IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[SouthAussie]

I think Winkleman had the video edited to mislead people into believing his phoney version of events and then he purposely released it to select news media.

It is a bit confusing though. Which video was released first? The one shown by Winkleman or the one shown on PR TV?


Dec 18th:
In a statement, the Wiegand family said: "The family is shocked by the deplorable and disgraceful misconduct that led to the release of this footage.
The family's sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child. That motivation has not changed. The family publicly asks the Puerto Rican authorities, why was this footage released?
CCTV Of Little Girl's Cruise Ship Death Leaked

Dec 18th:
Editor's note: The Wiegand family's attorney allowed an IndyStar reporter and senior editor to review the Royal Caribbean surveillance footage that shows toddler Chloe Wiegand's fall. IndyStar has not obtained a copy of the video, nor is it being published on our platforms.
Chloe Wiegand death: Video viewed by IndyStar shows final moments before cruise ship fall

 

[Safeguard]

second bolded : Totally agree. How does he sleep at night ?

Winkleman is a predator. Psychopaths have no consciences they sleep just fine.

 

[neesaki]

Thank you so much for this!!! I'm baffled, starting at about 9:35 in the video, he walks over to the window and it appears that he actually sticks his entire upper body through the window to look down below! Or am I seeing things? Sorry I know this has already probably been discussed...I'm just shocked because my eyes aren't the best and in the lesser quality DM video it did not appear that he did this. ???

If you’re seeing things, then so am I. So, no, I don’t think you’re “seeing things”. Hope that makes sense.

 

[neesaki]

It is a bit confusing though. Which video was released first? The one shown by Winkleman or the one shown on PR TV?


In a statement, the Wiegand family said: "The family is shocked by the deplorable and disgraceful misconduct that led to the release of this footage.
The family's sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child. That motivation has not changed. The family publicly asks the Puerto Rican authorities, why was this footage released?
CCTV Of Little Girl's Cruise Ship Death Leaked

I remember the one released to CBS was several days before the Comay one was released. Just from what I recall.

 

[neesaki]

Double post

 

[Safeguard]

I remember the one released to CBS was several days before the Comay one was released. Just from what I recall.

Absolutely right. Winkleman allowed the news personel to view the video.

And thats important! They were not allowed to air it and imo there were a few strategic reasons for that :

#1: The public would have picked it apart as tampered with in a NY minute.

#2: They could still hold off on the truth of SA's guilt in the eyes of the public, and influence the trial.

#3: They could still use the specious lie about not wanting to traumatize Chloes brother to keep the original video from circulating.

(My heart really breaks for the brother btw! His saying he would have jumped out and saved her will be the thing I remember forever about this case).

 

[neesaki]

Absolutely right. Winkleman allowed the news personel to view the video.

And thats important! They were not allowed to air it and imo there were a few strategic reasons for that :

#1: The public would have picked it apart as tampered with in a NY minute.

#2: They could still hold off on the truth of SA's guilt in the eyes of the public, and influence the trial.

#3: They could ask use the specious lie about mot wanting to traumatize Chloes brother to keep the original video from circulating.

(My heart really breaks for the brother btw! His saying he would have jumped out and saved her will be the thing I remember forever about this case).

So, he edited it. Isn’t that unethical? Should be illegal but I doubt it is. And from what I’ve learned about him, unethical may not be in his vocabulary . IYKWIM

 

[SouthAussie]

Absolutely right. Winkleman allowed the news personel to view the video.

And thats important! They were not allowed to air it and imo there were a few strategic reasons for that :

#1: The public would have picked it apart as tampered with in a NY minute.

#2: They could still hold off on the truth of SA's guilt in the eyes of the public, and influence the trial.

#3: They could still use the specious lie about not wanting to traumatize Chloes brother to keep the original video from circulating.

(My heart really breaks for the brother btw! His saying he would have jumped out and saved her will be the thing I remember forever about this case).

I agree that Winkleman is a willing conduit for these misrepresentations. And I also see an intelligent mother and prosecutor, and an intelligent father and police officer, allowing/authorising these public misrepresentations. I am not seeing Winkleman in this on his own, and I am not seeing him manipulating the family.

They could be pursuing a lawsuit quietly if they so wished, but for some reason they have decided to make this a trial by media. Why is that, I wonder.

Maybe they know they have a very weak case/lawsuit, and are trying to ramp up a sympathetic jury?

 

[Safeguard]

So, he edited it. Isn’t that unethical? Should be illegal but I doubt it is. And from what I’ve learned about him, unethical may not be in his vocabulary . IYKWIM

Really. Discusting! And his poor excuse when he was busted, "any discrepancy must be a software issue"!

No programer in the world would buy that doublespeak.

 

[Safeguard]

I agree that Winkleman is a willing conduit for these misrepresentations. And I also see an intelligent mother and prosecutor, and an intelligent father and police officer, allowing/authorising these public misrepresentations. I am not seeing Winkleman in this on his own, and I am not seeing him manipulating the family.

They could be pursuing a lawsuit quietly if they so wished, but for some reason they have decided to make this a trial by media. Why is that, I wonder.

Intelligence has nothing to do with Shock induced psychosis.

(When people experience psychosis they might see or hear things that aren’t there. They may believe things that aren’t true. It’s like “having a nightmare while you’re awake.).

 

[SouthAussie]

Intelligence has nothing to do with Shock induced psychosis.

