IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[bx2]

Ok, they pass through the cameras at 2:51 but she is falling face down and not blocking with hands. It took 1 year for this detail to come out. But think about it. How long would it take her to get up again, or for CR to pick her up. that could have gone on for several minutes. Yet, by just after 3:00am they were gone because of the wallet being found. It seems CR put Lauren on his back and made it to 5N. This would have cleared them from the lot and would take a couple minutes.

The falling down without hands part of the article is actually pretty unclear on the location. It is mentioned as happening before they arrived at 10th and College not after they left and were headed toward 5N. I don't know that its a major detail to get right because the fact it was happening at all paints the necessary picture, just a minor nitpick.

But then Why call JR when he lives next door?

This seems like the only logical decision. MB doesn't necessarily even know if JR is at home when he supposedly makes this call.

MB's story is false, and yes I agree that it's more likely he just wanted to distance himself from whatever was taking place. At this point I don't see him being involved in moving her body, but since is lying (even allowing his attorney to put that spin at first) about what happened he may know more. In order for him to lie by masking her condition, he is hiding that she was really bad off and that he did nothing to help her.
It appears to me, he just wanted to not be in that situation or responsible for her and found a way out of it.

You've been pretty adamant on this point, and I have to say that I don't get the insistence of him lying. You think because she was really messed up and falling down earlier means that she couldn't have asked him if he wanted to keep drinking? I'd go with maybe its unlikely, but have been around so many people that fit this messed up persona, yes even those that were bloody from not being able to walk or stand, and wanted to keep partying that I don't find any reason to not think it's completely plausible.

It's possible CR was holding these items. Perhaps when she fell face down, these items fell out of the wallet or wherever and CR picked them up but didn't see or bother with the rest.

What else can you make of this?

CR having possession of those items is an interesting thought, especially if he found them later and sought help to avoid looking guilty of something. It just seemed like an oddly placed statement is all I was saying. But by saying it, JR is semi-establishing a few things: he figured she had the means of getting back in her apartment and those cards would not be found amongst any of her other strewn about items. When participating in some of the searches, the leaders made it known that specific items of hers had been found, but never mentioned anything about what would clearly be a gigantic clue if found (a smallwood keycard).

 

[bx2]

It is the holes that matter, so keep poking. Did the cadaver dogs react at all at 5N? you say if they would aggressively pursuing POI's... but what do you call kicking down JR's door? I only found out about that this week!
My point is that what if they know she was dead at 5N, but could not conclude anything because of A) time that had lapsed and B) Clean up and possibly how quickly she had been removed.

Kicking down the doors at JR's is just rumor, and if I say so myself a pretty unlikely one. I think a search happened early on, but the metaphorical "kicking down the doors" is artificially leading. This was alluded to have happened well before the dogs were spotted at 5N and JW's. I also find it most likely that LE received cooperation from JW/JR for the searches (same with CR for vehicle search) and thus no need for any search warrant and probable cause findings.

 

[imkeylime]

It could be strategic that MB takes her to JR's at 3:30. This places her at 5N before the 3:38 witness account; perhaps in an attempt to discredit the witness or make us think it was not Lauren because Lauren was at CR/MB's.

Yes, they are placing her her at 5N so she can magically become all whole again.

Once they make her whole, she's on her own and they are safe.

Good thinking. This answers the question Blythe asked the other night: "Why would two people put her at 5 North if she wasn't?"

Taking another step back, CR could have left her in a panic or passed her off to the mystery man before returning to 5N.

 

[imkeylime]

Kicking down the doors at JR's is just rumor, and if I say so myself a pretty unlikely one. I think a search happened early on, but the metaphorical "kicking down the doors" is artificially leading. This was alluded to have happened well before the dogs were spotted at 5N and JW's. I also find it most likely that LE received cooperation from JW/JR for the searches (same with CR for vehicle search) and thus no need for any search warrant and probable cause findings.

I saw nothing about LE kicking down doors JR's, but they did force open two doors at SW when searching for the videotape of the confrontation between CR and ZO. Maybe the details are getting mixed up?

Given that LS was at JR's earlier, he'd have no reason to avoid a search unless she left (or he had) something incriminating.

 

[Jupiter812]

To me it was an alibi tweet. (if he is part of the crime/cover-up) Like look I'm just eating food like a normal day. I have also considered it was an "all clear" signal. Maybe once Lauren was taken away and that person(s) were now back in the vicinity, the others maybe waiting for that tweet before they started their "normal day" JAT Imo. Of course if he had no part in any of it then he was just tweeting to hear himself tweet.?

I agree and this has been my thinking all along as well. However, since the Spoon is a popular after-party eatery with this crowd and it serves Kosher (the corned beef hash has its following, trust me), it's not at all unreasonable that he would tweet if he were there. It's no different from the tweet he made when he was on a road trip high and bumping some tunes on his way to a concert several hours away. It's no different from his tweet about "playing with the house money" for some investment group project.

