IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

[oviedo]

This is the second video that is posted right? CBS had the story this morning

 

[Chikkamma]

I think RCCL will have attorneys who are very experienced at making that distinction.

They have defended the corporation from children dying in swimming pools and falling off balconies, and drunk people falling off the decks into the water.

And they have to defend themselves while also questioning the surviving family members on the stand. So they have to ask a grieving wife or mother how much their deceased loved one drank that night, and if they were sitting on the railing or purposely jumping off the deck.

It is a very hard job, to not 'attack' the grieving witnesses and turn off the jury, but to still get to the truth about the circumstances.

So I think this family might be surprised at how experienced and skilful this defense team will be.

They will use use ALL of these public statements and media interviews AGAINST grandpa because of the inconsistencies.

And the holes that we see in his stories---- the defense team will drive a truck through them.

They will have power point presentations showing how impossible it would be for that sweet baby to fall out that window if it happened the way he tries to explain it. She would fall down inside of the ship if it was as he described, with her sitting on the guard rail and falling down.

She had to be pushed forward, out of the open window ledge, to end up on the pavement. That will be clear to the jury. And color blindness will not save him in that case. Even if there was a window there, if he had set her on the guard rail, then pushed himself forward, she would have been pushed into the glass, and still been injured, considering how fragile she was, compared to him.

RCCL is not prosecuting this case though. From my understanding, the Puerto Rican government is, and I doubt their resources will be as plentiful as RCCL.

 

[Gardenista]

Video from this morning

CBS This Morning on Twitter

 

[Chikkamma]

...

 

[CocoChanel]

MOD NOTE:

AT THIS TIME THERE IS NO SUBSTANTIATION THAT THE VIDEO BEING CURRENTLY DISCUSSED IS ACTUALLY A VIDEO OF THE INCIDENT. IT WAS POSTED IN A REPLY AS FAR AS I CAN TELL. UNLESS THERE IS SOME VERIFICATION OF THE SOURCE WE CANNOT DISCUSS IT HERE AS IT IS CONSIDERED RUMOR WITHOUT SUBSTANTIATION WHICH IS A VIOLATION OF TOS.

Faithfully,
CocoChanel
Moderator
Websleuths

 

[Gardenista]

MOD NOTE:

AT THIS TIME THERE IS NO SUBSTANTIATION THAT THE VIDEO BEING CURRENTLY DISCUSSED IS ACTUALLY A VIDEO OF THE INCIDENT. IT WAS POSTED IN A REPLY AS FAR AS I CAN TELL. UNLESS THERE IS SOME VERIFICATION OF THE SOURCE WE CANNOT DISCUSS IT HERE AS IT IS CONSIDERED RUMOR WITHOUT SUBSTANTIATION WHICH IS A VIOLATION OF TOS.

Faithfully,
CocoChanel
Moderator
Websleuths

The CBS news guy verifies it in a couple of places on his twitter

 

[oviedo]

MOD NOTE:

AT THIS TIME THERE IS NO SUBSTANTIATION THAT THE VIDEO BEING CURRENTLY DISCUSSED IS ACTUALLY A VIDEO OF THE INCIDENT. IT WAS POSTED IN A REPLY AS FAR AS I CAN TELL. UNLESS THERE IS SOME VERIFICATION OF THE SOURCE WE CANNOT DISCUSS IT HERE AS IT IS CONSIDERED RUMOR WITHOUT SUBSTANTIATION WHICH IS A VIOLATION OF TOS.

Faithfully,
CocoChanel
Moderator
Websleuths

I've heard from many of you, tonight, about the television program in Puerto Rico which aired the surveillance video showing the final moments of little Chloe Wiegand's life before her grandfather dropped her from a cruise ship window in Puerto Rico. Know this...

David Begnaud on Twitter

David Begnaud‏Verified account @DavidBegnaud
To he clear: we were not given the video; we were only allowed to view it so that we could see for ourselves what happened. Based on what I saw I reported. I don't have a copy of the video. It has since been linked to an outlet in Puerto Rico.

