Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #96

[moonlessnight]

are we pretty sure the girls were in the location where they were found by 3PM on the 13th, or could he have had them hidden until overnight when he placed them?

 

[mtnlites]

I believe this was very early on IIRC

They were leaving their options open as they should have

I think they have made various statements since then to indicate that they are looking for one sole perp

JMO

They have. The article that was previously linked to was more than 2 years old.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree. It also matters where the DNA was found. If on a cigarette it is only proof he was in the woods. If the butt was pulled from the creek he could say he was at the creek much farther upstream. Maybe it is complete and they didnt want to release a Parabon sketch because it would show just what they do have.

If they had a sketch from Parabon, I’m convinced they would have released it.

If they didn’t release a sketch, they probably would have been specific with the physical description of him.

My hope is that there is enough quality DNA to do the most important thing Parabon does, genetic genealogy.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

are we pretty sure the girls were in the location where they were found by 3PM on the 13th, or could he have had them hidden until overnight when he placed them?

We don't know. But why would BG take them, then put them back at the location where they were last known to be, where there were searchers and police looking for them?

 

[ocgrad]

So what "she" said might be rumor, what the witnesses said might be rumor, or what others have said might be rumor?
What part of this is the verified account including that which is "alleged?"

It is considered rumor here because it didn't come from MSM although some of it did but like Wells it takes some work to compile it. In some cases we can link Gray Hughes video but if he interviews the Pattys that seems verified even though GH isnt MSM. But some comes from witnesses who have discussed things on FB, even though it is the witness themselves saying it it is still considered rumor here on WS.

 

[carbuff]

We don't know. But why would BG take them, then put them back at the location where they were last known to be, where there were searchers and police looking for them?

I don't think he did, but it seems to me that the most likely reason would be that he wanted to be found in a certain place and a certain way.

 

[Amandaaa]

They have. The article that was previously linked to was more than 2 years old.

Agreed... and I understand they have only released one sketch/video - but have you seen anything stating they’ve ruled out another person being involved?

 

[buggiegirl]

I agree. It also matters where the DNA was found. If on a cigarette it is only proof he was in the woods. If the butt was pulled from the creek he could say he was at the creek much farther upstream. Maybe it is complete and they didnt want to release a Parabon sketch because it would show just what they do have.

Yup and their insistence that BG is a local or at least someone who has spent a lot of time in Delphi means that there's a good chance any DNA they have can be hand waved as having spent time at the bridge or in the area on numerous occasions. I doubt they have DNA that is conclusively from the killer (semen, skin cells or blood under girl's nails).

 

[ab01]

50 feet from Libby but unknown from Abby.

I'm not sure LE has ever stated a distance

Do you have a link to this source?

Or is this speculation from unverified reenactment videos? that LE has stated are not accurate

 

[neesaki]

I missed it I guess and didn't see it in any of the articles I read, but re: the SO, CE, who was arrested and cleared of being BG, did LE state how he was cleared ? Was it with DNA ? TIA

 

[K9Enzo]

I wonder if the girls were freaked out by this guy and one of them started recording thinking that would deter him, scare him off? Maybe the video of him on the bridge wasn't a concealed recording like some have speculated.

These poor girls had to be absolutely terrified.

My first thought when LE released the date of the press conference days ahead of time. They knew it was going to cause the public to scratch their heads as to why but I think they wanted the killer and anyone covering for him to make a misstep. I do believe they have a short list of POI and they are watching. I'm still stuck on them saying they have likely interviewed the killer or someone close to him.

 

[mtnlites]

Regarding impeding the investigation, there is a big spread in tip quality.

They hope someone who saw the suspect or the vehicle contacts them. Or if you know or see someone now that raises your suspicions and has a connection to the area, that is helpful.

Tipping “you should look at registered sex offenders” or “maybe the guy is a teacher or coach” or “maybe his leg is injured” are not good tips. The FBI is involved. They all went to Crime Solving 101 class.

It’s interesting to brainstorm and share ideas here and elsewhere, for sure. It’s fine to be compassionate and curious about the case.
They have released enough that someone who knows BG should be able to identify him.

Edit: car to vehicle

I have to keep walking away from this case because of the number of theories that are being turned in as tips. They've repeatedly stated for the public NOT to do side-by-sides and to send in quality tips, not theories or speculation. And the entitlement is strong. A tip is, "I saw my neighbor on the 14th. He looks a little bit like the sketch, but he had some scratch marks on his face and I can't forget how nervously he was acting that day and how he was holding onto a girl's bracelet that I've never seen before. He's been following the case closely ever since." Not "I don't live in Indiana or know anyone who's ever been to Delphi but I saw a FB page and the guy's profile looks just like BG." Or, "When he looked down while he was crossing the bridge it looked like a spasm. Check the doctors' offices for people who were recently diagnosed with Bell's palsy."

