IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[neesaki]

I apologize for disrupting the thread, but does someone have a link to the video of the fall please?

There’s no video of the actual fall that I know of. Do you mean the video of the step grandfather putting her to the window then letting her go / losing her?

 

[neesaki]

The prosecution offering a plea deal with no time served, suggests they don't believe it was premeditated murder.

I would like to have seen the depraved heart murder rather than involuntary, (or which ever carried the stiffer sentence.) Reading the definition of DHM it certainly seems to fit.

Has there been a formal plea deal offered? I haven’t heard anything since the defense attorney’s statement that it had been discussed, something like that. And the prosecutors office stating there had not been a plea but the option hadn’t been discarded.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Safeguard]

Personally, I have found it best not to project as the norm what I would do or what is usually observed in a particular situation. On many threads what seemed to be abnormal or suspicious behavior ends up meaning nothing. People react differently.

What was really abnormal about SA’s behavior was holding Chloe out the window and risking her life. How he acted after he dropped her doesn’t mean that he did it on purpose IMO. We really have no basis for “going there” on the thread, but it seems to be slipping in again. The carelessness SA showed (depraved indifference for Chloe’s safety and life) is bad enough IMO. LE will let us know if/when they add more charges.

Another point: Something I have to remind myself is that the videos are in slow motion. The whole thing happened much faster. So the approximately 30 seconds on the video that Chloe was held outside the window is not real time. That being said, I don’t think we can say that he “tossed” her out the window. Unintentional idiocy can happen just as quickly as a deliberate act.
JMO

The real time was stated as being 30 seconds. The news reporters who interviewed SA. made a correction. (and he looked pretty shook up when he did.). Wink told the station, it was likely a software error that made it seem to have happened much quicker.
I'll

 

[Chikkamma]

Im sorry you feel my posts are "combative". I have a feeling any opinion other than SA being a cold blooded killer would be seen as "combative" by some.

Chloe's mom gave an interview and stated exactly what she said at the time.

No apology needed. I do not believe SA is a cold-blooded killer, but I do think premeditation is a possibility. I suspect it has been investigated by the prosecution but they do not have enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Personally, I have found it best not to project as the norm what I would do or what is usually observed in a particular situation. On many threads what seemed to be abnormal or suspicious behavior ends up meaning nothing. People react differently.

What was really abnormal about SA’s behavior was holding Chloe out the window and risking her life. How he acted after he dropped her doesn’t mean that he did it on purpose IMO. We really have no basis for “going there” on the thread, but it seems to be slipping in again. The carelessness SA showed (depraved indifference for Chloe’s safety and life) is bad enough IMO. LE will let us know if/when they add more charges.

Another point: Something I have to remind myself is that the videos are in slow motion. The whole thing happened much faster. So the approximately 30 seconds on the video that Chloe was held outside the window is not real time. That being said, I don’t think we can say that he “tossed” her out the window. Unintentional idiocy can happen just as quickly as a deliberate act.
JMO

Individual people do react differently to grief and tragic events, but patterns cannot be ignored. It could perhaps be argued that the ways people do not act are more universal.

In the Scott Peterson trial, his attorney Mark Geragos explained Peterson’s unusual behavior in the immediate aftermath of his wife’s death by arguing that “Everyone grieves differently.” The prosecution replied, “True, but NOBODY grieves like Scott Peterson!”.

I think it is worth analyzing in detail grandpa’s post-accident behavior for this reason.

JMO.

 

[Safeguard]

Personally, I have found it best not to project as the norm what I would do or what is usually observed in a particular situation. On many threads what seemed to be abnormal or suspicious behavior ends up meaning nothing. People react differently.

What was really abnormal about SA’s behavior was holding Chloe out the window and risking her life. How he acted after he dropped her doesn’t mean that he did it on purpose IMO. We really have no basis for “going there” on the thread, but it seems to be slipping in again. The carelessness SA showed (depraved indifference for Chloe’s safety and life) is bad enough IMO. LE will let us know if/when they add more charges.