Somehow I doubt that they all have shock induced psychosis. Heavy grieving, yes. Broken hearts, yes. But they certainly have been speaking eloquently in their recent media appearances.

It has been 5 months now since the shocking tragedy. They would have passed through a couple of the 5 stages of grief by now ... unless they are finding themselves stuck in the 2nd stage - anger - for a while. Everyone grieves at their own pace.

 

[Safeguard]

Somehow I doubt that they all have shock induced psychosis. Heavy grieving, yes. Broken hearts, yes. But they certainly have been speaking eloquently in their media appearances.

So they can speak well. But are they acting rationaly? Some of the most eloquent people I've ever met are certifiable.

 

[SouthAussie]

So they can speak well. But are they acting rationaly? Some of the most eloquent people I've ever met are certifiable.

Yes, I believe they are acting according to their own rationale. I do not believe they are being manipulated. If they were, I think some good friends/family/fellow officers would set them straight and protect them.

 

[Safeguard]

It has been 5 months now since the shocking tragedy. They would have passed through a couple of the 5 stages of grief by now ... unless they are finding themselves stuck in stage 2-anger for a while

The stages of grief are not linear. People can circle back many times, skip stages, or, yes get stuck, but five months is not long enough to process this enormityi imo.

 

[Safeguard]

Yes, I believe they are acting according to their own rationale. I do not believe they are being manipulated. If they were, I think some good friends/family/fellow officers would set them straight and protect them.

Maybe your right. Even if they are acting of their own accord, still no family or friends seem to be speaking up. Just we, who don't really know them...

But it's late, and I need sleep! Its been a pleasure posting with you as always!

Puzzling case to be sure, I will never understand SA's inexplicable actions that caused Chloe's death, perhaps her family feels the same and in trying to make sense of it simply can't accept what seems impossible. I wish I knew.

 

[Only4Justice]

Good and sad discussion here.

One thing I have kept thinking is, “Chloe asked to bang on the glass?” This has always bothered me. How verbal would she have been at 18mo? One of my sons didn’t speak much until the age of 3 and there’s nothing developmentally wrong with him. (He’s a grown man now)

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Good and sad discussion here.

One thing I have kept thinking is, “Chloe asked to bang on the glass?” This has always bothered me. How verbal would she have been at 18mo? One of my sons didn’t speak much until the age of 3 and there’s nothing developmentally wrong with him. (He’s a grown man now)

IMHO any parent or caregiver who encourages their child to "bang on glass" should be reported to CPS. Even just standing by the glass at a venue can result in disaster, as pucks have been known to shatter that glass! I have that info straight from my DH who is a rabid hockey fan and has been around the country to many many games. I cannot believe the whole family was on board with that dangerous, senseless little pastime. That right there would almost seem like a setup for a future injury and/or lawsuit. Almost. Plus, I did some Googling around...Hockey rules reinforced: Don't bang on the glass (VIDEO)
Glass Bangers: True Fans or Morons? | Illegal Curve Hockey

 

[Only4Justice]

IMHO any parent or caregiver who encourages their child to "bang on glass" should be reported to CPS. Even just standing by the glass at a venue can result in disaster, as pucks have been known to shatter that glass! I have that info straight from my DH who is a rabid hockey fan and has been around the country to many many games. I cannot believe the whole family was on board with that dangerous, senseless little pastime. That right there would almost seem like a setup for a future injury and/or lawsuit. Almost. Plus, I did some Googling around...Hockey rules reinforced: Don't bang on the glass (VIDEO)
Glass Bangers: True Fans or Morons? | Illegal Curve Hockey

I completely agree! Any child should be DISCOURAGED from banging on glass! smdh

 

[mickey2942]

I completely agree! Any child should be DISCOURAGED from banging on glass! smdh

And any discussion about that particular issue, makes absolutely no sense, after watching the video, where SA sticks half his body outside an open window, and lifts Chloe over a 48 inch guard rail, and 6 inches or more outside of an OPEN WINDOW, where there is definitely NO GLASS to bang on anyways. Geez, the entire deck was surrounded by a glass enclosure Chloe could have banged away at...at her level, or even when lifted up.

SA picked the only open window on the entire deck area, from the video evidence to put Chloe outside...so, that "explanation" is zero sum logic.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

And any discussion about that particular issue, makes absolutely no sense, after watching the video, where SA sticks half his body outside an open window, and lifts Chloe over a 48 inch guard rail, and 6 inches or more outside of an OPEN WINDOW, where there is definitely NO GLASS to bang on anyways. Geez, the entire deck was surrounded by a glass enclosure Chloe could have banged away at...at her level, or even when lifted up.

SA picked the only open window on the entire deck area, from the video evidence to put Chloe outside...so, that "explanation" is zero sum logic.

That "explanation" is such crap. "“I bent down by her. We always, like, whenever you’re at hockey games, we would bang on the glass, and it was fun, you know,” Anello said in an exclusive interview with CBS News. “So, when I knelt down to be with her at that level, I couldn’t reach the glass really, only with my fingertips so I knew she couldn’t. So that’s when I decided I’d pick her up. So, I was trying to stand her on the railing, and it happened in seconds.”
‘It’s like the glass disappeared’: Grandfather recounts toddler falling to her death from cruise ship I hope they pick apart each and every senseless, contradictory, changed and lying statement he has made in the court case.