Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[TTF14]

For anyone new to this case, I highly recommend reading over the ‘scanner thread’ on here. A lot of hard work went into it, and the early details rarely get mentioned anymore.

And since new people will have no clue how to get to the scanner thread, here ya go (you have to be a registered member): https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-scanner-thread.333467/

 

[rosesfromangels]

...waiting...

Not much longer Carbuff. As the youth culture says, "wait for it....."

 

[Deleted member 230385]

Makes you wonder how many suspects for major crimes are out there that have not been arrested. LE may have POIs all day long..but if they don't have evidence to make a case then they walk among us. Its frustrating.

Yes, there is a case like this in my neighborhood where the killer lives free. He decided to purchase a home that overlooks the former crime scene a couple of years later, in fact. Very frustrating, but all of the evidence is circumstantial, apparently. My only hope is that as his kids grow up, one of them will remember something and have the guts to come forward. What a crazy world.

 

[TTF14]

Yes, there is a case like this in my neighborhood where the killer lives free. He decided to purchase a home that overlooks the former crime scene a couple of years later, in fact. Very frustrating, but all of the evidence is circumstantial, apparently. My only hope is that as his kids grow up, one of them will remember something and have the guts to come forward. What a crazy world.

Oh my. That is awful .

 

[pepper 34]

My 13 year old shoves her phone down the back of her trousers usually if she has no pockets for her phone.

Don't know if it's generational but, in my earlier days... anything that needed to be hidden was hidden in the bra.

 

[x_files]

Agree. It's even more upsetting when they are noticed but untreated.

I've met people who I know are dangerous have been arrested and acquitted but how many times can someone be falsely accused, had the wrong guy?
and yet they still walk free. Way too many.

 

[moonlessnight]

typically, those who are antisocial/psychopathic are so inherently narcissistic they would never consider killing themselves. that's why murder-suicides, mass shooters, and DV killers don't just off themselves - they have to kill the others first. A suicide is a very different psychology - more internalizing. This suspect may have had previous suicidal tendencies as a younger child but it appears homicide may be his newly developed mode of coping with his hostile urges, and could in fact be a defense to suicidal urges. But he would most likely have strong narcissistic traits as well.

I think there is some psych theory that the homicidal and suicidal urges can be similar, but I think this particular murder seems aggressive and more targeted IMO (and I have NO formal psych training).

 

[Charlot123]

Unlike Nuclear DNA which identifies one person uniquely, there have been cases where mtDNA or Y-chromosomeDNA have proven helpful. Certainly can narrow down the field of viable suspects.

Although, from the article (below), it is stated "Due to multiple relatives having the same Y-chromosome profile, unique identifications are not possible from Y-chromosome analysis", the odds towards a particular suspect increase drastically when there are few relatives living in that area.



"Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is a form of DNA that is transmitted from mother to child in a complete set; therefore, anyone in the maternal lineage will have the same mtDNA profile."

Y-chromosome DNA testing is a form of nuclear DNA testing that is specific to the male chromosome, also known as the Y-chromosome. This type of testing can be useful for sexual assaults, missing persons, and intelligence cases. The Y-chromosome is transmitted from father to son as a complete set; therefore, anyone in the paternal lineage will have the same Y-chromosome profile. Due to multiple relatives having the same Y-chromosome profile, unique identifications are not possible from Y-chromosome analysis.

DNA Casework — FBI

Mitochondrial DNA, as I have read, stays in the bones, so if it is a rare group, or has private mutations, it is helpful when nothing but the bones stay.

Y- really, it depends on a clade. R1a1 - good luck searching, given that it is the most prevalent in Europe ...but a rare one can significantly narrow the search and be useful.

Also, the ethnicity can often be figured out from a group.

 

[Charlot123]

typically, those who are antisocial/psychopathic are so inherently narcissistic they would never consider killing themselves. that's why murder-suicides, mass shooters, and DV killers don't just off themselves - they have to kill the others first. A suicide is a very different psychology - more internalizing. This suspect may have had previous suicidal tendencies as a younger child but it appears homicide may be his newly developed mode of coping with his hostile urges, and could in fact be a defense to suicidal urges. But he would most likely have strong narcissistic traits as well.

Mass shooters may kill themselves, they are often suicidal...but perhaps, feel that if they just kill themselves, no one will show up at the funerals. So they, in a way, secure the place in Wikipedia by doing what they do first.