Another point: Something I have to remind myself is that the videos are in slow motion. The whole thing happened much faster. So the approximately 30 seconds on the video that Chloe was held outside the window is not real time. That being said, I don’t think we can say that he “tossed” her out the window. Unintentional idiocy can happen just as quickly as a deliberate act.
JMO

The real time was stated as being 25seconds. The news reporters who interviewed SA. made a correction. (and he looked pretty shook up when he did.). Wink told the station, it was likely a software error that made it seem to have happened much quicker.

 

[Safeguard]

Grandfather cries as he recounts toddler falling to her death from a cruise ship - CNN

"The video shown to us was not in real time," correspondent David Begnaud said. The family attorney "says the video that he showed us was the same format he received from prosecutors," Begnaud added.
Noting a discrepancy in how long Anello was holding Chloe, Begnaud said, "the grandfather actually looks out the window for about eight seconds. He reaches down, he picks Chloe up, and he holds her over the railing for nearly 25 seconds."
In a statement to CBS News, Winkleman said, "any variation in time likely has to do with software issues. Most importantly, whether it was 5, 10, or 30 seconds does nothing to change the fact that Sam reasonably believed the window was closed. "

Winkleman was trying to pull a fast one imo. Making it seem as though the whole incident happened so fast, giving SA no time to notice the window was open. Pfffffft!

 

[LietKynes]

I doubt Chloe has been "forgotten" by anyone. Most likely no one will ever forget a single searing second of her death. But what can be done for her at this point? Those she left are in crisis and are dealing with unbelievably painful things, what are they supposed to do? What exactly, besides give up the misguided law suit, would you like them to being doing?

snipped for focus

The way it appears now, Chloe will be remembered as the toddler who had a lawyer (Winkleman) and possibly others who wanted to get rich off her dying. Instead of teaching people the risks involved when certain types like S.A. do not think before they act.
A small life recklessly snuffed out before it barely began.
That is the true tragedy.

What --would giving up the lawsuit hurt the parents ?
Money won't bring her back and the ongoing struggle for money is insulting to Chloe's legacy.
Where is the concern for Chloe who deserves the full truth to come out and be told ?
All of this time and still no admittance of fault, and a forthcoming apology.

She is the victim and in a lesser sense so is RCCL.
And not S.A. who by his own words; 'thought there was glass'/ 'Chloe wanted to be lifted up to bang on the glass'/'might be colorblind'/'thought the window was closed except for the hidden hole in the wall of glass'/ take your pick, as there are more excuses.
That last bolded bit is not directed at anyone in particular-- it's a general observation.

This was entirely preventable and a waste of a young life for no reason ; and no one seems to care as long as grandpa doesn't face consequences and the lawsuit is successful so that people can tell themselves it's RCCL's fault.
Wrong on so many levels.

 

[cobalt sky]

There’s no video of the actual fall that I know of. Do you mean the video of the step grandfather putting her to the window then letting her go / losing her?

Yes that's what I meant, sorry! I did find it on the Daily Mail, thank you! What a terrible tragedy. I can't understand what Anello was thinking, I know it's the DM but this excerpt taken from the article:

"The filing says Anello lifted Chloe up so she could bang on the glass as she loved to do at her older brother's ice hockey games, unaware they were leaning towards thin air.

She slipped from his grasp and tumbled to her death through the only open pane 'among dozens,' it alleges."

Who the f*ck purposely puts a baby in front of a glass window so that she can bang on it?! Does he not realize that the safety "glass" at hockey games might not be the same type of "glass" on a normal window? Could he really be that stupid? I probably better not even read anything more about this case, I'm already so irritated .

