IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #32

[Jax49]

Way back how far? I just joined this blog yesterday and have no idea where to look for it...any help?

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I can't help direct you to previous measurements but there might be another way. We know Abby was 5'4" and there is a clear pic of her. Can you work from that info?

 

[Burnt Toast]

ITA
Also, do we know what time they finished yesterday? Surely they stopped any outside investigation before dark.

i can't find anywhere what time they wrapped it up?

 

[dyannaON]

Had my fiancé listen to both voices because I love to do this to him. He doesn't think they sound the same at all.
Please note though he couldn't make out what either one was saying. Hahaha.


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[chocolope]

I was studying the photos a bit, because I had a hard time seeing the supposed "brown hoodie." It also looked like 2 different people to me. I blew up the best photos I could find 4x, and inverted the colors in 2 different ways using software. I've highlighted the areas that stand out to me.

- In the left photo, notice the round curvature on the left side of BG's head (our left). This appears to be the back of his head, not the top of the hoodie. You can see a dark spot which appears to be either a shadow or the trim of a hood. It disappears behind his face, suggesting the hood is down/off.
- JMO but there appears to be the outline of a pistol in his right (our left) pocket. Ever since someone pointed this out to me, I could not unsee it.
- He appears to be "strolling" based on the footstep. To me, it doesn't look like a fast-paced, directed walk. Looks more like he's wandering.

Now, let's take a look at the right photo.

- There appears to be a distinct outline of a hood. The arrow points to the "crease" we often see with hoodies that are pulled all the way over when the hood hangs over your forehead. Also notice the same dark spot - in this photo, the hood appears to be pulled over.
- Note that BG appears to be looking downward
- Appears to be a quicker pace. In the original photo it appears to be a longer step as well, suggesting it's a quicker pace as well.
- Note the outline of what appears to be a gun is much less apparent

Why the difference? A couple of other observations:

- LE suggested what appears to be a brown hoodie
- On billboards, it appears LE circulated the left photo, which suggests they believe it's most clear (because they believe hoodie is down too?)
- LE never shared the exact timestamp of these photos, nor the time elapsed between them
- LE suggested the possibility of 2+ killers very early on, presence of a "twist", etc.
- In the photos, many people see what appears to be two different people


Have we considered the possibility that the original photo was BG "scouting", perhaps waiting for someone. He's strolling, hoodie down to not look suspicious, etc.

After the girls show up, he leaves back across the N. end of the bridge, perhaps out of sight from the girls. He puts his hoodie up, perhaps removes the pistol from his pocket, disables the safety, holds it in his right hand, and puts his hand back in his pocket. He then begins walking quickly toward the girls across the bridge. Maybe it's just me, but even his facial expression in the second photo looks much more stern and "intentful."

Thoughts?

 

[EllieBee]

I never said the children knew him.

I said that if the family members knew him reciprocally, you'd think they could ID him from the BG stills. But so far, nothing.

I went on to say it was a terribly blurry pic and that in a crowd of REAL teenagers I often have trouble picking out my own child.

I do not think RL is the BG, but I do not base that on the fact that nobody has come forward to ID him. Libby was a hero, for sure by capturing his image. Sadly. It may not be the smoking gun needed.

The results of this SW may be, however.

The property owner may know the grandparents or families of the murdered children, but that does not mean that the murdered children knew the suspect on the bridge.

 

[Steleheart]

Difficult to say because the creek is different depths in different places. Where the marker is, that takes the reading IIRC it was 3.4 ft on the 13th Feb. Helicopter aerial footage taken on the 14th (after the bodies were found) showed the creek along that location to vary, in places waist deep, in places shin deep.

https://www.facebook.com/WRTV6/videos/10154523478509092/ (Searchers in the creek from the 19 minute mark)

Thank you for that. I remembered it but could not find my bookmark. I remember that the line of searchers were holding on to each other for safety. The north bank side was deeper toward the SE end of the bridge.

 

[Momma2cam]

I'm sorry, I just can't figure out how to make this sound less snarky. :iamashamed:

If the property owner looked like this guy instead of someone's grandpa, how different do you think these discussions would be?

Ted Bundy was attractive and soft spoken too.

I totally agree with you. I'm really struggling to follow along. I went back to read through the Stislicki case in taking a break from here and see so many similarities except even less evidence (no body) and the tone in sleuthing and essentially assuming guilt of the one person who had their home searched was/is rampant (myself included).

I can't figure out what warrants such a drastically different group think response here other than to look at the differences between the perps. They differ in race and in age by about 50 years. RL is incarcerated and has a history of other charges, bodies found on his property yet the sympathy and dismissive responses to the warrant is interesting. SG (In Danielle's case) has no known criminal history, has not been arrested, and had his home searched and items including vehicles removed - over 2 months ago. Yet the overall consensus is still that he has the answers and is guilty.

