IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

[fred&edna]

Haha no. I'm a comedian from Cincinnati. I've done a few bits on her. Not Nancy grace. Just a funny Dad


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Comedian from Cincy... hmmmm.... Were you at Southgate House July 2016 ??

 

[Hazelnutty]

I've rehashed my theories once again. Just a few new thoughts:

1. Was the girls' outing at bridge/trail planned or spur- of- the- moment?
2. Why didn't Abby have a phone with her, or did she?
3. Were the male people we can't sleuth at work that day, or work at a job that they could leave whenever they chose to?( can't respond, I know)
4. Why did they have a ride to and from bridge/trail, if they lived so close? Was there problems with a person who lived between their starting location & the trail , causing them to not want to walk by there?

I believe that "stranger danger" would have been so deeply in-grained in these girls that they would have been more alert, wary, suspicious of stranger on the bridge/trail and would have went out of their way to avoid them and would not remain in a strangers immediate vicinity, they would have removed themselves to a different location quickly before an approach was made.

I believe the girls would be curious, but less inclined to be fearful of someone they recognized or knew. I believe they would have played it cool & hoped the person would hurry up and walk beyond them , so that they could continue with their picture taking and fun. I believe they would have been more inclined to listen to & obey a known person , out of respect and fear of what may happen later, if they don't do what they're told. ( grounding, loss of priveliges ).

If this had been an absolute stranger , I believe that bells and whistles would have gone off for these girls and things would have ended much differently, possibly even just a scary story about a creepy weirdo they encountered at the bridge would have been told at school the next day.

It's intensely frustrating to not know who killed them & why are they not up on charges at this moment. I Do understand the evidence gathering and the need for proof and so on. It's just the thought of this heartless, soulless individual out living and breathing while the families are suffering and grieving that adds to frustrations.

Re: Ballpark plans. I think this is so awesome. The family and the people who support the family are assuring that the girl's names& memory live above and beyond what happened to them. It gives the family hope & knowledge that life does and will go on. I hope that the presser regarding the girls ballpark irked the murderer so badly that he is furious and can't stand his own presence.

All of the above is MOO & nothing more is implied.

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[Gisjoe]

Comedian from Cincy... hmmmm.... Were you at Southgate House July 2016 ??

Haha not me!


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[St. Anthony2017]

And I pray they do look at information and photos sent in to them. They promised everyone that no tip was too small....please let that be the case. They need to look carefully at what they have received. I think the answer is in their possession now.

I just re-sent my tip because of the comments about the right hand. My POI has a scar on his right hand and walks with a limp. If it is him he has previous related charges but probably didn't want to leave witnesses this time because he served prison time several years ago. He is the reason I joined this sight. I emailed the Sheriffs Office and asked if he has been checked out. I hope to get at least a yes or no answer. As soon as I first saw the BG picture in the news I knew I had to send in my information. If I hear back I will let you know.

 

[iscaremyself]

I've rehashed my theories once again. Just a few new thoughts:

1. Was the girls' outing at bridge/trail planned or spur- of- the- moment?
2. Why didn't Abby have a phone with her, or did she?
3. Were the male people we can't sleuth at work that day, or work at a job that they could leave whenever they chose to?( can't respond, I know)
4. Why did they have a ride to and from bridge/trail, if they lived so close? Was there problems with a person who lived between their starting location & the trail , causing them to not want to walk by there?

I believe that "stranger danger" would have been so deeply in-grained in these girls that they would have been more alert, wary, suspicious of stranger on the bridge/trail and would have went out of their way to avoid them and would not remain in a strangers immediate vicinity, they would have removed themselves to a different location quickly before an approach was made.

I believe the girls would be curious, but less inclined to be fearful of someone they recognized or knew. I believe they would have played it cool & hoped the person would hurry up and walk beyond them , so that they could continue with their picture taking and fun. I believe they would have been more inclined to listen to & obey a known person , out of respect and fear of what may happen later, if they don't do what they're told. ( grounding, loss of priveliges ).

If this had been an absolute stranger , I believe that bells and whistles would have gone off for these girls and things would have ended much differently, possibly even just a scary story about a creepy weirdo they encountered at the bridge would have been told at school the next day.

It's intensely frustrating to not know who killed them & why are they not up on charges at this moment. I Do understand the evidence gathering and the need for proof and so on. It's just the thought of this heartless, soulless individual out living and breathing while the families are suffering and grieving that adds to frustrations.

