GUILTY IN - Amanda Blackburn, 28, pregnant, murdered, Indianapolis, 10 Nov 2015 #4

[DeDee]

Rude ? I apologize if it came across that way, but certainly was not my intent.

Your apology is accepted.

I also gave you examples of what I do in similar situations, and I don't believe I am alone on this. Reasons why I have done this in the past :

1. To not disturb my child that was sleeping. ( i talk loud sometimes)
2. To give full attention to the person I was talking to, knowing that when walking in the door might divide my focus.
3. Hands free blue tooth system in my car, and don't want to risk losing the call - so finish the call in the car.


I'm sure there are more. But I have done this many times, which is why I say it's plausible.

I have left my car running before and I'm sure others have as well.

This case is not about you. It is about a murdered young married lady, Amanda Blackburn, who recently announced that they were expecting their second child, Evie Grace. What you or I would do in any given situation really does not matter in this investigation of the facts.

I am not following you when you say we cannot base our plausible assumptions on any case. That's kind of what you do is weigh plausibility of everything and sometimes... even the implausible is the truth. You made a statement that was suggesting it was implausible to stay outside in a car with a given temperature. I am just saying it's not implausible. I'm not saying that what you said couldn't be true. But If you are saying someone might not stay outside for any of the reasons listed - I am not sure what to say, because I have done each one of them and more I believe it to be common with many people as well. I've seen comments even on just this small sampling of people that mirror what I am saying.

We can agree to disagree about this point. In fact, you are so busy defending all the things you would do on the phone while in a car when it's freezing outside that you've missed my point.

Sorry if you took that I was being rude. I'm just saying that it's not at all implausible to me that he stay outside to finish a call. I'm not looking to insult you.

My point was to show the Timeline. It was not to dispute whether or not it was likely for you, me, bessie, or anyone else to sit inside their car to complete a phone call. I also wonder why Davey would not think it odd that he was in their driveway for a lengthy time but Amanda never came out to check on him. However, I don't want to debate why Amanda did not go check on her husband. I am discussing the Timeline. It appears everyone on this thread is missing the important point, a critical clue, of my post regarding the Timeline.

 

[DeDee]

Yes. Kenneth Wagner, his HS friend and a pastor who lives in another state. Kenneth happened to tweet that morning that he loves doing life with Davey Blackburn and that he loves their weekly conversations.

ETA: if you go to the blackburn church websisite, you can listen to his sermon where he preached in Davey's stead.

Very Good! This is correct information, HiandMighty. KW did send out a tweet regarding his recent ph call with Davey Blackburn.

 

[DeDee]

This is what you said in relation to conversation about neighbors who heard gunshots and a scream and didn't report them to police or 911:

" If the person heard gunshots then Amanda was dying. She was dying while Davey sat in his car for 40 minutes, too." -

Actually, I was responding to blaming the neighbors for not making a 911 ph call. If the neighbor heard a gunshot, even though we know Amanda was shot at least three times, then she was dying. Amanda was dying when Davey sat inside his car while on the phone, too.

My point was that the difference is that Davey didn't hear gunshots or a scream. So how is what you said relevant to our discussion about neighbors not responding to gunshots and a scream? Why does davey sitting in his car for 40 minutes have anything to do with that scream and gunshots and neighbors not calling police. You used the word "too" in that sentence, which links the two topics. that's all I am saying. One is not the other.

I wrote in Post #94 that: "I don't think we need to place blame on the neighbors." I still feel it is wrong to blame neighbors for not using the Nextdoor app or phoning 911. They may be living with their own regrets for not doing so.

My suggestion was that maybe they thought it might be someone watching TV loudly ? You theorized a car backfiring. gunshots without a scream and maybe I could agree with you. I apologize, not trying to be rude, just saying that I don't think that was the case. I don't think he/she thought it was a loud TV either, I was just pondering what he/she could possibly think it would be that wouldn't warrant calling the police.

Again, please stop changing my words. I never once said anything about a car backfiring nor is it my theory. This is what I wrote about that:

"I am confused over why you bring loud movies into this discussion. The tragedy struck in the early morning hours but if it was in the nighttime hours, I may agree that is possible that loud movies were being watched by neighbors. But it still has zilch to do with the timeline."

But yes, the gunshots and scream are not in direct relation to the timeline in the context of our conversation. But you are the one who brought that aspect up, I just responded.

