IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #82

[Deleted member 102539]

I've been looking at crimes that happened in the days after the murders, especially suspicious deaths. Is it possible that the only person who could positively ID BG is now dead as well? Were there any "accidental" deaths or murders a few days after the crime? It's another avenue to explore.

There was a "gun accident" in the region AFAIK when BG's voice was made public. A next dead teenager, 18yo. At that time I thought it might be perhaps an important connection and I posted here. Now I can't find the one and only newspaper article; it's gone somehow. So we have no necessary basis to discuss - no MSN. As mostly always, I want to say.

 

[carbuff]

My husband has one that he got from Wal-Mart. The fact is, we don't know anything about that jacket. It could have come from a chain store, from a secondhand store, been borrowed, received as a Christmas present, etc. It was simply an idea. I've seen far more outrageous ones.

Indeed. And there's no telling which tiny loose end will be the one that pulls everything together.

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[Shiressleuth]

I've been looking at crimes that happened in the days after the murders, especially suspicious deaths. Is it possible that the only person who could positively ID BG is now dead as well? Were there any "accidental" deaths or murders a few days after the crime? It's another avenue to explore.

http://www.hippensteelfuneralservice.com/m/obituaries/Katharin-Kohl-Richardson/Memories

Yes there was an accident cleaning a gun but at the time we were not allowed to discuss it. It is probably on the thread around the time of the pic release. I presume we still cannot discuss it unless something has changed that I am unaware of.

Eta. Tips were submitted at the time by a couple of posters, myself included. Obituary is still available on line but it won't load for me. I will try and post link though. Ok it loaded now.

Mods please delete if link to obit is not allowed.

AJMO

 

[kizzykat]

It is spotty. There are areas where the reception is great and areas where it doesn't exist-and sometimes the areas are only a few feet apart. I've had it work on one end of the bridge but not the other. (It's a really long bridge.)

So you crossed the bridge? Was it scary?

Yes, so many questions. Was is scary? How many times would you estimate you've crossed it? If it was scary and you crossed more than one time did it get any easier each time, as in your confidence built up a little? If it wasn't too scary for you, were you able to walk on it at a relatively normal pace and gait? Are you able to see the car path that runs parallel to the private drive and goes under the bridge? From above if someone had parked a car and/or were standing on the car path directly beneath the bridge would you be able to see them? (I realize if leaves are on trees that would make it very difficult to see the path on either side of the bridge from above, but I'm also wondering if it's still visible through the slats of the bridge.) TIA

 

[mtnlites]

There was a "gun accident" in the region AFAIK when BG's voice was made public. A next dead teenager, 18yo. At that time I thought it might be perhaps an important connection and I posted here. Now I can't find the one and only newspaper article; it's gone somehow. So we have no necessary basis to discuss - no MSN. As mostly always, I want to say.

Yes, I know about that one and I belong to a separate group for that death. But, since it's not approved, it's not anything we can discuss here. It wasn't classified as a "crime" either.

 

[mtnlites]

Yes, so many questions. Was is scary? How many times would you estimate you've crossed it? If it was scary and you crossed more than one time did it get any easier each time, as in your confidence built up a little? If it wasn't too scary for you, were you able to walk on it at a relatively normal pace and gait? Are you able to see the car path that runs parallel to the private drive and goes under the bridge? From above if someone had parked a car and/or were standing on the car path directly beneath the bridge would you be able to see them? (I realize if leaves are on trees that would make it very difficult to see the path on either side of the bridge from above, but I'm also wondering if it's still visible through the slats of the bridge.) TIA