 

[moonlessnight]

I agree. Those covering for him have concocted a meaningful purpose for BG's "challenges" and they probably have a religious overtone. Grandiosity. They are not thinking of the girls and their families, they are thinking only of themselves and their son. As if redemption for murder is somehow a righteous path.

I think the phrase “ the way you left them” was used to convey a brutal attack-and I think this was disclosed for one reason.
If someone close to BG is covering with knowledge of his involvement. Maybe he confessed, but distorted the facts to make it seem more accidental...I realize I’m reaching here...
If this suspect did confess to someone maybe he painted himself in the most flattering light.
I feel with young victims in particular there seems to be a pattern of the attacker blaming the victim in some way.
I think this phrase was bold. To leave no doubt that the suspect unleashed uninhibited evil.
I can only hope those words reached the intended individual(s).

 

[Charlot123]

don't forget that girls did not recognize him, so if he was from Delphi, he was obscure... from school, sports, etc., they probably know a fair amount of people

Perhaps they did not recognize him in the outfit? Or, they did, sort of, but kept silent?

 

[x_files]

Mass shooters may kill themselves, they are often suicidal...but perhaps, feel that if they just kill themselves, no one will show up at the funerals. So they, in a way, secure the place in Wikipedia by doing what they do first.

Why I think Wikipedia needs to stop giving infamy to mass shooters. Notice victims often do not. Depressing.

 

[mtnlites]

Perhaps they did not recognize him in the outfit? Or, they did, sort of, but kept silent?

There are lots of people in my small town who I recognize by sight, but I don't know their names.

 

[moonlessnight]

I don't think he was recognizable in his gear. I mean, clearly he has not been recognized.

Perhaps they did not recognize him in the outfit? Or, they did, sort of, but kept silent?

 

[Charlot123]

I agree. Those covering for him have concocted a meaningful purpose for BG's "challenges" and they probably have a religious overtone. Grandiosity. They are not thinking of the girls and their families, they are thinking only of themselves and their son. As if redemption for murder is somehow a righteous path.

Vanity. Hubris.

In Christianity, things are viewed differently. But in Ancient Greek mythology, hubris - the sin of thinking you are higher than gods - was the worst, and punished the heaviest. Tantalus, Sisyphus, Niobe, and many others were punished so badly specifically because they thought they were better than gods.

A human can not decide on God’s forgiveness. Likewise. a human can’t say to another human “you are going to hell”, “you will be in heaven”. It is not up to a human to know. Assuming that one knows someone’s predestination is hubris and vanity. Not faith.

Especially in reformist churches, there is no one standing between a human and God, this is what the whole Reformation movement was about. In Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches the priest has somewhat a higher role, but still, a mere human, prone to errors.

 

[elmomom]

Brit here trying to catch on last two days....


Guys, Y'all the Young Dudes?

Mott the Hoople!!

 

[Skigh]

typically, those who are antisocial/psychopathic are so inherently narcissistic they would never consider killing themselves. that's why murder-suicides, mass shooters, and DV killers don't just off themselves - they have to kill the others first. A suicide is a very different psychology - more internalizing. This suspect may have had previous suicidal tendencies as a younger child but it appears homicide may be his newly developed mode of coping with his hostile urges, and could in fact be a defense to suicidal urges. But he would most likely have strong narcissistic traits as well.

I do agree.
I think he is more than likely to be a narcissist.

 

[kc1023]

So the local (and possibly speculative) aspect of the case has me thinking. Hopefully one of the investigators or members of the public will have an epiphany about the more local aspect of BG and his prior, or current, familiarity with the goings on in Delphi.

I just wonder. Did BG have some way of knowing the girls would be alone at the bridge? I have always thought he was random and stumbled across them, but maybe he wasn’t random.

bbm

Snapchat? Just because we only know of a couple of the snaps Libby took that day, doesn't mean there weren't some earlier snaps she posted that someone could have seen and headed over to the trail themselves? ..jmo..

 

[raja]

I am sure it has been discussed but could BG just have walked out of the park thru the main entrance that DG started looking for the girls at and then walked back along the Hoosier Heartland towards his vehicle parked at the abandoned CPS building and been seen by someone that assumed he was hitchhiking before he made it to the vehicle? Is this why hitchhiking was first mentioned. Did he have a backpack? It seems like a simple idea.

 

[MDATCA]

I have the same reaction - why would they need to confirm the shoe color to know they found the girls??

jmo

It kind of struck me as off. Like if the shoes didnt match would they be like oh ok these aren't the people we are looking for so let's just ignore these bodies then. It is just the wording just isn't right to me.