Until I have LEO stating there was gunfire heard, and I may have missed it, but until then, I cannot consider it as evidence. Ditto for any scream that may or may not have been heard.

EDIT -- I can't find the statement about the car backfiring, not sure if it got modsnipped / removed or if I just imagined you said it - But not sure what would be good reason for not calling police, other than the person thought it wasn't gunshots and a scream.

You cannot find it because I did not write it. I know exactly what bessie snipped and I know why she did it. However, the snipped portion had nothing to do with a car backfiring.

The fact is: none of the neighbors dialed 911 to report a gunshot, multiple gunshots or a man walking down the street wearing a hoodie as if trying to hide his face. They didn't call police when they saw him on the Blackburn's porch either. We can't change those facts. So there is no point in discussing what any of us would have done in a similar situation.

 

[Lilibet]

Having read all the posts it appears to me that talking about the "timeline" is being used as a way to continue to question Davey's involvement in his wife's murder. It's not too hard to read the little side comments and figure that out IMO. There is no other reason to keep pushing this as an issue on WS. It doesn't matter why Davey sat in the car on the phone or for how long. It doesn't matter what we would or wouldn't do. Talking on the phone in his car doesn't make him culpable and it isn't suspicious behavior. What is it about this particular part of "the timeline" that is so important? I don't get it. JMO

If I'm reading these comments wrong, I apologize. But I've read them over and over and I keep getting the same critical vibe.

 

[CocoChanel]

My point was to show the Timeline. It was not to dispute whether or not it was likely for you, me, bessie, or anyone else to sit inside their car to complete a phone call. I also wonder why Davey would not think it odd that he was in their driveway for a lengthy time but Amanda never came out to check on him. However, I don't want to debate why Amanda did not go check on her husband. I am discussing the Timeline. It appears everyone on this thread is missing the important point, a critical clue, of my post regarding the Timeline.

Since I am apparently part of the "everyone on this thread" group you say is missing your point, I would appreciate any guidance you can give me to remedy that. Is your point that something on the timeline doesn't fit, or that it is too tight, or is suspicious? I am trying to follow, and I thank you for your patience as I genuinely want to understand.

 

[DeDee]

I am done with discussing the timeline. Let's move on, shall we?

 

[Lilibet]

I am done with discussing the timeline. Let's move on, shall we?

Well, if the point of the timeline discussion was what I pointed out, moving on is a good idea. But if we are truly missing an important clue, as was stated, then it would be appropriate to inform us what it is. If there is a valid point about the timeline that should be discussed here, I certainly have no objection.
JMO

 

[whonos]

I am done with discussing the timeline. Let's move on, shall we?

The only thing I see is that Davey's friend repeatedly says that they spoke every Tuesday from 7 to 8. He says nothing, in the news article, about speaking longer, until 8:20, on that particular day. Did he know that Davey was in his driveway for most of that time?
Maybe it was normal for Davey to stay in his car on Tuesdays, while they talked. They were all kind of in shock, but Kenneth never said "Gosh, I wish we had not talked for so long".


My ex mother-in-law was an Evangelical Christian. She and her friends had The Holy Spirit guiding them so Everything they did was Perfect according to God's Will. She would never have wished she had finished her call sooner and gone inside. (It was impossible to have a conversation with her.)

Maybe Davey's belief system encompasses some of these ideas? I don't know.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm confused. Did anybody see them at the front door or perimeter of any of these houses? I thought they were just seen walking around the neighborhood. I assumed on the sidewalk (from the video still shot that was released).

I'm torn about this. If I saw somebody who looked suspicious in my neighborhood, I would call the police and let my neighbors know. What is suspicious though? Sure, going up to a house, walking around it, kicking in the door/window....

But I think we live in a post George Zimmerman world. Just because a black kid is wearing a hoodie walking in the dark, shouldn't make him suspicious just for that. Obviously, in Amanda's case, the hoodie wearing black kid was a bad guy and fit the "profile" so often over-used.

And the sound of the gun.....I don't know if I would know that sound. I live in a very quiet subdivision and if I heard a loud gunshot, I would probably think it was a car or something like that. I don't think my first thought would be gunshot.

I'm sure these neighbors do feel horribly. I would too.

