Otherwise they might have to try to surreptitiously get DNA. I'm not sure what other steps they could legally take to get the probable cause for a search warrant of some kind.

Do we have any LE in the house?

And we yet don’t know if DNA is at the center of this case.

Was DNA found at the crime scene?
Police aren't saying.

Indiana State Police officials have not confirmed yet whether they have DNA samples that could lead to a possible suspect or suspects in the Delphi case.

However, a new state law, which took effect on Jan. 1, 2018, could help in the case. Now DNA samples can be collected from anyone accused of a felony; before that, police could only collect samples from someone already convicted of a crime.”
Delphi murders: What we still don't know two years after the slayings of 2 teenagers
 
  • #887
I don’t think it would either, if the tips are only of a cyber suspect. I recall it mentioned how certain FB groups were collaborating to collectively bombard the tip line with a possible suspect. If that’s happening, I’m certain LE has long ago noticed this tactic.

In what reality do these people live in....geesh
 
  • #888
Why would it suddenly be ok to bother the families because college is out?
 
  • #889
What if the person that is covering for BG is actually a religious leader that is not bound under the mandatory reporter act/law?

Greetings, fellow WS-ers,

Just now seeing this post of last evening, and the concept intrigued me, so I wanted to put down my 2 cents... (not worth much, but...maybe if we put together everyone's "2 cents' worth", we'll have a lot!).

Although I am not a licensed member of the clergy, I *am* a licensed educator in my home state (not Indiana, but that is where I spent a good part of my childhood and young adult years). *All* licensed educators are **required** by law (hence, the term "mandatory" in the phrase "Mandatory Reporter") to report any signs/evidence/information that we receive during the course of our workday that indicates that one of the children in our care has been/may have been subject to abuse (of any type). Thus, my teacher-ears "perked up" when I read the "mandatory reporter" phrase.

Here's what I've found thus far regarding clergy as mandatory reporters, with respect to the state of Indiana:

Indiana
Ind. Code Ann. § 31-33-5-1 In addition to any other duty to report arising under this article, an individual who has reason to believe that a child is a victim of child abuse or neglect shall make a report as required by this article.

(quoted directly from https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/clergymandated.pdf)


In other words, if an Indiana member of the clergy were to learn (whether via a confession, or during the course of a private ministerial counseling session, etc.) that an individual had abused a child, or children ("abuse" could most certainly cover violence, as well as sexual abuse), then that member of the clergy is legally obligated to report that information to LE. Period.

Side note: Could physical violence or sexual abuse preceding the taking of life qualify as "abuse", per the guidelines? Certainly does to me -- but I'm not an attorney. Let's check with Gitana or another of our WS members to verify.

By the way, as an aside, even if I (a licensed educator) am not at school, and learn about/observe child abuse (i. e., over a weekend, or during summer vacation when school is out), does that mean I'm "off the hook", and don't have an obligation to report abuse? No! Per the guidelines, part of my being a responsible member of society and as a member of the teaching profession, I take seriously this responsibility. Not to report could mean the loss of my license -- not to mention the loss of a clear conscience (which I view as even worse than losing my license -- though I would not like to lose either).



**Italics added to the original post are my own, and not in the original quotation.
 
  • #890
  • #891
An experience of mine today which reminded me of the girls:
I was walking to the library through a park and was at a intersection of paths in front of a parking lot. I decided to go in the opposite direction of a homeless man, which lead me towards a less public area. As I was walking I noticed that a pickup truck with a man + the trunk hatch down would stop until I caught up next to them, then would drive forward again, staring at me most of the time. After about a minute of this he sped into a parking spot where I would be walking by. I got that sick feeling and turned around, walking quickly in the direction of the homeless man instead. He just gave me a smile and went on with his day.
I'm not much older than Abby & Libby were, and I'm certainly not as strong/athletic as them. This was in a fairly public place where I had cell reception and the homeless man could hear me scream if anything went wrong, yet I was terrified and had that gut reaction to get away.
I can't imagine how terrified and hopeless they felt, and all they had to turn to was their own strength and recording BG.
It also showed me how wrong my sense of judgement is. We assume that the scariest looking person is the one out to get us, but it is very likely a clean cut guy respected within the community. Just thought I'd share before I head back on that path home

I appreciated your post for many reasons. Thank you for sharing.

I believe it's so important when our gut tells us something is off, to listen to it. Maybe one of our best defenses is our instincts. Starting as children, we are taught to be kind and polite, not judge a book by the cover. I believe all of this but it cannot trump the feeling that something is wrong, the situation does not feel right. In these cases, I think being polite, not wanting to come across as being judgmental goes out the window.

In this case, you turned around and went in the other direction. Maybe the guy in the truck did not have ill intentions at all or you just saved your own life.

I do believe that these poor girls knew something was not right, something was off, the situation did not feel right and bless the one who took her phone out and started recording. I made the mistake at looking at some pictures of both of these girls, many when they were younger and it just made my stomach feel sick.
 
  • #892
Jmo only...and I know peopl do not like thinking this was a crime involving sexual assault...but it could explain why LE has always been so cagey about DNA...not wanting to “go there” since they won’t address the issue of a sexual assault.
 
  • #893
They even said they started with a blob and had to do a lot of high tech work to clean it up to what they were able to give us.

That was the impression I got as well, back when the first photos were released. The photo/video makes it appear Libby was standing just a few feet in front of this guy and LE didn’t have access to the appropriate digital tools to make it clearer, but that’s not so at all.
 
