IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #75

[Shiressleuth]

This is the first I've heard of a computer generating a sketch using DNA. Very interesting.

Do you (or anybody here) know if the Faith Hedgepeth case was solved? And, if it was solved, did the perp actually look like the sketch?

No not solved yet. I have just been looking at it.

 

[foxbluff]

No not solved yet. I have just been looking at it.

Ty, Shire. I'm intrigued with this computer/dna method of generating a sketch...the more tools avail to LE, the better!

 

[gregjrichards]

It sure would be an awesome Christmas gift to the families, if this monster was locked up by then. I'm praying that happens.

This is a Christmas miracle that is badly needed for sure.

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...el-Hill-7-Sept-2012-2&p=13722950#post13722950

This is a link to the DNA phenotype sketch in the Faith Hedgepeth case.

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...float-honors-murdered-delphi-teens-libby-abby

View attachment 127249


The woman at the road sign isn't by chance lovely KN? Slightly reddish dyed hair, long. Glasses. Very strong legs.

I think the hair looks too long and she is in Co I think. We are talking about DNA phenotyping ATM and your avatar is from that I believe. Could you please provide a link to the details of that case featured in your profile picture? Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think the hair looks too long and she is in Co I think. We are talking about DNA phenotyping ATM and your avatar is from that I believe. Could you please provide a link to the details of that case featured in your profile picture? Thanks.

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-n...-will-lead-to-break-in-1971-child-murder-case
also:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...anada-Ljubica-Topic-6-Windsor-Ont-14-May-1971

 

[foxbluff]

Appears that this new computer/DNA/generated sketch just did its job in TX.

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/dna-sketch-leads-to-suspect-confession-in-texas-slaying

DNA sketch leads to suspect confession in Texas slaying ... December 3, 2017

DALLAS — After her oldest daughter was killed in May 2016, Michelle McDaniel and the rest of her family isolated themselves in their small Texas town out of fear that the unknown killer could be standing in line with them at the grocery store or passing them on the street.
Then early last month, Brown County sheriff’s investigators sent McDaniel a sketch of the man they suspected in her daughter’s death, despite having no witnesses. The sketch was created using DNA found at the crime scene; a private lab used the sample to predict the shape of the killer’s face, his skin tone, eye colour and hair colour.

Within a week, the sheriff’s office had a suspect in custody. <snipped>

 

[kizzykat]

ETA: apologies for repetitive info below, I didn't see that Shiressleuth was already on it.

I just read about the case on wiki because I'd never heard of it. It's not solved yet. There are some similarities to Delphi, including sealed records and a reporter who decided to look closer & was suspicious of why the sealed records among other things. It's an interesting read but sad, this young woman had a bright future ahead of her.
Case background & activity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_Hedgepeth_homicide
The sketch generated can be seen here: http://www.wral.com/police-release-...y-suspect-in-faith-hedgepeth-murder/16049750/

This is the first I've heard of a computer generating a sketch using DNA. Very interesting.

Do you (or anybody here) know if the Faith Hedgepeth case was solved? And, if it was solved, did the perp actually look like the sketch?

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Brownwood-15-May-2016&p=13791898#post13791898

This is a link to the texas thread (mentioned by foxbluff ^^^^) here on WS which shows how close the likeness was between the sketch and the suspect. (Really short thread)

Encouraging news. They had to get permission for the funding to use the private lab but it worked. Perhaps Delphi can try it?

 

[kizzykat]

Quote from foxbluff's article. Seems there are some ACLU qualms about using this relatively new technique.

For some ethicists and lawyers, however, releasing a sketch of a suspect without any witnesses seems like a dangerous proposition. Jay Stanley, a senior policy analyst at the American Civil Liberties Union, said that from what scientists have said and written, not enough is known about the link between genes and facial features to rely on the technology to produce a suspect.

“You can lose weight, gain weight, change gender, grow a beard, have plastic surgery,” Stanley said. “It risks ensnaring innocent people in webs of suspicious investigations. It risks playing on existing societal racial prejudices. It risks diverting investigations down wild goose chases. If this technology were used to set up dragnets say to bring in every albino person in an area as a suspect because the DNA seemed to show someone had that trait, that’s where we would object.”

Appears that this new computer/DNA/generated sketch just did its job in TX.

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/dna-sketch-leads-to-suspect-confession-in-texas-slaying

DNA sketch leads to suspect confession in Texas slaying ... December 3, 2017

DALLAS — After her oldest daughter was killed in May 2016, Michelle McDaniel and the rest of her family isolated themselves in their small Texas town out of fear that the unknown killer could be standing in line with them at the grocery store or passing them on the street.
Then early last month, Brown County sheriff’s investigators sent McDaniel a sketch of the man they suspected in her daughter’s death, despite having no witnesses. The sketch was created using DNA found at the crime scene; a private lab used the sample to predict the shape of the killer’s face, his skin tone, eye colour and hair colour.

Within a week, the sheriff’s office had a suspect in custody. <snipped>

 

[Shiressleuth]

Quote from foxbluff's article. Seems there are some ACLU qualms about using this relatively new technique.

I think it is likely to be more accurate than a witness' memory. That guy's worries are unfounded because if they have the DNA to do the phenotype in the first place then, when they identify the suspect, DNA would rule them out anyway if they were innocent. There are always detractors aren't there?

What about the civil liberties of the murder victims, their families, and those living in fear of repeat crimes?
They count too.