Re: Ballpark plans. I think this is so awesome. The family and the people who support the family are assuring that the girl's names& memory live above and beyond what happened to them. It gives the family hope & knowledge that life does and will go on. I hope that the presser regarding the girls ballpark irked the murderer so badly that he is furious and can't stand his own presence.

All of the above is MOO & nothing more is implied.

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#three

 

[WebSight]

I've rehashed my theories once again. Just a few new thoughts:

1. Was the girls' outing at bridge/trail planned or spur- of- the- moment?
2. Why didn't Abby have a phone with her, or did she?
3. Were the male people we can't sleuth at work that day, or work at a job that they could leave whenever they chose to?( can't respond, I know)
4. Why did they have a ride to and from bridge/trail, if they lived so close? Was there problems with a person who lived between their starting location & the trail , causing them to not want to walk by there?

I believe that "stranger danger" would have been so deeply in-grained in these girls that they would have been more alert, wary, suspicious of stranger on the bridge/trail and would have went out of their way to avoid them and would not remain in a strangers immediate vicinity, they would have removed themselves to a different location quickly before an approach was made.

I believe the girls would be curious, but less inclined to be fearful of someone they recognized or knew. I believe they would have played it cool & hoped the person would hurry up and walk beyond them , so that they could continue with their picture taking and fun. I believe they would have been more inclined to listen to & obey a known person , out of respect and fear of what may happen later, if they don't do what they're told. ( grounding, loss of priveliges ).

If this had been an absolute stranger , I believe that bells and whistles would have gone off for these girls and things would have ended much differently, possibly even just a scary story about a creepy weirdo they encountered at the bridge would have been told at school the next day.

It's intensely frustrating to not know who killed them & why are they not up on charges at this moment. I Do understand the evidence gathering and the need for proof and so on. It's just the thought of this heartless, soulless individual out living and breathing while the families are suffering and grieving that adds to frustrations.

Re: Ballpark plans. I think this is so awesome. The family and the people who support the family are assuring that the girl's names& memory live above and beyond what happened to them. It gives the family hope & knowledge that life does and will go on. I hope that the presser regarding the girls ballpark irked the murderer so badly that he is furious and can't stand his own presence.

All of the above is MOO & nothing more is implied.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

Great post Hazelnutty.

So you think that the girls must have known BG, at least peripherally? Point #4 is also interesting. Abby was staying at Libby's the night before and I don't know where the Pattys live, assuming it's close?

 

[DeDee]

I'ma going to go join the code speak forum..so I can learn how to decipher all this clue dropping stuff...:desert:

Not in this case but on another one of WS murder investigations, someone on FB posted:

Those people over at Websleuths have the crime nearly solved but I'm too stupid to understand what they are saying.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Great post Hazelnutty.

So you think that the girls must have known BG, at least peripherally? Point #4 is also interesting. Abby was staying at Libby's the night before and I don't know where the Pattys live, assuming it's close?

A few miles away to the Northeast of the bridge.

 

[Gruffin]

I was asking the question if LE released that pic on the 13th at 7pm cuz according to folkes here it would have been held in the phone for 7 hours.That means the time line would be completely false because the pic would have had to be taken at noon which doesn't fall into the sister dropping them off at 1.I'm not savvy to thing's SM related but thats how it read to me.

It's obvious from the shadows that the picture was taken around 2:07pm. From Google Maps the bridge runs at an azimuth of about 123 degrees (you could use a protractor). So the cross ties run at about 90 degrees plus that, or 213 degrees. Using simple trigonometry and a guess of where her back was relative to her feet, her shadow on the trestle bed seems to make an angle of about ten degrees with the cross ties, which would mean an azimuth of the sun of 213 degrees - 10 degrees = 203 degrees. Using an online astronomical program from the US Naval Observatory, that would be at 2:19 pm. At 2:07 pm the azimuth of the sun would actually have been a little less than 200 degrees, well within the uncertainty of my observations (presumably the angle of the shadow is more like 13 degrees).

At about 1:01 pm, the sun would be due south, and so before 1pm the shadow would make an angle of more than 33 degrees with the cross ties, which seems quite implausible from the photo.