I've crossed it a couple of dozen times, easily. Been going to that park since I was a little kid. It's always been a place that we would go for picnics and to walk around and take pictures. When I was younger, going across the bridge didn't bother me that much. (It always bothered the adults to watch us, ha ha, but as kids we were fearless.) I found that the older I got, the "scarier" it got. The last time I crossed it, which was a little over a year ago, I just happened to look UP (not down) and I completely lost my balance. It freaked me out. I liked to have not finished the crossing. Definitely not a normal pace or gait. Some of the slats are kind of far apart and I have small feet. It's more like a take one step, bring your feet together, take the next step. There are parts of the bridge where you could see the little road underneath but it's not something you can see under the whole thing. If someone were standing under the bridge it would depend on where on the bridge that YOU were standing to determine whether or not you could see them. It is a very long bridge, much longer than it looks in the pictures. Like I said, some of the slats are kind of far apart but some are very close together. To get a good view you'd have to move over to the edge and kind of lean your body to one side. Not something I would do.

Some people speculated that Abby was looking down in her picture because she was scared or even looking at someone below her. I am not surprised that she was looking down because that's how most of us walk on that thing. You have to watch your footing.

Also, it hasn't been brought up here, I don't think, but there was some speculation that people were hanging out under the bridge-as in RIGHT under the bridge to where they could climb up over it and surprise the girls. That's not possible. There's really nowhere to stand and the height between the rails and the slats is just too great. I will eat my hat if we learn that BG had a companion dangling off the slats and waiting for the girls to finish crossing.

What I am surprised about is IF there was really a couple there standing under the bridge at around the time the girls were there, they didn't see or hear the girls. Because while it's difficult to see directly beneath you when you're ON the bridge, it's definitely easy to see/hear the people walking above you when you're UNDER it. I've been under the bridge a couple of times and we've always been immediately aware whenever someone started walking across it.

 

[Try2solve]

I've crossed it a couple of dozen times, easily. Been going to that park since I was a little kid. It's always been a place that we would go for picnics and to walk around and take pictures. When I was younger, going across the bridge didn't bother me that much. (It always bothered the adults to watch us, ha ha, but as kids we were fearless.) I found that the older I got, the "scarier" it got. The last time I crossed it, which was a little over a year ago, I just happened to look UP (not down) and I completely lost my balance. It freaked me out. I liked to have not finished the crossing. Definitely not a normal pace or gait. Some of the slats are kind of far apart and I have small feet. It's more like a take one step, bring your feet together, take the next step. There are parts of the bridge where you could see the little road underneath but it's not something you can see under the whole thing. If someone were standing under the bridge it would depend on where on the bridge that YOU were standing to determine whether or not you could see them. It is a very long bridge, much longer than it looks in the pictures. Like I said, some of the slats are kind of far apart but some are very close together. To get a good view you'd have to move over to the edge and kind of lean your body to one side. Not something I would do.

Some people speculated that Abby was looking down in her picture because she was scared or even looking at someone below her. I am not surprised that she was looking down because that's how most of us walk on that thing. You have to watch your footing.

Also, it hasn't been brought up here, I don't think, but there was some speculation that people were hanging out under the bridge-as in RIGHT under the bridge to where they could climb up over it and surprise the girls. That's not possible. There's really nowhere to stand and the height between the rails and the slats is just too great. I will eat my hat if we learn that BG had a companion dangling off the slats and waiting for the girls to finish crossing.

What I am surprised about is IF there was really a couple there standing under the bridge at around the time the girls were there, they didn't see or hear the girls. Because while it's difficult to see directly beneath you when you're ON the bridge, it's definitely easy to see/hear the people walking above you when you're UNDER it. I've been under the bridge a couple of times and we've always been immediately aware whenever someone started walking across it.