Odd.

Hoping for clarity from LE soon.

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[Jabarn]

Wouldn't FINDING TWO DEAD BODIES be probable cause???

It sure would, but the quote I posted indicated a totality of evidence, so there must be more than that.

I know. It is frustrating. It will be even more frustrating as the days go by and there are no new developments.

I truly think (IMO) this case is going to get even more bizarre.

It seems for the past two Fridays there have been new details that revitalize these threads and public interest.

In the end, Justice for Libby and Abby, and let no stone be left unturned in the investigation.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

I don't think his age has anything to do with it.. he does not look like the BG imo

Agreed. I know dozens of 70-some year olds who are pretty able bodied.

There was a time when people in their 60s were old and people >70 were on death's door. I just don't think that's the case anymore. I think with medical advances and with the fitness crazes that swept a lot of them up in the 70s and 80s, they're often more healthy, active, and fit.

Heck, an 80-some year old at my gym lifts competitively, and I know two distance runners who are also in their 80s. My gym in the mornings is jammed with oldies who often outpace and outlast me, and I'm no slacker.

So it doesn't seem odd to me to think of someone in their 70s doing fairly physical things. That said, I'm not making the case against RL. Just saying age alone doesn't preclude people from doing pretty physical stuff.

____________
The above is just my opinion.

 

[lonetraveler]

Interesting...this is the first time I've looked at this photo and feel like he's wearing glasses, especially looking at his right eye. Either sun glasses or the type of glasses that turn darker if in the sun. MOO.

Very interesting .
Why is it every time we look at this photo we see something nee[/QUOTE]
BBM: :sigh::sigh: Yes, it does seem to be the gift that just keeps on giving.

 

[EllieBee]

You would think.

And not a month post-discovery. JMO.

I think LE has something concrete to go on re: the SW. But I admit I am scratching my head over why the property was not searched immediately after the girls were found. I cannot fathom how much physical evidence was potentially lost by waiting a solid MONTH.

But I will wait and see what LE has.....

Wouldn't FINDING TWO DEAD BODIES be probable cause???

 

[Elementarywatsonsir]

These are still assumptions and we have access to a couple of seconds of audio, unless you have access to more somehow? I'm saying we can't possibly know if they knew him or not because there's not enough information to say that for sure. That's not even my opinion, that's just a fact. I don't believe it has been confirmed that he knew the girls, but correct me (with links) if I'm wrong?

If they called him by name, he would have been arrested first thing. If they indicated any recognition of him, they wouldn't have waited this long to bring him in.


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[Hazelnutty]

Thinking out loud: Has anyone tracked other inmates in Carroll County Jail over past few weeks besides RL? Run those names and see if anyone else has been transferred? If they are picking up people on unrelated warrants, I'd guess they would end up with space issues quick. I'm not sure it tells us much, unless RL has been the only transfer...it would really put a fine point on the idea that they are worried about his safety for some reason in that case, but I guess that's about it.

Great idea! It would certainly narrow things down a bit .

 

[DexterMorgan]

I never said the children knew him.

I said that if the family members knew him reciprocally, you'd think they could ID him from the BG stills. But so far, nothing.

I went on to say it was a terribly blurry pic and that in a crowd of REAL teenagers I often have trouble picking out my own child.

I do not think RL is the BG, but I do not base that on the fact that nobody has come forward to ID him. Libby was a hero, for sure by capturing his image. Sadly. It may not be the smoking gun needed.

The results of this SW may be, however.

Agree. I think BG did work on the property before. And went back to rummage or squat there when convenient. But maybe he passed the girls on the way back to town.

But how did he know they were alone?

Where could he see them from to know that they were not with others near by?

 

[GGE]

I was studying the photos a bit, because I had a hard time seeing the supposed "brown hoodie." It also looked like 2 different people to me. I blew up the best photos I could find 4x, and inverted the colors in 2 different ways using software. I've highlighted the areas that stand out to me.

- In the left photo, notice the round curvature on the left side of BG's head (our left). This appears to be the back of his head, not the top of the hoodie. You can see a dark spot which appears to be either a shadow or the trim of a hood. It disappears behind his face, suggesting the hood is down/off.
- JMO but there appears to be the outline of a pistol in his right (our left) pocket. Ever since someone pointed this out to me, I could not unsee it.
- He appears to be "strolling" based on the footstep. To me, it doesn't look like a fast-paced, directed walk. Looks more like he's wandering.

Now, let's take a look at the right photo.