Lastly, yes, absolutely people do tweet just to see if anyone is out there; to see if anyone will respond.

 

[Jupiter812]

DB isn't a random Facebook friend at all. He and JR have a business together now. Check JR's Linked In profile. I highly doubt he was in Bloomington and just didn't happen to see JR.

Also, they went to the same private college prep boarding school in Bloomfield Hills: Cranbrook.

 

[Jupiter812]

Good thinking. This answers the question Blythe asked the other night: "Why would two people put her at 5 North if she wasn't?"

Taking another step back, CR could have left her in a panic or passed her off to the mystery man before returning to 5N.

Thanks for the second point. That was one of the last things I thought about last night and I had forgotten. Maybe mystery man took her to JRs or mystery man got JR involved. Of course then this begs the question why MB would insert himself. Gah! What a frustrating circuitous web this is.

 

[Ros]

I saw nothing about LE kicking down doors JR's, but they did force open two doors at SW when searching for the videotape of the confrontation between CR and ZO. Maybe the details are getting mixed up?

Given that LS was at JR's earlier, he'd have no reason to avoid a search unless she left (or he had) something incriminating.

According to the post (2011-06-07 21:49:34 -0400) on PT from a friend of JR's roommates

JR's apartment was searched by police the next day. If no one was there to let them in, they would have forced their way in.

Anyone know when JR went back to MI?

 

[imkeylime]

Thanks for the second point. That was one of the last things I thought about last night and I had forgotten. Maybe mystery man took her to JRs or mystery man got JR involved. Of course then this begs the question why MB would insert himself. Gah! What a frustrating circuitous web this is.

I had a night like that the night before ... Blythe's query (a good question) and the Hello Kitty stuff my daughter got for back to school gave me crazy sleep.

IMO, MB may be covering for CR. Some people are just loyal, for better or worse.

I doubt all the POIs knew then what they (and we) know now. Say CR dropped LS when trying to carry her, not being in great shape himself. He didn't know about her long QT syndrome. He may have not not known she took Klonopin with DR (allegedly). He may have thought he accidentally killed her (maybe he did?). Or maybe he simply couldn't carry her?

Yes, it's very circuitous and frustrating. I'm thinking that the mystery man scenario makes sense. Maybe the mystery man did get JR involved, thinking she'd taken something at JR's? But if she ODed/passed at 5N I'd think there'd be evidence of it. Which reminds me that her jacket was never accounted for.

 

[Jupiter812]

I had a night like that the night before ... Blythe's query (a good question) and the Hello Kitty stuff my daughter got for back to school gave me crazy sleep.

IMO, MB may be covering for CR. Some people are just loyal, for better or worse.

I doubt all the POIs knew then what they (and we) know now. Say CR dropped LS when trying to carry her, not being in great shape himself. He didn't know about her long QT syndrome. He may have not not known she took Klonopin with DR (allegedly). He may have thought he accidentally killed her (maybe he did?). Or maybe he simply couldn't carry her?

Yes, it's very circuitous and frustrating. I'm thinking that the mystery man scenario makes sense. Maybe the mystery man did get JR involved, thinking she'd taken something at JR's? But if she ODed/passed at 5N I'd think there'd be evidence of it. Which reminds me that her jacket was never accounted for.

Excellent. All good points. I think the route where CR drops her or leaves her is a viable route to explore. The unaccounted for jacket...hmm...she could have left it at JR's, CR's, Sports, etc. and its retrieval just didn't make it into MSM. But! its absence is spooky, for lack of a better word, because it is like an empty shell with no body.

 

[British]

I think one of the most important facts in this case is the 2 phone calls made from JR's phone at 4.15 AM. Assuming that it was LS calling, you would still have expected her to text (explaining in the text that it was her and not JR) instead of calling that time in the night (as college students do). The fact that calls were made shows that the intention was likely not to leave written record.

Now, one possibility about the phone calls from JR's phone at 4.15 am may be that she had passed out or was dead and someone (person X) who might have been more experienced with drugs had been called and was in that place for help. Maybe that person was interested to find out what drugs LS might have taken earlier in the evening, while making desperate attempts to revive her and asked JR to call the people who might have been earlier with LS that night, to find out.

Just another possibility....

 

[Blythe]

Good discussion. So I will ask;

What do you suppose the PsOI learned by 4:00 PM which they hadn't known/considered/realized at 3:40 AM?

Did additional knowledge/insight impact any of their "memories" or recall?

And did they use any of this information to effectively reconstruct the events of the evening to their legal advantage?

 

[Jupiter812]

I think one of the most important facts in this case is the 2 phone calls made from JR's phone at 4.15 AM. Assuming that it was LS calling, you would still have expected her to text (explaining in the text that it was her and not JR) instead of calling that time in the night (as college students do). The fact that calls were made shows that the intention was likely not to leave written record.