 

[neesaki]

Grandfather cries as he recounts toddler falling to her death from a cruise ship - CNN

"The video shown to us was not in real time," correspondent David Begnaud said. The family attorney "says the video that he showed us was the same format he received from prosecutors," Begnaud added.
Noting a discrepancy in how long Anello was holding Chloe, Begnaud said, "the grandfather actually looks out the window for about eight seconds. He reaches down, he picks Chloe up, and he holds her over the railing for nearly 25 seconds."
In a statement to CBS News, Winkleman said, "any variation in time likely has to do with software issues. Most importantly, whether it was 5, 10, or 30 seconds does nothing to change the fact that Sam reasonably believed the window was closed. "

I believe that either Winkleman was given an edited copy of the video, or CBS was. Thus the time difference. I also don’t believe that CBS saw the video that was released afterwards by PR Comay. If they did see that one, they are bald faced liars. Because it shows something different than they described.

 

[neesaki]

Yes that's what I meant, sorry! I did find it on the Daily Mail, thank you! What a terrible tragedy. I can't understand what Anello was thinking, I know it's the DM but this excerpt taken from the article:

"The filing says Anello lifted Chloe up so she could bang on the glass as she loved to do at her older brother's ice hockey games, unaware they were leaning towards thin air.

She slipped from his grasp and tumbled to her death through the only open pane 'among dozens,' it alleges."

Who the f*ck purposely puts a baby in front of a glass window so that she can bang on it?! Does he not realize that the safety "glass" at hockey games might not be the same type of "glass" on a normal window? Could he really be that stupid? I probably better not even read anything more about this case, I'm already so irritated .

Here’s a link to the full video

https://video-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...=df20b5f88cf2d5e59987f67876b9c5fa&oe=5E66D171

 

[neesaki]

Yes that's what I meant, sorry! I did find it on the Daily Mail, thank you! What a terrible tragedy. I can't understand what Anello was thinking, I know it's the DM but this excerpt taken from the article:

"The filing says Anello lifted Chloe up so she could bang on the glass as she loved to do at her older brother's ice hockey games, unaware they were leaning towards thin air.

She slipped from his grasp and tumbled to her death through the only open pane 'among dozens,' it alleges."

Who the f*ck purposely puts a baby in front of a glass window so that she can bang on it?! Does he not realize that the safety "glass" at hockey games might not be the same type of "glass" on a normal window? Could he really be that stupid? I probably better not even read anything more about this case, I'm already so irritated .

You voiced my sentiments exactly. Believe you me, most of us if not all here are on the same page with you.
And Welcome to our baby Chloe’s thread, cobalt sky.

 

[LietKynes]

If the parents didn't want the video released to protect their son -- they had only to refrain from the lawsuit and be willing to speak to PR authorities.
I think after viewing the footage and already knowing who was watching Chloe-- they knew the truth from the beginning.

The video was leaked possibly by the PR media but without the parents attacking RCCL and placing all of the blame on them --the video might have stayed solely with RCCL and not shown to anyone else.

 

[SouthAussie]

snipped for focus

The way it appears now, Chloe will be remembered as the toddler who had a lawyer (Winkleman) and possibly others who wanted to get rich off her dying. Instead of teaching people the risks involved when certain types like S.A. do not think before they act.
Instead of a small life recklessly snuffed out before it barely began.
That is the true tragedy.

What --would giving up the lawsuit hurt the parents ?
Money won't bring her back and the ongoing struggle for money is insulting to Chloe's legacy.
Where is the concern for Chloe who deserves the full truth to come out and be told ?
All of this time and still no admittance of fault and a forthcoming apology.

She is the victim and in a lesser sense so is RCCL.
And not S.A. who by his own words; 'thought there was glass'/ 'Chloe wanted to be lifted up to bang on the glass'/'is colorblind'/'thought the window was closed except for the hidden hole in the wall of glass'/ take your pick, as there are more excuses.
That last bolded bit is not directed at anyone in particular-- it's a general observation.

