IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[they'll get you]

IMHO there are many layers to this situation and the whole ugly truth has yet to come out, but it seems to be getting there, thanks to whoever leaked the La Comay video we have all been discussing. Hopefully LE can get SA to crack and tell the truth, or someone can and blow this whole thing out of the water once and for all.

I think it was puerto rico who released that footage to La Comay.
As An Aussie if I wanted to release sensitive footage like that I would go to an English speaking media outlet and I imagine the same for an American or Englishman.

 

[they'll get you]

Grandpa needed his own "watcher"

Grandpa needs his own straight-jacket.

 

[they'll get you]

(CNN)Video appears to show the moment Chloe Wiegand fell from her grandfather's arms to her death aboard a Royal Caribbean cruise ship in July.

Chloe, 18 months old, was playing on a Royal Caribbean ship docked in Puerto Rico with her grandfather, Salvatore "Sam" Anello, when she fell from an open glass window to her death.
The video appears to show Anello lean through an opening before picking up the toddler and holding her up to the opening.
It is unclear from the video how deep the opening is.

Chloe Wiegand's family condemns the release of a video that shows moments toddler fell to death from cruise ship - CNN

We are going to need some actual measurements here as to SA's height and arm reach, and if his head actually cleared the window ledge.

I think this video, for those who may not have seen it, at the 1:40 mark, might be helpful in determining that:

I hope this helps a bit.

 

[Chikkamma]

I think the bang on glass story was peddled around well before anyone saw the video.

But perhaps Chloe did think it was glass and lunged forward, and down she went. So SA went with “I thought there was glass...”

I think it might have gone better for him if he just said he remembered nothing.

I really do not think that Chloe thought there was glass there or saw the imaginary window. Toddlers explore their world with their mouths or hands. I think she was simply grasping at the open air out of curiosity and to explore.

Chloe’s eyesight was intact as far as we know. The default position when viewing an open space, even for a toddler, is NOT to assume that there is glass there. MOO.

 

[they'll get you]

He easily breeches the window opening with his arm, but could his head do the same while leaning over the railing?

His head is absolutely outside the ship in the La Comay video.

 

[al66pine]

Family. Posters? Chloe's?

....I have kind of the same problem with my 90 yr old Mom. Her granddaughter wanted Mom to go to her high school graduation ... needs assistance with climbing and walking).... Mom ....didn't want to go, but I got blamed for ruining my niece's graduation since I said Mom wouldn't attend. Needless to say, we haven't spoken to my brother or his family in 5 years, too many issues with them.

@jeena sbm Sorry about this situation in your family.
A 90 y/o grandmother w mobility difficulties passed on opportunity to struggle to climb h/s gym bleachers, up to nose-bleed rows, and sit on hard, narrow board to watch ant-size gr-dau walk across stage, shake hands, for several seconds (At least that's how I imagine it, could be wrong). Sooooo this occasion was ruined by relative not attending (one part of grad. occasion - the ceremony)? Sigh.
Then the flip side of ^,for some families, where an event is ruined by relative attending and being physically violent, drunk, drugged-up, loud, obnoxious, insulting, etc. Fortunately we do not have to be immersed w toxic (whatever reason) family members. As the saying goes, we get to pick our friends, not our relatives.

Circling back to the case at hand, do we know the long term or recent dynamics of Chloe's family, nuclear & extended? Not trying to analyze details, just raising the question rhetorically.

 

[Only4Justice]

I hope this helps a bit.
View attachment 222866

WOW just WOW

 

[justbreathe]

I am not sure that is Winkleman’s argument. The crux of the Wiegand’s lawsuit against RCCL (via Winkleman) is that there weren’t enough visual indications that the window was open, which led to SA “reasonably” believing that they were closed.

Just my opinion, but I think a “Well, he wouldn’t be able to dangle a baby out of the window if the windows couldn’t open” defense would be too silly even for Winkelman. That is why the contents of the lawsuit focuses on how RC did not provide enough indicators to let passengers know of this “hidden danger”. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I thought the crux of the lawsuit was that because RC didn’t follow non applicable building regulations and the windows opened, Chloe died. And if they did not open she would not have.

Winky seems to be trying 2 different tacts.

 

[MsFacetious]

I thought the crux of the lawsuit was that because RC didn’t follow non applicable building regulations and the windows opened, Chloe died. And if they did not open she would not have.

Winky seems to be trying 2 different tacts.

He's throwing everything he can at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[justbreathe]

I really do not think that Chloe thought there was glass there or saw the imaginary window. Toddlers explore their world with their mouths or hands. I think she was simply grasping at the open air out of curiosity and to explore.

Chloe’s eyesight was intact as far as we know. The default position when viewing an open space, even for a toddler, is NOT to assume that there is glass there. MOO.

This is correct. I have heard of people walking through glass because they did not realize the glass was there.

This is the first time I have ever heard of the reverse - they thought there was glass.

Because you are absolutely correct - the default human assumption to a clear view is NO glass. Not the opposite.

 

[MsFacetious]

This is correct. I have heard of people walking through glass because they did not realize the glass was there.

This is the first time I have ever heard of the reverse - they thought there was glass.

Because you are absolutely correct - the default human assumption to a clear view is NO glass. Not the opposite.

I've done that.... unfortunately I was running.

 

[Forever Young]

I think it was puerto rico who released that footage to La Comay.
As An Aussie if I wanted to release sensitive footage like that I would go to an English speaking media outlet and I imagine the same for an American or Englishman.

I read that La Comay, or the previous version of it, was canceled one time because of a controversial segment that caused many of their sponsors to pull their ads.