Excellent Post. Your description was so real I felt like I was walking it myself.
Especially useful of those on the bridge not being aware of who was under it.
Only makes sense BG had help. Not only could someone have come on the bridge but also under it. There had to be a lookout. JMO

 

[kizzykat]

I've crossed it a couple of dozen times, easily. Been going to that park since I was a little kid. It's always been a place that we would go for picnics and to walk around and take pictures. When I was younger, going across the bridge didn't bother me that much. (It always bothered the adults to watch us, ha ha, but as kids we were fearless.) I found that the older I got, the "scarier" it got. The last time I crossed it, which was a little over a year ago, I just happened to look UP (not down) and I completely lost my balance. It freaked me out. I liked to have not finished the crossing. Definitely not a normal pace or gait. Some of the slats are kind of far apart and I have small feet. It's more like a take one step, bring your feet together, take the next step. There are parts of the bridge where you could see the little road underneath but it's not something you can see under the whole thing. If someone were standing under the bridge it would depend on where on the bridge that YOU were standing to determine whether or not you could see them. It is a very long bridge, much longer than it looks in the pictures. Like I said, some of the slats are kind of far apart but some are very close together. To get a good view you'd have to move over to the edge and kind of lean your body to one side. Not something I would do.

Some people speculated that Abby was looking down in her picture because she was scared or even looking at someone below her. I am not surprised that she was looking down because that's how most of us walk on that thing. You have to watch your footing.

Also, it hasn't been brought up here, I don't think, but there was some speculation that people were hanging out under the bridge-as in RIGHT under the bridge to where they could climb up over it and surprise the girls. That's not possible. There's really nowhere to stand and the height between the rails and the slats is just too great. I will eat my hat if we learn that BG had a companion dangling off the slats and waiting for the girls to finish crossing.

What I am surprised about is IF there was really a couple there standing under the bridge at around the time the girls were there, they didn't see or hear the girls. Because while it's difficult to see directly beneath you when you're ON the bridge, it's definitely easy to see/hear the people walking above you when you're UNDER it. I've been under the bridge a couple of times and we've always been immediately aware whenever someone started walking across it.

Thanks and BBM. I'm confused about that car path (have been for awhile). Are you saying it runs parallel to the bridge or perpendicular? Can you give us an idea of where the car path starts, which direction it goes and where it ends?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I recommend watching this video from Mr. Hughes. It should answer the questions about the vehicle tracks:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ezAbZFHYWbc


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[sleuther0192837465]

Also, the couple “under the bridge” was a mistake when BP relayed it to DG. The couple was seen on the bridge. No link, but it was stated by an admin in Mr. Hughes SM group. You’d have to look into it as I can not post it here. MOO


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[sleuther0192837465]

I recommend watching this video from Mr. Hughes. It should answer the questions about the vehicle tracks:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ezAbZFHYWbc


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He mentions the old railroad tracks at the 23:33 mark. Is this what everyone is calling “vehicle track”? MOO


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[Try2solve]

I don't believe BG is poor. Another possibility is someone from Delphi helped secure those girls for him, for an amount in the neighborhood of say 5-10K. With the sex trade all over the internet anythings possible. Even if the person who set it up didn't expect BG to murder them, how after the fact could he go to LE?

 

[gregjrichards]

Locals - is there anything in the local news about the number of tips increasing since the press conference during the week? I hope and pray it wasn’t a waste of time.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think it's also good to go back to the people law enforcement had questions for. In order for the new prosecutor to have probable cause for so many subpoenas (Mcleland said up to 12) there had to be new information. Now what happened around the same time Mcleland started in January? I've also been keeping my eye on new charges being filed in Carroll County. For example, 2 people(regular, with jobs etc) were charged with theft of a car from 3 years ago. The woman charged is a friend with one of the moms on Facebook. Coincidence? Maybe. Also a major drug dealer was charged in Carroll County a couple days after someone was released on home confinement and the judge admonished him at the hearing for hanging around known drug people. All I'm saying is that I believe someone in Carroll County knows more and with all this police questioning a lot more is coming to light.
I feel BG has some kind of connection to someone in Delphi.

https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...GaWxlRW5kIjpudWxsLCJDb3VudHlDb2RlIjpudWxsfX0=

I will try and do a search for cases from January in Mycase. It is possible to search by date and Atty.

Link added above there are only 7 cases from beginning of January till now.

 

[Try2solve]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...1994000343&refsrc=http://t.co/ptD2c3suoa&_rdr
Has this interview with Nicolas Mcleland been linked already?
Apologies if so.