About the gunshots being heard and not reported that is one thing that is often repeated in cases where the victim was shot. So many more times than not either the neighbors said they didn't hear a gunshot or they rationalized it away thinking it may be a backfiring of a vehicle or maybe firecrackers. There have even been cases where multiple victims were shot inside an apartment and the person living next door, separated only by a wall, didn't hear anything at all. Human beings, especially those who think they live safe neighborhoods... don't go around thinking they are going to hear gunfire. And they certainly aren't walking around thinking gunfire means someone is being shot in a home close by them. Instead, like I said, a lot of time they rationalize it away by thinking they may have heard wrong and it wasn't really a gunshot.

I am glad that some are expressing their own life experiences about the cell phone conversation Pastor Davey had inside of his vehicle that morning with his friend who is a Pastor too iirc. Even Judges in criminal trials tells the jurors to pull from their own life experience when weighing the events/evidence.

It is so common for those with cell phones to finish their conversation they are having by remaining in the vehicle until its completed. Both my hubby and I have done this on several occasions. Its just easier to do rather than using one hand to do everything else it would take to continue the conversation toward and inside of our homes. His actions that day are very commonplace imo.

No matter when Davey may have found Amanda she would have died and I am sure LE and the ME has told him that. I imagine she immediately went unconscious and stayed that way until taken off life support.

I think if there is one thing we have learned in this case is Pastor Davey is a very talkative man. Most Pastors are since that is what they do. They often are talking to someone whether it be someone in need, friend, family or someone in his congregation. It doesn't surprise me he talked that long at all and its obvious Davey loves to talk about Jesus when given any opportunity to do so.

This had to be a very sad TG holiday for Davey and Weston with Amanda not being there physically and only an empty chair remains to remind them all who they have truly lost that meant everything to them. Davey said they had done a long distance relationship before and now he knows she is still there with him and Weston so he will continue to talk with her now that she is far away in Heaven.

God bless all of these families who have endured this terrible tragedy. God certainly has another beautiful Angel with Him now.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I don't think we need to place blame on the neighbors. I use Nextdoor. I may have phoned 911 or would have notified Nextdoor to ask if anyone else heard or saw something. However, blaming the neighbors for NOT calling 911 is just plain wrong. If the person heard gunshots then Amanda was dying. She was dying while Davey sat in his car for 40 minutes, too.

I've mentioned previously that we hear gunshots here fairly frequently (as in, maybe once a month or so). It's really, really hard to pinpoint from what direction they came, so if we called 911, we'd be calling solely to mark the time of the shots (which may or may not have been related to criminal activity since people can and do accidentally discharge guns). I agree that the scream makes things a bit different, but at the same time, you might scream if you accidentally discharge a firearm. The neighbors weren't negligent. They may have even thought, at the time, that they were hearing a car backfiring rather than a weapon discharging and didn't realize until later that what they really heard was a GS.

The only people responsible for Amanda's death, at the end of the day, were those who murdered her.

 

[Lilibet]

I've mentioned previously that we hear gunshots here fairly frequently (as in, maybe once a month or so). It's really, really hard to pinpoint from what direction they came, so if we called 911, we'd be calling solely to mark the time of the shots (which may or may not have been related to criminal activity since people can and do accidentally discharge guns). I agree that the scream makes things a bit different, but at the same time, you might scream if you accidentally discharge a firearm. The neighbors weren't negligent. They may have even thought, at the time, that they were hearing a car backfiring rather than a weapon discharging and didn't realize until later that what they really heard was a GS.

The only people responsible for Amanda's death, at the end of the day, were those who murdered her.

BBM

Exactly. Sounds are definitely hard to identify and pinpoint. I don't fault the neighbors. But then there are the neighbors who correctly called the police because they heard shouts of "You're going to die. I'm going to kill you," crashing furniture and a woman screaming in the middle of the night. When the police arrived, they found a single, arachnophobic man with bug spray who had been chasing a spider around his apartment. The man was the one screaming like a woman because he is "really, really" afraid of spiders. Police searched his apartment to confirm his story and found the "rather large" spider. Poor guy.

So as a neighbor, you do the best you can, and sometimes you can be helpful, but not always.

Warning: Link has a photo of a spider.
http://chronicledaily.com/2015/11/29/domestic-violence-call-turns-out-to-be-man-trying-to-kill/

 

[Hiandmighty]

I accept that DB is 100% cleared and is a victim.

I don't see him as a likable guy and understanding that he did not know his wife was dying inside the house for the 50 minutes, I ding him as a husband (from my pov) for not going inside when this was a weekly conversation with a long time friend. His wife is more important than his friend. (Or should be). She was early pg with a toddler who is what 18 months old. She needed help!