This was entirely preventable and a waste of a young life for no reason ; and no one seems to care as long as grandpa doesn't face consequences and the lawsuit is successful so that people can tell themselves it's RCCL's fault.
Wrong on so many levels.

It is also a terrible way to teach Chloe's sibling to (not) accept responsibility for your own actions. imo

 

[Safeguard]

This was entirely preventable and a waste of a young life for no reason ; and no one seems to care as long as grandpa doesn't face consequences and the lawsuit is successful so that people can tell themselves it's RCCL's fault.
Wrong on so many levels.

Nice post rs/bbm.

The entire world seems to care. As I've posted before, I think the fam is Temporarily Insane, (as I'm sure I would also be were I in their painful shoes) and Winkleman is a vulture.

I'm sure the family loved this little girl, and I have already made a number of posts on possible grief issues clouding judgement. Who would be thinking straight after a such a horrible shock and loss. I can not claim to understand their thought process, but I do believe they loved Chloe and may very well have regrets about their own confusion and the way they handled things.

 

[Chikkamma]

Yes that's what I meant, sorry! I did find it on the Daily Mail, thank you! What a terrible tragedy. I can't understand what Anello was thinking, I know it's the DM but this excerpt taken from the article:

"The filing says Anello lifted Chloe up so she could bang on the glass as she loved to do at her older brother's ice hockey games, unaware they were leaning towards thin air.

She slipped from his grasp and tumbled to her death through the only open pane 'among dozens,' it alleges."

Who the f*ck purposely puts a baby in front of a glass window so that she can bang on it?! Does he not realize that the safety "glass" at hockey games might not be the same type of "glass" on a normal window? Could he really be that stupid? I probably better not even read anything more about this case, I'm already so irritated .

Good quality video from the original leaked footage on La Comay:

https://video.fymy1-1.fna.fbcdn.net...=36a5d62be897695f9c460d361b6875cf&oe=5E66D171

 

[LietKynes]

Nice post rs/bbm.

The entire world seems to care. As I've posted before, I think the fam is Temporarily Insane, (as I'm sure I would also be were I in their painful shoes) and Winkleman is a vulture.

I'm sure the family loved this little girl, and I have already made a number of posts on possible grief issues clouding judgement. Who would be thinking straight after a such a horrible shock and loss. I can not claim to understand their thought process, but I do believe they loved Chloe and may very well have regrets about their own confusion and the way they handled things.

bbm

first bolded : I don't disagree w/you at all ,there. The world does care !
I care. You care.
But we are not the family of Chloe; just strangers to this sad scenario that's unfolded.
Maybe that's why some are concerned as it looks very bad and unnatural ?

second bolded : Totally agree. How does he sleep at night ?

 

[Safeguard]

I believe that either Winkleman was given an edited copy of the video, or CBS was. Thus the time difference. I also don’t believe that CBS saw the video that was released afterwards by PR Comay. If they did see that one, they are bald faced liars. Because it shows something different than they described.

I think Winkleman had the video edited to mislead people into believing his phoney version of events and then he purposely released it to select news media.

 

[neesaki]

I think Winkleman had the video edited to mislead people into believing his phoney version of events and then he purposely released it to select news media.

I think you’re right.

 

[cobalt sky]

Good quality video from the original leaked footage on La Comay:

https://video.fymy1-1.fna.fbcdn.net...=36a5d62be897695f9c460d361b6875cf&oe=5E66D171

Thank you so much for this!!! I'm baffled, starting at about 9:35 in the video, he walks over to the window and it appears that he actually sticks his entire upper body through the window to look down below! Or am I seeing things? Sorry I know this has already probably been discussed...I'm just shocked because my eyes aren't the best and in the lesser quality DM video it did not appear that he did this. ???

 

[cobalt sky]

You voiced my sentiments exactly. Believe you me, most of us if not all here are on the same page with you.
And Welcome to our baby Chloe’s thread, cobalt sky.

Thank you very much!!!! <3