 

[expatCanada]

What Gruf said. lmao. Have no clue, but I'm :happydance:

It's obvious from the shadows that the picture was taken around 2:07pm. From Google Maps the bridge runs at an azimuth of about 123 degrees (you could use a protractor). So the cross ties run at about 90 degrees plus that, or 213 degrees. Using simple trigonometry and a guess of where her back was relative to her feet, her shadow on the trestle bed seems to make an angle of about ten degrees with the cross ties, which would mean an azimuth of the sun of 213 degrees - 10 degrees = 203 degrees. Using an online astronomical program from the US Naval Observatory, that would be at 2:19 pm. At 2:07 pm the azimuth of the sun would actually have been a little less than 200 degrees, well within the uncertainty of my observations (presumably the angle of the shadow is more like 13 degrees).

At about 1:01 pm, the sun would be due south, and so before 1pm the shadow would make an angle of more than 33 degrees with the cross ties, which seems quite implausible from the photo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Great post Hazelnutty.

So you think that the girls must have known BG, at least peripherally? Point #4 is also interesting. Abby was staying at Libby's the night before and I don't know where the Pattys live, assuming it's close?

Point #4. I'm not so sure that either of the girls lived quite that close that it was within easy walking distance to the bridge. Even if it was walkable, it would've been down rural roads, something most parents/grandparents might forbid.


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[Jethro4WS]

Point #4. I'm not so sure that either of the girls lived quite that close that it was within easy walking distance to the bridge. Even if it was walkable, it would've been down rural roads, something most parents/grandparents might forbid.


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For Abby it was on the same road that goes under the south end of the bridge, less than a mile.

 

[expatCanada]

Remember folks ... we can't sleuth family members. JMO

 

[WebSight]

Point #4. I'm not so sure that either of the girls lived quite that close that it was within easy walking distance to the bridge. Even if it was walkable, it would've been down rural roads, something most parents/grandparents might forbid.


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Yeah, Misty, I hear you. I know where Abby lived and that would be a no-go for this mama

 

[expatCanada]

Both girls were dropped off at the bridge by a "family" member (in a car/truck) and "family" was to pick them up (in a car/truck). NO ONE walked there, per MSM and LE.
JMO

 

[Gisjoe]

I've rehashed my theories once again. Just a few new thoughts:

1. Was the girls' outing at bridge/trail planned or spur- of- the- moment?
2. Why didn't Abby have a phone with her, or did she?
3. Were the male people we can't sleuth at work that day, or work at a job that they could leave whenever they chose to?( can't respond, I know)
4. Why did they have a ride to and from bridge/trail, if they lived so close? Was there problems with a person who lived between their starting location & the trail , causing them to not want to walk by there?

I believe that "stranger danger" would have been so deeply in-grained in these girls that they would have been more alert, wary, suspicious of stranger on the bridge/trail and would have went out of their way to avoid them and would not remain in a strangers immediate vicinity, they would have removed themselves to a different location quickly before an approach was made.

I believe the girls would be curious, but less inclined to be fearful of someone they recognized or knew. I believe they would have played it cool & hoped the person would hurry up and walk beyond them , so that they could continue with their picture taking and fun. I believe they would have been more inclined to listen to & obey a known person , out of respect and fear of what may happen later, if they don't do what they're told. ( grounding, loss of priveliges ).

If this had been an absolute stranger , I believe that bells and whistles would have gone off for these girls and things would have ended much differently, possibly even just a scary story about a creepy weirdo they encountered at the bridge would have been told at school the next day.

It's intensely frustrating to not know who killed them & why are they not up on charges at this moment. I Do understand the evidence gathering and the need for proof and so on. It's just the thought of this heartless, soulless individual out living and breathing while the families are suffering and grieving that adds to frustrations.

Re: Ballpark plans. I think this is so awesome. The family and the people who support the family are assuring that the girl's names& memory live above and beyond what happened to them. It gives the family hope & knowledge that life does and will go on. I hope that the presser regarding the girls ballpark irked the murderer so badly that he is furious and can't stand his own presence.

All of the above is MOO & nothing more is implied.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

As more time passes I wonder how much time will need to pass before they release more info. I understand why they are keeping most of the information close to the vest. I truly hope they know who this person is. And they are just trying to nail down that piece of the puzzle. But what if they don't? At what point do they release more information? There is a killer of two teenage girls on the loose. It's only a matter of time before it happens again.

