Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #96

[mtnlites]

I agree.

Time and time against see searches taking place and they find nothing and then they go back over the same ground days or weeks later and find bodies.

I think if they were looking for bodies on the 13th they may have found them but at that point they must have just thought the girls were lost or one of them injured.

Light was possibly fading as well.

I do think they are there the whole time I did mention earlier whether they were moved and then taken back there but that makes no sense at all when you think about it.

It really doesn't make logical sense. LE has said that they think the crime was committed quickly. If he'd moved them back to where they were recovered then he'd have had to park a fair distance away and made 4 separate trips since there's no way he could've carried 2 dead bodies at the same time. He'd have risked being seen by LE, family, and other searchers who were in the area.It was dark on the night of the 13th. Very dark. There were no street lamps. Those with flashlights still had difficulty seeing. If the bodies had leaves or sticks even partly obscuring them, they could've been missed.

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, in that park, if someone was late coming out, you wouldn't think murder first, you'd think somebody slipped on a steep part of the path and twisted an ankle, or hurt themselves on the bridge, or stepped off the trail to get a better picture and then couldn't find their way back in the dark.

 

[Joolz1975]

Yes. By the time the search started it would have been dusk. And I'm sure you start at the "center" of the disappearance and fan out. Their bodies were half a mile away.

I'd imagine the search that night involved lots of shouting their names and hoping for one of them to shout back but probably no in-depth looking at undergrowth or anything else.

I think the most they expected to be wrong was that one to the girls had slipped and hurt themselves and that the phone had run out of battery.

No way would they have expected that in that short space of time two teenage girls would be murdered.

I can just imagine the optimism at that point. Yes worried they were missing and likely to be out in the cold and dark all night but not really thinking any real harm had come to them, certainly nothing sinister.

Must have been horrific the next day.

 

[TL4S]

Some of these people are trolls, some of them actually have good intentions, but both groups are causing harm.

It’s strange that people who intend to cause chaos, and those who simply want to help, are united in what they are achieving:

Damage.

Not only Bad Guys (BG) like to feel important, and in power.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I agree it is unlikely that anyone could remember who was parked in a certain place 2 years ago. Which is why it was strange to me that LE waited this long to even talk about that if they knew this information before now.

I checked back to an early article about what they were asking the public about and it was only about cars being parked at the trailhead.

"“Also, if you were parked at High Bridge Trail Head on February 13, 2017 between 1:00 p.m. and 5:00 p.m. we would like to talk to you,” police said."

Abigail Williams & Liberty German: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

BG would remember...........

 

[CSIDreamer]

It really doesn't make logical sense. LE has said that they think the crime was committed quickly. If he'd moved them back to where they were recovered then he'd have had to park a fair distance away and made 4 separate trips since there's no way he could've carried 2 dead bodies at the same time. He'd have risked being seen by LE, family, and other searchers who were in the area.It was dark on the night of the 13th. Very dark. There were no street lamps. Those with flashlights still had difficulty seeing. If the bodies had leaves or sticks even partly obscuring them, they could've been missed.

Especially when the searcher that found them actually had to "look up" (a hill or something) to see what he was seeing.

Plus, he (perp) would be carrying a body, along with his flashlight as well to find his way.

 

[ocgrad]

and if he did all that before 3pm, why didn't they find them then? I don't think they were there then.

I agree.

 

[wary]

And we’re still not supposed to discuss it. Tricia posted really sternly on that issue, the other day.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I'd imagine the search that night involved lots of shouting their names and hoping for one of them to shout back but probably no in-depth looking at undergrowth or anything else.

I think the most they expected to be wrong was that one to the girls had slipped and hurt themselves and that the phone had run out of battery.

No way would they have expected that in that short space of time two teenage girls would be murdered.

I can just imagine the optimism at that point. Yes worried they were missing and likely to be out in the cold and dark all night but not really thinking any real harm had come to them, certainly nothing sinister.

Must have been horrific the next day.

I totally agree. My daughter and her friends were taught if you lose sight of a trail (whether you're on it or 3 feet from it) and it's too dark to see, you freeze right then and there. It gets dark surprisingly fast in wooded areas if you've never been in one. The searchers probably expected the same with Libby and Abby.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Thanks guys for the information on painted rocks scenario.
I was just trying to understand how this particular predator found/ensnared the victims. Seems the more he hung around the park the more likely he could be identified. Also would possibly close his alibi window. I do feel he went that day and intended to carry out his plan. Just seems like the perfect storm of coincidences.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

This case is still as big of a mystery to me as it was a week after it happened. Apparently, I need to watch more Scooby Doo episodes.

 

[CSIDreamer]

This case is still as big of a mystery to me as it was a week after it happened. Apparently, I need to watch more Scooby Doo episodes.

Obviously

 

[Peppery]

and if he did all that before 3pm, why didn't they find them then? I don't think they were there then.

The search didn’t begin at 3, it was closer to 5:30 and the sun was rapidly setting. Moo

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Obviously

 

[ocgrad]

I know they've said the murders happened minutes after the video, but that could be 90 minutes or 7. I just think it's too quick for him to murder them and do whatever they are referencing in the PC, and get out before Derrick shows up. I personally think he was hiding, probably with the girls' (bodies most likely). That's why his car was still there. He hadn't come out yet.

I think the same thing.

 

[sumzero]

This case is still as big of a mystery to me as it was a week after it happened. Apparently, I need to watch more Scooby Doo episodes.

I'll bet you're not the only one. I was watching a video clip of Doug Carter last night. It was obviously recorded not long after the murders. So much of it reminded me of the last news conference. "We're just getting started." "If you're watching this, your time is gonna come." "Good and evil." Lots of emotion.

 

[sumzero]

My assumption was if LE said it happened rapidly, they have pieced together that part of the timeline from timestamps on video and audio on the cellphone.

Exactly. One or both girls could've begun to resist, or flee, or scream, and so the killer subdued and killed them before getting around to doing what he wanted to do.

 

[ocgrad]

My assumption was if LE said it happened rapidly, they have pieced together that part of the timeline from timestamps on video and audio on the cellphone.

They also have the approximate time of death frkm the autopsies.

 

[MistyWaters]

That's a good point. From the last photo of Abby on the bridge at 2:07, to the unanswered phone call at 3:11, BG had to catch up with them on the opposite end of the bridge, walk them to the spot across the creek, murder them, and start walking out. I don't know how long it takes to cross that bridge, but I seriously think he likely had less than a half hour with them. And I don't think he was still with them when the searches started. I think he was long gone. MOO

And as Libby’s dad would’ve walked to the bridge from where he parked at 3:14, we don’t know what time he sighted people near the bridge but it would’ve been later than that. He probably waited in the parking lot for awhile as well. So hypothetically only, if the murders occurred at 2:45pm and DG didn’t see these people until 3:45pm the murderer would’ve been long before any of them were nearby.

 

[Steffannieg]

Regarding the newest PC, I want to share an observation and am curious to hear your thoughts - If you watch Sheriff Leazenby who is standing behind Carter, he is pretty stoic the entire time - except when Superintendent Carter says "...or works here" when describing the killer. The Sheriff has a visible reaction. It of course may be nothing, but if you watch his face through the entire speech, he seems to swallow once when Carter is asking people to look at the mannerisms of BG, and then at the "...or works here" part, he very noticeably reacts. I find it very interesting.