 

[raja]

I think they do have DNA from the crime scene but not directly tied to the girls. If someone is a match to that DNA they have to prove when and how it got there.

 

[minazoe]

interesting op ed piece on Indiana and the grand jury requirement.

https://www.theindianalawyer.com/ar...-case-grand-juries-in-indiana-shrouded-by-law

MOO

 

[Steleheart]

interesting op ed piece on Indiana and the grand jury requirement.

https://www.theindianalawyer.com/ar...-case-grand-juries-in-indiana-shrouded-by-law

MOO

IMO it brings us back to the importance of Evidence. Presented to a GJ, evidence in a criminal case is as important as whatever clues compel LE officers to continue perusing a case.

For all intents and purposes the prosecution only gets one shot. And heaven help them if an accused insists on a speedy trial. Then what - they have to be ready.

From the link;

Because a grand jury indictment isn’t necessary to proceed with criminal charges, a prosecutor will typically use a grand jury as an investigative tool. The grand jury can be used to issue subpoenas for evidence as well as to compel testimony from individuals who may otherwise be uncooperative. In addition, a grand jury can also be used to enable a prosecutor to elicit the help of six members of the community to determine whether criminal charges are appropriate in more complicated or more high-profile cases.

JMO

 

[Steleheart]

Quote from foxbluff's article. Seems there are some ACLU qualms about using this relatively new technique.

It reminds me of the case of Vanessa Marcotte, the Google employee who disappeared while running in MA. Eventually a DNA profile was generated through Parabon in VA. No sketch was ever generated and released to the public. It was possibly released to LE but we do not know that. An alert officer took note of a vehicle with a driver who matched the parameters of the profile and the case was solved.

No Sketch - at least not publicly.

Worcester District Attorney Joseph Early said the DNA profile shows the person of interest is an athletic, light-skinned male and about 30 years old. He would have had scratches on his body following Vanessa Marcotte's Aug. 7 murder.

The person of interest is also Hispanic and had a shaved head based on witness descriptions, according to Early.

The DNA in question was entered into national criminal databases; however, investigators didn't get a hit and Early didn't have a name. State police have also ruled out some people as suspects.

The description was generated by Parabon NanoLabs, based in Virginia. Since 2014, police around the country have been utilizing their technology, known as Snapshot, to create composite sketches with small samples of DNA.

"It's not for identification. It's for prioritizing," said Dr. Ellen McRae Greytak, director of the program.

Their descriptions, which can vary on the quality of the DNA sample, potentially allow police to zero in on one suspect, as opposed to many.

https://www.necn.com/news/new-engla...er-Murder-Investigation-Update-414604683.html
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-27-murdered-Princeton-7-Aug-2016-8-*Arrest*

Bottom line is that it's not profiling as much as a general description.
Much as if it were an eye witness IMO.

We Do No Know if there is a Partabon profile do we.

JMO

 

[Teche]

OMG! Amazing!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Brownwood-15-May-2016&p=13791898#post13791898

This is a link to the texas thread (mentioned by foxbluff ^^^^) here on WS which shows how close the likeness was between the sketch and the suspect. (Really short thread)

Encouraging news. They had to get permission for the funding to use the private lab but it worked. Perhaps Delphi can try it?

 

[mtnlites]

LE says that the sketch was "an artist's composite of the information collected by all the agencies involved in the double-murder investigation, including the FBI." My guess is that it was taken from details given by the witnesses, attributes gleaned from the video stills, and perhaps even additional information that has not been released to us.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/police-...-killings-of-2-girls-from-delphi-ind/2225876/

"It came through because of information that we received from persons that were in the area..."
(snipped by me)
..."the sketch artist had started a month ago to piece together the descriptions, frequently consulting the witness or witnesses to refine the drawing."
(snipped by me)
"It takes quite awhile to get a sketch put together," Sgt. Riley said. "We let the person look at the picture and come back a few days later and ask, 'Do you remember anything else?'"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/us/delphi-murders-indiana-sketch.html

 

[Shiressleuth]

It reminds me of the case of Vanessa Marcotte, the Google employee who disappeared while running in MA. Eventually a DNA profile was generated through Parabon in VA. No sketch was ever generated and released to the public. It was possibly released to LE but we do not know that. An alert officer took note of a vehicle with a driver who matched the parameters of the profile and the case was solved.

No Sketch - at least not publicly.




https://www.necn.com/news/new-engla...er-Murder-Investigation-Update-414604683.html
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-27-murdered-Princeton-7-Aug-2016-8-*Arrest*

Bottom line is that it's not profiling as much as a general description.
Much as if it were an eye witness IMO.

We Do No Know if there is a Partabon profile do we.

JMO

No we don't but it would be a good idea to do one if they haven't already done one on the sly. Are they expensive? I'm wondering if they have one and aged it based on the witness description of the age for example? JMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ystery-woman-in-toronto-snowbird-murders.html

This article states the cost in 2016 was $3,600 and takes 45 days. Miniscule amounts can be used (taken from objects) and is primarily used for ruling out.

Seems it could be useful in ruling out the hundreds of POI's in this case IMO

 

[Steleheart]

No we don't but it would be a good idea to do one if they haven't already done one on the sly. Are they expensive? I'm wondering if they have one and aged it based on the witness description of the age for example? JMO.

I don't buy into the theory that the sketch was done from a photo but witness(es) and a DNA "snapshot" I can buy into. I seem to recall that the profile in the Vanessa Marcotte case also gave an age range as well as athletic build and short hair. Amazing stuff to me.

JMO