 

[Chikkamma]

MOD NOTE:

AT THIS TIME THERE IS NO SUBSTANTIATION THAT THE VIDEO BEING CURRENuTLY DISCUSSED IS ACTUALLY A VIDEO OF THE INCIDENT. IT WAS POSTED IN A REPLY AS FAR AS I CAN TELL. UNLESS THERE IS SOME VERIFICATION OF THE SOURCE WE CANNOT DISCUSS IT HERE AS IT IS CONSIDERED RUMOR WITHOUT SUBSTANTIATION WHICH IS A VIOLATION OF TOS.

Faithfully,
CocoChanel
Moderator
Websleuths

It has been aired on a legitimate television station in Puerto Rico. They substantiate the video. David Begnaud of CBS also verified that it is the same video he was shown by Winkleman.

La Comay - MEGA TV
David Begnaud (@DavidBegnaud) on Twitter

 

[CocoChanel]

AT THIS TIME, CONTINUED DISCUSSION OF THE QUESTIONABLE VIDEO IS AT RISK OF LOSING POSTING PRIVILEGES. IF WE LEARN THE SOURCE OF THE VIDEO IS VERIFIED IN MSM, THAT MAY CHANGE. UNTIL THEN, PLEASE KEEP THIS WARNING IN MIND AS YOU POST.

CocoChanel
Moderator

 

[Seattle1]

I’ve never been on a cruise so all of my information/knowledge comes from other sources. (Btw= my coworkers who have cruised ALL sympathize with family and say they deserve to win $ for cruise ship negligence. I’m shocked and don’t agree at all, but have never been one one, so can’t really argue.).

I am speechless after seeing the picture posted last night by our WS member on her cruise right now. The space between the window and the rail? Was it measured? How could a child fall outside if hey were on the ledge without being pushed or nudged? Now in no way do I think SA intentionally pushed her out, so I’m confused. Certainly she wasn’t on the WINDOW sill?

I've only seen the guard rail/barrier and the open window in photographs.

It appears to me that the guard rail is about 4' high and the window is at least a foot away from the railing. The guard rail clearly prevents an adult from approaching the the window and one would have to lean far forward to open the window.

I don't think the grandfather could reach the window if he was standing at the railing holding the child but if he let the child lean forward from her vantage point sitting on the barrier then I think the toddler could fall further forward than the grandfather's reach. Even if the window was closed, I really think Chloe would have fallen on her head from the railing by leaning forward.

What in world was SA thinking when he placed this precious child on top of the barrier. His actions are the best definition of negligence.

MOO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Does it say on SA's driver's license that he's CB? If not, maybe it should. JMOO

 

[sl222]

Attorney says grandfather of Granger toddler who fell from ship is not interested in plea deal
Picture of the two at link.

Not interested in a plea deal. The decisions here are getting predictable now. I hoped he would go with a plea, but the circus will continue. Expect more media. And so much for Chloe's legacy or the family's legacy for that matter. They may be surrounded by support in their community of friends to continue this fight, but anyone who really looks at the facts of the case thinks this was negligence. And now this is only going to get worse when more evidence comes out, I bet.

 

[lonetraveler]

I clicked on the link and the headline actually says:
Prosecutors offer plea deal to grandfather accused of dropping toddler to her death from cruise ship, sparing him jail if he accepts and pleads guilty
Grandfather accused of dropping toddler to her death from will try to prove his color blindness | Daily Mail Online
From the article:

• Prosecutors offered him a plea deal on Tuesday, which he would have to admit guilt to receive no jail time, minimum probation and minimum supervision
• Anello has said he didn't realize the window Chloe 'slipped' through was open
• He is reportedly considering the plea deal but is leaning towards rejecting it and taking his case to trial
• Last month, Anello claimed he didn't realize there wasn't any glass in the window pane because he is colorblind
• His lawyers said on Tuesday they plan to present Anello's medical records and evidence on his health status, also indicating they would want a trial by jury
• DailyMail.com previously revealed the last photo of Chloe moments before her death, standing beside a kids' splash pool wearing a pink swimming costume
• Footage of the tragedy seen by DailyMail.com shows the moment Chloe fell, with Anello slumping to his knees and her mother recoiling in shock and collapsing

Why would SA decline the plea deal? The only thing that comes to mind is that it could impact the civil suit. Chloe's mom is/was a prosecutor and knows that such a plea would be for sparing SA jail time and not necessarily an admission of guilt within the family.

So... is SA being encouraged to go to trial? The colorblind stuff is only going to take him so far. Is he and the family willing to take the gamble?