I thought perhaps that RCCL, the lawful owners of the videos, are the ones who leaked it, and La Comay ran it, knowing that it would go viral and in hopes of a future sponsorship.

Truthfully, I do not blame RCCL for fighting fire with fire, as they were not the first ones to make it known that a video of the incident existed.

I had never heard of La Comay before, but read that it is deeply ingrained in local culture, having had a long run of many years prior to coming back on TV after being gone for about 5 years.

I thought it was a very strange format until I read that La Comay (The Gossiper) represents the old lady who is the guardian of the truth.

Now I think that the old lady gossiper is a rather cool format for what is basically tabloid journalism.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, I created the graph myself in Excel (it self-created the Y axis, because my input was either 0 or 1). Created out of sarcasm for Winkleman's lawsuit complaint statement ......

"While some who are uninformed may initially characterize this type of incident as a “freak accident,” it is, in fact, quite common."
Complaint - Wiegand vs Royal Caribbean Cruises LTD - LMAW, PA

I have been unable to find one incident of a child falling overboard out of a cruise ship window. I have looked on a couple of cruise ship incident statistical websites and trawled the internet.

The child deaths I have found were drownings in pools, falling from balconies, falling downstairs. Have not found any falling from window wells.

 

[Forever Young]

This is correct. I have heard of people walking through glass because they did not realize the glass was there.

This is the first time I have ever heard of the reverse - they thought there was glass.

Because you are absolutely correct - the default human assumption to a clear view is NO glass. Not the opposite.

I thought the same thing.

 

[Safeguard]

I guess I imagine Winky has an image consultant/stylist on call. So how did this happen? I would have advised everyone to wear grays and blacks, no jewelry and minimal make-up, as they are in mourning. Just an odd choice at a gathered run by the lawyer trying to garner sympathy.

I don't know. I think she probably just dressed they way she always dresses.
Maybe her 'Mourning Wear' was at the cleaners. I doubt anything she wore would be acceptable to a lot of people.

 

[they'll get you]

There was no enclosed area. Ship flows from one area to another... kids run around crazy, especially on boarding day. EVERYONE is moving about, people are boarding, dropping luggage in cabins, go to eat, explore the ship, go check to see if luggage is delivered yet, get everything set up etc. Its a hectic day for many. I'm very curious as to exactly where everyone was. They had only been on ship 2 hours. Eating and drinking is the norm. They have the buffets set up and ready for guests. No more free drinks though, sadly. But everything is available right away and all you do is swipe a card.

So many things hit me right away with this case, but what sealed it for me was the obit. The over exaggerations of everything just was crazy. It seemed to be intended to be 'cute' i think, but was just creepy to me. Why was THAT gpa her BEST FRIEND. Wouldn't it be a bit more normal for the young boy to be besties with Grandpa? Maybe because he played with her more? Entertained her more? Boy had better relationship with other G-parents? Why straight to lawyer. Dad taking pics immediately show me he wanted to know what happened.... or was he planning a lawsuit that fast?

WHERE was everyone else? Did Chloe get fussy while eating so he took her out there to look at the bright colors in the kids water area? Its a stressful day and i do it ALL the time. I don't relax until we are finished with Muster and on our way. Lots of people are over excited for the cruise, tired from travelling, cranky from standing in lines etc.
If i were a betting girl (which i am) I'd say Chloe was all of these things and Gpa had his hands full. If only he'd have been honest from the start, we wouldn't have multiple threads and he wouldn't be facing charges at all. It would have been a horrible accident. HOWEVER, he seems to have something to hide. And money seems to be a motivator for someone in the family. JMO

1) The pool area is one big open plan but there are 4 exit points I’d say because of the air conditioning within the ship itself.
2) I didn’t see kids running around crazy and usually an adult would tell them to quit it. First day the older ones explored with others.
3) Before muster we don’t think the pools were open. I just asked my hubby’s thoughts & he agreed. At muster I didn’t not see any cold, wet children standing around for 30 mins.
4) After boarding, before the rooms are ready and the bags are at your room, people usually find a place to chill.

We always take a carryon bag for the important stuff as I’m sure Chloe’s mum did for bubby.

It’s the same for The Voyager, Explorer and The Ovation.

 

[Forever Young]

I don't know. I think she probably just dressed they way she always dresses.
Maybe her 'Mourning Wear' was at the cleaners. I doubt anything she wore would be acceptable to a lot of people.

I know that KW took some criticism for wearing red lipstick.

Some psychological theorists say you should wear blue to court, to show honesty. Gray would show neutrality. Red shows dominance - "don't mess with me."

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

This is correct. I have heard of people walking through glass because they did not realize the glass was there.

This is the first time I have ever heard of the reverse - they thought there was glass.

Because you are absolutely correct - the default human assumption to a clear view is NO glass. Not the opposite.

First time poster - True statement about people walking into glass. The landlord of the building I work in just finished redesigning the front entrance of our building with an all glass front. After 5 employees walked into the glass wall the first week after they removed the paper and tape, they had to stencil something just below eye level. We now have a pretty row of stars about 4 feet from the ground on the glass.

 

[Forever Young]

Here is another question I have wondered about. Was this the first cruise Anello and/or the Wiegands had ever been on?

 

[Safeguard]

I

I know that KW took some criticism for wearing red lipstick.

Some psychological theorists say you should wear blue to court, to show honesty. Gray would show neutrality. Red shows dominance - "don't mess with me."

know people hate her because of the lawsuit. But I just can't bring myself to pick her apart for every little thing.
Not right now anyway.