Just how long does a ticket scalper hold on to that high priced seat? The game has already started. Sure it's a great seat, but what good is a seat if you can't find the person to fill it?
That information is useless if you never find the person responsible.
I understand why LE is keeping some info close to the vest. I've supported that since the beginning. But lately I've haven't been so confident they will figure out who BG is. Or find him. We are 2 and a half months out with no idea of who BG is, or where he could be. Again. LE May very well know who is BG is. Which I hope to God is the case. I've just had a really bad feeling about it in the last couple of weeks. As a Browns fan, ive always been an optimistic person (I kind of have to be). This is the year! Today is the day! I keep telling myself these things every single day. I'll never give up on the Browns. And we will never give up on Libby and Abby. Every day is a new day with new ideas and new clues. I just really wish they would release BGs gait. Or something else that might bring in new tips. Just had to get that off my chest cause it's been driving me crazy!


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[Deleted member 196796]

It's obvious from the shadows that the picture was taken around 2:07pm. From Google Maps the bridge runs at an azimuth of about 123 degrees (you could use a protractor). So the cross ties run at about 90 degrees plus that, or 213 degrees. Using simple trigonometry and a guess of where her back was relative to her feet, her shadow on the trestle bed seems to make an angle of about ten degrees with the cross ties, which would mean an azimuth of the sun of 213 degrees - 10 degrees = 203 degrees. Using an online astronomical program from the US Naval Observatory, that would be at 2:19 pm. At 2:07 pm the azimuth of the sun would actually have been a little less than 200 degrees, well within the uncertainty of my observations (presumably the angle of the shadow is more like 13 degrees).

At about 1:01 pm, the sun would be due south, and so before 1pm the shadow would make an angle of more than 33 degrees with the cross ties, which seems quite implausible from the photo.

Good work Gruffin, I came up around the same timeline. Gotta love a digital sundial. Thank you!

 

[WebSight]

Both girls were dropped off at the bridge by a "family" member (in a car/truck) and "family" was to pick them up (in a car/truck). NO ONE walked there, per MSM and LE.
JMO

Absolutely, agreed. We were just commenting on Hazelnutty's question # 4 from her post, wondering why the girls were dropped off rather than walking, even though they lived close by. Hazelnutty wondered if the families had concerns.

We probably should have included that quote to avoid any mix-ups. The girls being dropped off is a fact, not questioning that whatsoever.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm still stuck thinking its highly likely that LE knows this suspect and probably had contact with him early on. Now, I'm not saying LE knows that they know the suspect or anything. Its just my opinion that the simpilest explanation would be some local guy that was waiting for the right opportunity or has a connection to the victims. He assulted them quickly and took them to RL property and killed them and left. Nothing more nothing less. Times of death, RL, human trafficking, drug crimes, all rabbit holes, imo. The way I see it is there is one reason and one reason only that BG went after these girls and I for one think that reason is fairly obvious. I think LE has a pretty good handle on how everything played out, I think where they are having problems, is finding solid direct evidence to tie in to a particular perp. Possible that they have a few really good suspects and just need that one piece to point to the exact one. Now the problem is, sometimes it take years and years to figure out that one little piece....all JMO

.
BBM
100% Agree.

Might possibly even be waiting to get enough info to get a warrant for the suspect's dna, if dna was left at the site. I'd guess that if he's never been incarcerated, or arrested, then his dna is most likely not in the database, so he'd not be concerned about leaving dna. If they get a warrant for someone's dna, and it's not a match, then they're in a bit of situation. The public is let down. The assailant(s) know they're sniffing in the wrong direction.

Re; TOD. I don't know another way to word this, but, is it possible that one of the girls played dead, until he left, and lived until the following day? There would be a difference in the condition of the bodies, based on how long the other girl lived, if she tried moving to check on her friend after he left, etc...

 

[expatCanada]

Maybe ... just maybe (speculation alert) the driver and girls went into town for lunch first before the drop off to the bridge. I'm always about eating!

ETA: more speculation: MSM says: girls dropped off at 1:00 pm, but Gray Hughes (with his 'sources') insists 1:45. Lunch, delayed, etc???? Just guessing and NO facts.

We were just commenting on Hazelnutty's question # 4 from her post, wondering why the girls were dropped off rather than walking. Hazelnutty wondered if the families had concerns.

We probably should have included that quote to avoid any mix-ups. The girls being dropped off is a fact, not questioning that whatsoever.