Also, David Begnaud on Twitter

He would be totally crazy not to accept the plea deal and not spend any time in prison. Is he willing to spend the three years in prison as "punishment" for his actions resulting in Chloe's death? What a situation!

 

[lonetraveler]

I

I agree.

I read a bunch on it while waiting at the DMV. From what I gather, the issue is being able to distinguish various colours from each other.

So if he wanted to say he couldn't tell green windows from red windows, or yellow from blue---then YES, he has a good defense.

But open windows are CLEAR---and as you say, more brightly lit, and there would be a breeze and strong smell of sea , most likely.

So I don't see how color blindness is going to save him.

"Color blindness story" isn't going to work. There are descriptions of SA leaning over to look out of the window prior to picking up Chloe. He had to stick his head partially out of the window to look down on the dock. JMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

"Color blindness story" isn't going to work. There are descriptions of SA leaning over to look out of the window prior to picking up Chloe. He had to stick his head partially out of the window to look down on the dock. JMO

SA is employing the same arrogance and stubbornness regarding the plea deal that he's done with multiple seatbelt violations. He doesn't think rules apply to him and deliberately defies them. SA thinks that he will get away with dropping Chloe from the ship just like he gets away with not wearing a seatbelt. Good luck with that!

 

[sl222]

SA is employing the same arrogance and stubbornness regarding the plea deal that he's done with multiple seatbelt violations. He doesn't think rules apply to him and deliberately defies them. SA thinks that he will get away with dropping Chloe from the ship just like he gets away with not wearing a seatbelt. Good luck with that!

He's worse than this though. We've allowed for some benefit of the doubt about him being reckless to a certain extent and made a horrible mistake and I still think all that's true. BUT. He's also bald-faced liar. IMO.

 

[Montrealaise]

I’ve never been on a cruise so all of my information/knowledge comes from other sources. (Btw= my coworkers who have cruised ALL sympathize with family and say they deserve to win $ for cruise ship negligence. I’m shocked and don’t agree at all, but have never been one one, so can’t really argue.).

I am speechless after seeing the picture posted last night by our WS member on her cruise right now. The space between the window and the rail? Was it measured? How could a child fall outside if hey were on the ledge without being pushed or nudged? Now in no way do I think SA intentionally pushed her out, so I’m confused. Certainly she wasn’t on the WINDOW sill?

That's what I think - that he sat her on the window sill and not the railing. If the prosecutors can show that, and also show the jurors just how perilous that is, a window sill eleven stories above the concrete pier, then I don't see how the jury can acquit him, no matter how pitiful he seems.

 

[sl222]

He's worse than this though. We've allowed for some benefit of the doubt about him being reckless to a certain extent and made a horrible mistake and I still think all that's true. BUT. He's also bald-faced liar. IMO.

A liar is the best interpretation. It's still way too generous. IMO.

 

[Kindred]

I've been lurking and distracted by another case (the two kids in PA. It's the next county over from me and has had been pretty distracted) but I haven't forgotten about this one.

But the recent articles about the refusal for a plea have me so angry. Especially this line from this article:

Grandfather of child who plunged to death from cruise ship doesn't want plea deal

"Anello’s defense told the court that they will be presenting experts that will analyze the scene and his medical records will be provided as well as testimony from his doctor. The defense is expected to provide the names of experts they plan to call to the court on Jan. 17."

I'm really damn curious if they're pulling in experts for the stupid colorblind argument. Because being colorblind DOES NOT mean that he wouldn't be able to see the tint on the windows. It means he wouldn't be able to see the COLOR OF THE TINT on the windows. They would still appear darkened and gray compared to the open window, he just wouldn't be able to see any of the blue/green color to it. Which means he should have been extra curious why some of them were dark and some of them were not. It immediately begs the question of why he didn't check first instead of just assuming all the windows were closed when they were clearly different in some way.

So is it he's colorblind, or are they now going to try and claim something new that is going to make you wonder why the family even bothered to trust a child with him in the first place?

 

[Chikkamma]

So David Begnaud of CBS is saying that SA’s defense attorney now states that SA did not have any drinks on the ship and that his key card (used to make purchases onboard) had not even been swiped to purchase a bottle of water yet.

Why wait this long to say that SA had ZERO drinks onboard (vs. the vague “Sam is not a drinker”)? Why refuse the breathalyzer?

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