What jumps out at me is when McLeland talks about who he brought in right away to talk about the evidence and strategy the FBI was NOT in the meeting. This makes me believe the last portion of this case is strictly local. If they were still looking for BG, who could be anywhere, FBI would've been in that meeting too. My opinion is there are two parts of this case: Out of state BG and local involvement.JMO

 

[passepartout]

I don't know about cell reception but I believe calls were made to Libby's phone so there was a belief that one could answer at the bridge/trails.

Cell reception goes in and out there. Some spots are very poor, then you move a few feet and it's better. But it's usually quite slow sending texts or photo via text.

 

[jillybean51]

I've been looking at crimes that happened in the days after the murders, especially suspicious deaths. Is it possible that the only person who could positively ID BG is now dead as well? Were there any "accidental" deaths or murders a few days after the crime? It's another avenue to explore.

Or suicides...

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[jillybean51]

Meant as PM sorry

 

[Maplesyrup]

I agree about the appearance of the BG sketch, the photo on the bridge and the sound of the voice. I work on the phone talking to people daily. I can gauge ages/ethnicity very accurately. The voice that LE offered up is of an older man, my guess is 40's to early 60's. I do wonder if there are at least 2 men involved. I live in a region of my state where there are several hunting clubs. People pay a lot of money to come in to hunt wild game that has been stocked. It is a grim reality for the animals - they are stocked in the club [the meadow and woods] for the purpose of hunting and killing. I have previously mentioned the dark web/dark net. [The underbelly of the internet that not everyone knows about]. The thought occurred to me that there are violent human predators out there who enjoy hunting and there may be a market for hunting humans that are offered up in a remote/secured area. I don't know if this angle is viable. It certainly is evil, twisted and sick but in light of what goes on with humans who prey on innocent children/adults, anything is possible. So there could be the one who arranges/procures and the hunter who arrives to stalk his prey. It could be a simple as the one who procures goes about stalking girls on social media and setting something up. There could even be more than 2 men involved. Lookouts could be used. It just seems there is more going on in this case than only one man [BG]. JMO.

I’m with you on this. All of this.


Today is the day

 

[Tricia]

Dear Websleuths Members,

Do you think it is correct to assume the police have a lot more evidence that they have not released to the public?

Could it be safe to assume there is DNA belonging to the perp in police possession?

Is it safe to assume there is more of the perps voice on the recording? Is it safe to assume police did a voice match with DN and it did not match?

Don't you think if Daniel Nations, having been turned inside out and his life torn apart, had even the slightest possibility of being the perp the police would never say they were no longer interested in him?

We have a picture, we have voice recording, we have a fantastic sketch. When or if they catch the perp all of those things will line up quickly.

You can't put a round peg in a square hole.

We have been doing this, a true crime discussion forum, for over 14 years.

Thru trial and error, we have come up with our rules. Yes, they are very strict but there is a good reason for being so strict.

When you have thousands of people discussing a specific topic things can get out of hand very quickly.

Forgive me if you have heard this before. It wasn't until 2008 that Websleuths decided to really tighten the rules.

I received so much hate mail, so much "YOU'RE GOING TO FAIL, YOU'RE NOT LETTING US TALK, ALL THE GOOD POSTERS ARE LEAVING" day and night that I really doubted the decision to tighten things up.

What started happening is other posters came out of the woodwork. The negative comments gave way to "I could never post because I was afraid of being attacked now I can post again" type comments.

Our membership went up and we have continued to grow and become what we are today.

If someone can send me a private message, don't post it on the thread here, but a private message pointing out a good solid reason or reasons why
DN is the perp then I will let you discuss DN again.

I don't think he looks like the perp so there's that and the police superintendent has stated DN is not of interest to them. So there's that too.

A clear, concise, short list of why DN should still be a POI. Please don't make me take a fantastic journey through la la land to try and make DN fit what we know so far.

Thanks for reading.

Tricia