 

[Cindy w]

Here is an interesting news item:

Libby German’s sister forms friendship with sister of Golden State Killer victim

 

[Wells]

You may be interested to see a Reddit thread. I won't link it since it is considered rumor but it is compiled from interviews by Gray Hughes and others with the Pattys and with other witnesses, flannel shirt etc. To find the one in particular that has a timeline of witness sightings Google Reddit Cheyenne and see the one called So about the alleged text message leaks. In that thread is a link to a timeline that shows exactly what time witnesses claim to be at the bridge, ie if you believe CE her photo was taken on the south end at 2:49. Many discount that though based on her connections.

I only recently became a member of the Reddit community and I'm not a big fan but that was very informative. Thank you.

 

[TL4S]

I have to keep walking away from this case because of the number of theories that are being turned in as tips. They've repeatedly stated for the public NOT to do side-by-sides and to send in quality tips, not theories or speculation. And the entitlement is strong. A tip is, "I saw my neighbor on the 14th. He looks a little bit like the sketch, but he had some scratch marks on his face and I can't forget how nervously he was acting that day and how he was holding onto a girl's bracelet that I've never seen before. He's been following the case closely ever since." Not "I don't live in Indiana or know anyone who's ever been to Delphi but I saw a FB page and the guy's profile looks just like BG." Or, "When he looked down while he was crossing the bridge it looked like a spasm. Check the doctors' offices for people who were recently diagnosed with Bell's palsy."

Absolutely nothing about this case is funny, but the second half of your comment made me laugh!

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder if the girls were freaked out by this guy and one of them started recording thinking that would deter him, scare him off? Maybe the video of him on the bridge wasn't a concealed recording like some have speculated.

These poor girls had to be absolutely terrified.

My first thought when LE released the date of the press conference days ahead of time. They knew it was going to cause the public to scratch their heads as to why but I think they wanted the killer and anyone covering for him to make a misstep. I do believe they have a short list of POI and they are watching. I'm still stuck on them saying they have likely interviewed the killer or someone close to him.

Yeah, notifying the public of that press conference four days in advance, did a few things:

It gave law enforcement time to see if it prompted a reaction from anyone they might be looking at.

It gave the killer time to attend the press conference (mentioned yesterday on that HLN special).

It also maximized the media attention here. News coverage wasn’t just what was revealed at the presser, but allowed build up to it as well (over a number of days). They wanted every news outlet to be there.

 

[ocgrad]

I'm not sure LE has ever stated a distance

Do you have a link to this source?

Or is this speculation from unverified reenactment videos? that LE has stated are not accurate

Oh I had not thought of that element of the video reenactment being inaccurate. I guess we do not know. Perhaps LE has said and I don't have a link for it. I was just going off what GH has determined from going to the bridge and matching up the location.

 

[mtnlites]

I'm not sure its possible for us to make that determination

The video is very blurry hence likely zoomed to a point to cause the extreme pixilation

The suspect is likely much farther away from the victims than it appears in the clip

JMO

Didn't they say that the image was something like 70 feet away from Libby? I don't think they've said about the video, but it looks cropped and zoomed in to me.

Also, it's kind of hard to judge WHY he's walking in a certain pattern on the bridge unless you've actually walked on it yourself. It's in remarkably good condition considering its age and the almost nonexistent upkeep on it. However, there are rough parts here and there. A loose board here, a hole there, what looks like a rotten part here...I don't think I've ever walked in a completely straight line on it. I try to stick to the middle but there are points where it makes more sense to veer one way or the other.

 

[MistyWaters]

are we pretty sure the girls were in the location where they were found by 3PM on the 13th, or could he have had them hidden until overnight when he placed them?

LE have said during various press conference they believe they know what happened. Forensic examiners are able to tell the difference between a site where death occurred and bodies relocated after death, through examination of various factors that naturally occur after death in a human body. If LE had reason to believe there was a second crime scene I think they’d release additional information as it could lead to additional sightings. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

DELPHI — The Carroll County Sheriff's office is pleading with the public to stop making side-by-side images of people with the Delphi suspect's sketch and instead to call in or email those tips to detectives.

"Please STOP posting side by side pictures of people you think did this," the sheriff's office posted on Facebook. "You are ruining innocent people's lives."

Sheriff: STOP comparing people online with Delphi sketch