A poster said she was detecting criticism and I'm explaining where my criticism comes from. I feel very bad for Davey and his son. I imagine it will be very hard to move on from this and I imagine DB will need at least 4 or so months off before he can begin to rebuild his life.

ETA: the sermon Wagner gave tells is his own words about the phone call and how he found out about Amanda's murdef

 

[Ontario Mom]

Sadly it is no different than the world was 50+ years ago, in 1964, when a young woman, Kitty Genovese, was attacked and murdered in Queens, NY. At least a dozen people heard her scream, and a few saw glimpses of the attack, but no one called LE until it was too late. It was the first crime that the public heard about folks/witnesses 'not wanting to get involved' . That was most likely an overstatement/exaggeration in the press.
From this Wiki article:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese



and...


I can imagine a scenario where I would doubt myself about what I had seen or heard. I have questioned myself in a similar situation when I heard yelling and banging/crashing items at a residence cross the street. I think my sensibilities are heightened by my presence here on this board so I easily overcame the momentary second guessing and called LE immediately. It turned out to not be a crime in progress, but I would not hesitate to call again. I just think members here are not average witnesses. We all know the depths of human depravity by reading here, so I believe any one of us would respond quickly.

Interesting that you mention Kitty Genovese. I was just a kid when I first read about her case (in a True Crime magazine) and remember feeling sick inside to learn how many could have helped, and chose not to. I have no doubt it was reading her case at such a young age that shaped my thinking about this kind of thing.

 

[MaxManning]

Actually, I was responding to blaming the neighbors for not making a 911 ph call. If the neighbor heard a gunshot, even though we know Amanda was shot at least three times, then she was dying. Amanda was dying when Davey sat inside his car while on the phone, too.



I wrote in Post #94 that: "I don't think we need to place blame on the neighbors." I still feel it is wrong to blame neighbors for not using the Nextdoor app or phoning 911. They may be living with their own regrets for not doing so.



Again, please stop changing my words. I never once said anything about a car backfiring nor is it my theory. This is what I wrote about that:

"I am confused over why you bring loud movies into this discussion. The tragedy struck in the early morning hours but if it was in the nighttime hours, I may agree that is possible that loud movies were being watched by neighbors. But it still has zilch to do with the timeline."



Until I have LEO stating there was gunfire heard, and I may have missed it, but until then, I cannot consider it as evidence. Ditto for any scream that may or may not have been heard.



You cannot find it because I did not write it. I know exactly what bessie snipped and I know why she did it. However, the snipped portion had nothing to do with a car backfiring.

The fact is: none of the neighbors dialed 911 to report a gunshot, multiple gunshots or a man walking down the street wearing a hoodie as if trying to hide his face. They didn't call police when they saw him on the Blackburn's porch either. We can't change those facts. So there is no point in discussing what any of us would have done in a similar situation.

[/COLOR]

I edited my response after i wrote it to say I wasn't sure you said it was a backfire and that it's possible that I was even possibly imagining it because this conversation has been made before here and on other sites.

Again, I apologize if you think I am feuding with you in some way, that is not the case at all.

Respectfully, when you say "Until I have LEO stating there was gunfire heard, and I may have missed it, but until then, I cannot consider it as evidence. Ditto for any scream that may or may not have been heard." , I am not sure how to respond to that beyond saying that it's a part of the PC document on both gunshots and scream. I feel as if you feel this is an adversarial conversation.

You state that I cannot suggest that something common that I and others do can be noted, but yet you saying that temperature makes it odd that he stay in the car is fair game if you say it ?

The fact is the temperature. Your suggestion and my suggestion as to why he stayed in the car , are our opinions based on us as individuals.

I am ok leaving this conversation as it is, because I don't think anything I am suggesting in regards to staying in the car is something that many haven't done just the same.

I do enjoy analyzing this case from many directions and possible scenarios.

We disagree as to how important a detail temperature likely was an in his decision as to leaving the car or not. Not sure what we disagree on in regards to gunshots and scream, but I'm ok with saying I don't think it's a huge impact on the case other than marking a time and a cursory discussion we were having on neighbors not having called the police being not the best decision.

Both minor details imo in regards to the case, so I would agree it's best to just end with we disagree on these aspects. I am also ok with disagreeing on the importance of these details.