- There appears to be a distinct outline of a hood. The arrow points to the "crease" we often see with hoodies that are pulled all the way over when the hood hangs over your forehead. Also notice the same dark spot - in this photo, the hood appears to be pulled over.
- Note that BG appears to be looking downward
- Appears to be a quicker pace. In the original photo it appears to be a longer step as well, suggesting it's a quicker pace as well.
- Note the outline of what appears to be a gun is much less apparent

Why the difference? A couple of other observations:

- LE suggested what appears to be a brown hoodie
- On billboards, it appears LE circulated the *left* photo, which suggests they believe it's most clear (because they believe hoodie is down too?)
- LE shared the exact timestamp of these photos, nor the time elapsed between them
- LE suggested the possibility of 2+ killers very early on, presence of a "twist", etc.
- In the photos, many people see what appears to be two different people


Have we considered the possibility that the original photo was BG "scouting", perhaps waiting for someone. He's strolling, hoodie down to not look suspicious, etc.

After the girls show up, he leaves back across the N. end of the bridge, perhaps out of sight from the girls. He puts his hoodie up, perhaps removes the pistol from his pocket, disables the safety, holds it in his right hand, and puts his hand back in his pocket. He then begins walking quickly toward the girls across the bridge. Maybe it's just me, but even his facial expression in the second photo looks much more stern and "intentful."

Thoughts?

When I see this inversion I see two things:

1. IMO he has hoodie up in both pics, but may ALSO have a baseball cap over or under it IMO.

2. IMO the anomoly on the left side of the right photo that some say is a tree in the background and some say is perhaps Abbys coat in the foreground -- it's interesting how it lights up bright orangish like the clothing in the photo does, and doesn't stay the same colors as the trees in the background IMO - I've seen other, oranger inversion pics and it always turns the colors of BG's clothes, not of the trees.


(FWIW I showed this image to my buddy as well and asked if that anomoly is in the background or foreground - he had a lot to say about the pic in general (he agrees what Nin and others have said about it having obvious photoshopping done to it before being released, since there are a lot of artifacts from a cloning tool or similar) but in particular he said that in his professional non-LE opinion that artifact is in the foreground and is not part of a tree. We all have opinions but I value his as a photoshop pro - which I realize we have several of here, and there's no one consensus. But thought I'd mention it. *shrug* )

 

[Inthedetails]

After the girls show up, he leaves back across the N. end of the bridge, perhaps out of sight from the girls. He puts his hoodie up, perhaps removes the pistol from his pocket, disables the safety, holds it in his right hand, and puts his hand back in his pocket. He then begins walking quickly toward the girls across the bridge. Maybe it's just me, but even his facial expression in the second photo looks much more stern and "intentful."

Thoughts?

Snipped by me.

Libby took the photos of BG, so he couldn't have changed his look before and after the girls show up, ykwim?

jmo

 

[apples12]

This is fascinating. I work with someone who does this very thing (but obviously on a harmless scale relative to these circumstances). I've always had a difficult time articulating the nature of their behavior and how they seem to enjoy living in that space after they've created havoc in the background only to play martyr/victim in the foreground. Thank you for taking the time to write that articulate post.



I hope it was OK that I snipped it.

Thank you, SomeoneElse333. I've been thinking about it a lot. Psychologically speaking, what could account for someone killing and then leaving the bodies on his own property. Aside from what I wrote above, I was reminded of the phenomenon of self-induced suffering. If someone feels remorse and guilt after a transgression, the usual urge is to make amends/reparation and achieve atonement. But what happens if this is impossible? If is impossible to fix what you have done, either one of two things happens. If you are a sociopath, it doesn't matter. If you are not a sociopath, you feel severe guilt and you unconsciously set yourself up for punishment. You might start drinking and get re-arrested...you might make a bad decision to leave the bodies in an incriminating place.

 

[chocolope]

Snipped by me.

Libby took the photos of BG, so he couldn't have changed his look before and after the girls show up, ykwim?

Should have clarified. The idea is that he's waiting, or shows up wearing the hoodie (but hood off), strolling, etc. Libby snaps the first photo for whatever reason. Some time later (presumably minutes), he leaves, and comes back across the bridge toward them again, this time with the hood on, face downward, quick walk with the intent of proceeding to confront the girls.

 

[Mcumings]

I can't help direct you to previous measurements but there might be another way. We know Abby was 5'4" and there is a clear pic of her. Can you work from that info?

I could for a baseline. I will drive there tomorrow to get measurements. Thank you for helping

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[Jabarn]

Very interesting .
Why is it every time we look at this photo we see something nee[/QUOTE]
BBM: :sigh::sigh: Yes, it does seem to be the gift that just keeps on giving.

I know! How in the heck has this creep not been identified, especially with the $200,000+ reward. He must be dressed differently in the pic than his typical attire or is such a loner, no one recognizes him.

It makes me wonder- this is going to be out there- he "borrowed" some clothes from a certain someone. Anyway, there have been less reasonable ideas postulated. Keep thinking!