  • #894
What is that? From the presser?
Yeah. Some think there's a msg to the suspect on it. Yeah. Whatever. So tired of this.
 
  • #895
Has LE asked for local people to voluntarily come forward, in order to compile a DNA database?

I’m curious if that’s within the realm of their legal authority?

MOO a local DNA drive might solve the crime.
A non police service organization could put it together. It would be a single use database to identify A&L's killer. They could agree destroy samples from people who wish it, after identification of the assailant.
 
  • #896
And we yet don’t know if DNA is at the center of this case.

Was DNA found at the crime scene?
Police aren't saying.

Indiana State Police officials have not confirmed yet whether they have DNA samples that could lead to a possible suspect or suspects in the Delphi case.

However, a new state law, which took effect on Jan. 1, 2018, could help in the case. Now DNA samples can be collected from anyone accused of a felony; before that, police could only collect samples from someone already convicted of a crime.”
Delphi murders: What we still don't know two years after the slayings of 2 teenagers
I wonder if that law was not retroactive? The deputy convicted last December who is said to resemble BG1 was arrested in Sept 2017. Perhaps since this went into effect in Jan 2018 they didn't have a right to get his DNA until his conviction. Of course they could have taken it through other means but maybe they were willing to wait to have all the Ts crossed. Then when it didn't match they changed course in the whole investigation.
 
  • #897
Yeah. Some think there's a msg to the suspect on it. Yeah. Whatever. So tired of this.

If there was it would be a lot less subtle and easily seen I can assure you that.

And if some think it’s a careless mistake all I can say is rest assured no significant info is going to be presented by a shortcut on a desktop moo
 
  • #898
Jmo only...and I know peopl do not like thinking this was a crime involving sexual assault...but it could explain why LE has always been so cagey about DNA...not wanting to “go there” since they won’t address the issue of a sexual assault.

Good DNA samples can be retrieved from under a victim’s fingernails, for example if strangulation was the cause of death and the murderer was scratched by the victim.

So I don’t know that SA would be the only reason that LE won’t go there.
 
  • #899
Jmo only...and I know peopl do not like thinking this was a crime involving sexual assault...but it could explain why LE has always been so cagey about DNA...not wanting to “go there” since they won’t address the issue of a sexual assault.

MOO they want to give out no detail at all.
COD, path the criminal took etc. Just what can help the public identify the assailant.
 
  • #900
I’ve been lurking here for a week, so this is my first post. This case breaks my heart. I see myself at 13 when I look at those 2 sweet girls. I grew up in the 70’s - a different time, although these kinds of murders still happened then. But their carefree, artistic nature reminds me of myself, and it tears my heart out that someone took their beautiful lives from them. Having said that, This is my take on things (FWIW).

The main goal of LE, as I see it, is to bring a solid case to trial - a case which a good defense attorney can’t bring forth enough reasonable doubt to get the guy off. I appreciate the time they are taking, and the fact that they are willing to publicly change directions (despite the backlash they’ve received) to get this case solved, but solved beyond reasonable doubt. I want them to dot every “i” and cross every “t”. I think they know who this guy is, but they HAVE to place him on that bridge on Feb. 13, 2017 at 2:30 ish, with those girls. The parked car, I believe, is key. I think they have DNA, most likely. I think they’re trying to put these final pieces together for a solid case. We don’t have any idea what they have! There is no way for us to know. I think we’ll be shocked at what we learn when this comes to trial. But I, for one, want to be patient and I want this guy NAILED for this crime!

As far as the sketches, obviously the second sketch is the “one”, but I also think we’ll be surprised at how this guy may look like elements of the sketch, but not exactly like it. I think the CHIN - the protruding chin - is key. I heard someone discussing this on a video and I wish I could remember which one, but they mentioned “focus on the chin”. It is an unusually long chin - prominent enough that it was memorable to the witness. I’m a portrait artist. It’s a difficult task to draw a likeness of someone even from a photo or if they’re sitting in front of you. Why? Because everyone has their own perception of how a person looks. I’ve drawn/painted some portraits and people thought they looked EXACTLY like the portrait I produced, and others thought it favored the person, but didn’t look exactly like them. My perception was, I had captured the likeness. You see? People look at things differently, from their own perspective. So to expect this sketch to look exactly like the guy is folly. What is the most prominent element? The large nose and the chin. Often when people meet someone in passing, only the most prominent features actually stand out.
That’s simply an artist’s take on it, and MOO.

As far as the video and stills, pixelation fools the eye. I’ve been sent badly pixelated photos before (I’ve done a bit of photo retouching in Photoshop in my career). This was a video with stills captured from it. The movement causes such “screen trash” and pixelation, you think you see all sorts of things which aren’t really there. It looks like, in the video, he is talking. That movement would cause even MORE pixelated screen trash around his head.

I think the stills and the video were released as a general reference for the public, i.e., does this person generally look like someone you have seen or know? If I saw my husband, for instance, in a short video, no matter how pixelated, I would still know it was him most likely. I’ve put BG’s photo in photoshop and tried to make it out. I get something different with every filter I use. Its going to be hard to get a good enough view of his face from that video. Some people think the first sketch looks more like him. Not really. Not when you look at each frame. Someone posted his head not too far back in this thread. That is the BEST enhanced still shot I’ve seen. There again - I see a LONG chin. I’m not sure about the hair, or if there’s a cap or his hood is up.

There again, this is strictly MOO, based on what limited knowledge I have. I hope they nail this piece of excrement!
 
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