I apologize again, and I assure you I am not looking to insult anyone for what they believe, I am just giving my opinion and supporting reasons.

 

[MaxManning]

Here is the comment and it was BrownRice that said :

"And the sound of the gun.....I don't know if I would know that sound. I live in a very quiet subdivision and if I heard a loud gunshot, I would probably think it was a car or something like that. I don't think my first thought would be gunshot."


The confusion on my part was because two conversations merged and I was mistaken about who said what. which will likely happen again, bear with me. Sometimes when reading multiple responses in succession it happens.

This is why I had theorized as to what else someone might think the sounds were. It wasn't an attempt to be rude or scramble things up.

Sorry again all, wasn't intentional.

 

[Lilibet]

I accept that DB is 100% cleared and is a victim.

I don't see him as a likable guy and understanding that he did not know his wife was dying inside the house for the 50 minutes, I ding him as a husband (from my pov) for not going inside when this was a weekly conversation with a long time friend. His wife is more important than his friend. (Or should be). She was early pg with a toddler who is what 18 months old. She needed help!

A poster said she was detecting criticism and I'm explaining where my criticism comes from. I feel very bad for Davey and his son. I imagine it will be very hard to move on from this and I imagine DB will need at least 4 or so months off before he can begin to rebuild his life.

ETA: the sermon Wagner gave tells is his own words about the phone call and how he found out about Amanda's murdef

Thanks for clarifying your feelings. I do understand your criticism, taken by itself, having long ago been the mother of my own toddler. You need all hands on deck! We'll never know if Amanda and Davey had some kind of agreement about this regular phone call.

What I was seeing in the thread was an accumulation of small comments in different posts that, when added together, seemed to be implying something unthinkable. Hopefully, I was wrong and the discussion is over.

 

[bessie]

A word of advice that can be helpful to everyone: Avoid personal remarks in posts. Count the "you" statements before clicking "Submit". If they comprise more than five percent of the post, editing might be required.

 

[JeannaT]

I accept that DB is 100% cleared and is a victim.

I don't see him as a likable guy and understanding that he did not know his wife was dying inside the house for the 50 minutes, I ding him as a husband (from my pov) for not going inside when this was a weekly conversation with a long time friend. His wife is more important than his friend. (Or should be). She was early pg with a toddler who is what 18 months old. She needed help!

A poster said she was detecting criticism and I'm explaining where my criticism comes from. I feel very bad for Davey and his son. I imagine it will be very hard to move on from this and I imagine DB will need at least 4 or so months off before he can begin to rebuild his life.

ETA: the sermon Wagner gave tells is his own words about the phone call and how he found out about Amanda's murdef

Having been a mom with kids, I disagree that she needed help. I needed no help - whatsoever - taking care of a toddler during breakfast time while I was early pregnant. It's just not that hard, unless you are severely ill or have an extremely difficult or disabled toddler. It's not that hard. What is worse, IMHO, would be to have someone in the house talking on the phone right there where you have to keep the child a little quiet during an hour long conversations.

IMHO, it's a courtesy to handle the call in the car. And if my husband were in the car talking on the phone, I wouldn't run out there and demand to know why. It's most likely I wouldn't even know he had returned.

 

[bluesneakers]

I accept that DB is 100% cleared and is a victim.

I don't see him as a likable guy and understanding that he did not know his wife was dying inside the house for the 50 minutes, I ding him as a husband (from my pov) for not going inside when this was a weekly conversation with a long time friend. His wife is more important than his friend. (Or should be). She was early pg with a toddler who is what 18 months old. She needed help!

A poster said she was detecting criticism and I'm explaining where my criticism comes from. I feel very bad for Davey and his son. I imagine it will be very hard to move on from this and I imagine DB will need at least 4 or so months off before he can begin to rebuild his life.

ETA: the sermon Wagner gave tells is his own words about the phone call and how he found out about Amanda's murdef

She was only 12 weeks pregnant. Plenty of parents take care of toddlers all day while their partners work, and lots and lots of people are single parents who have no helper waiting in a car in the driveway.

There was no need for him to go rushing in, and taking the time to chat with a good friend doesn't imply his friend is more important than his wife.

JMO

 

[heidisams]

Of course I don't know Amanda personally, but, from everything we've heard about her, she loved being a mother and seemed to appreciate the time she spent with Weston... I have a feeling she had things under control... and it appears they were even ready to do it again...


All jmo.