Now, one possibility about the phone calls from JR's phone at 4.15 am may be that she had passed out or was dead and someone (person X) who might have been more experienced with drugs had been called and was in that place for help. Maybe that person was interested to find out what drugs LS might have taken earlier in the evening, while making desperate attempts to revive her and asked JR to call the people who might have been earlier with LS that night, to find out.

Just another possibility....

If she couldn't distinguish b/w a cellphone and an iPod then how could she text?

JR claims he asked her to text him when she arrived as SW. She does not text him. What does he do? Apparently nada!

What is the point in him asking her to contact him if he doesn't do any follow up? I hope the PI's asked him this question because it's total CYA.

 

[friendsara]

There have been so many new posts here lately, and generally lots of activity over the last 1+ year, by people interested in justice and closure for a family they don't even know. I often check websleuths multiple times a day, not sure exactly what I'm hoping to find. I have often asked myself, and I want to ask you - why do you still follow this case? Why LS, why the Spierers, when there are a million other tragedies the world over?

I don't want to divert the conversation from theories and fact-checking. I was just thinking about how, if all of us were in a room together, I think we might be very different demographically - not necessarily people you would expect to be together in any normal circumstance. But we're "here" together, whether we post or not, many of us every day. Why?

 

[TobyWong*]

Based on what? What is the evidence that this guy was visiting JR? Just the fact that his was a facebook friend? Come on.

Just A Theory. Just my opinion based on everything I've read since the day Lauren was "disappeared". I'm sure there are a number of people who jr has been friends w/ for a long period of time that visit him. I wonder why no other name has been attached to jr.s phantom visitor?

 

[TobyWong*]

There have been so many new posts here lately, and generally lots of activity over the last 1+ year, by people interested in justice and closure for a family they don't even know. I often check websleuths multiple times a day, not sure exactly what I'm hoping to find. I have often asked myself, and I want to ask you - why do you still follow this case? Why LS, why the Spierers, when there are a million other tragedies the world over?

I don't want to divert the conversation from theories and fact-checking. I was just thinking about how, if all of us were in a room together, I think we might be very different demographically - not necessarily people you would expect to be together in any normal circumstance. But we're "here" together, whether we post or not, many of us every day. Why?

well besides my ocd??... I begin and end everyday checking on all "my cases" sometimes i keep multiple windows open day after day clicking refresh. I think I first clicked on her thread just cause she was the latest missing person but then realized how close jr.s parents live to my BIL and a little further to me. I know people in the area and have a pretty good grasp of the "type" of guy jr might be. Yes, I know it's wrong but it is what it is. And I don't like that "type" of guy.

I firmly believe these men witnessed Lauren pass and the only thing they thought was to cover for themselves. Prolly freaking out in the area behind jr.s place as Lauren lay dead or dying. They took the chance to acknowledge that she was w/ them or in their home but did'nt bother to take a chance at getting in trouble for their drug consumption and Lauren died because of that. I really don't think there was any kind of "intentional" assault, they were only intent on hiding their involvement. I think mb quickly ushered Lauren (prolly being carried by cr) to jr to get her out of his place, knowing she was in dire condition. I don't think they even cared enough to lay her on the couch as she passed, thats why I say they went out back. I do think jr placed those 2 calls so hoping anyone eles would be the one to step up and handle the human that was dying in front of them. IMO sorry if i went to far and more than you were asking. I just cannot stand that Lauren's (or any) family has to endure this kind of hell. Until they have children of their own, i don't think it will hit any of them, the ramifications of their actions. IMO.

 

[Ros]

If she couldn't distinguish b/w a cellphone and an iPod then how could she text?

JR claims he asked her to text him when she arrived as SW. She does not text him. What does he do? Apparently nada!

What is the point in him asking her to contact him if he doesn't do any follow up? I hope the PI's asked him this question because it's total CYA.

He knew she did not have a phone. How was she supposed to text him? Borrow a roommate's phone? Is phone borrowing in the middle of the night a common college student practice?

 

[elmorejames]

Is it all possible that MB could be the mystery man carrying LS over his shoulders to JR's at 3:38 AM that the woman reported to TG's blog?

 

[Ros]

There have been so many new posts here lately, and generally lots of activity over the last 1+ year, by people interested in justice and closure for a family they don't even know. I often check websleuths multiple times a day, not sure exactly what I'm hoping to find. I have often asked myself, and I want to ask you - why do you still follow this case? Why LS, why the Spierers, when there are a million other tragedies the world over?

I don't want to divert the conversation from theories and fact-checking. I was just thinking about how, if all of us were in a room together, I think we might be very different demographically - not necessarily people you would expect to be together in any normal circumstance. But we're "here" together, whether we post or not, many of us every day. Why?

A friend of mine, an IU alum, disappeared in Europe many years ago. There was nothing I could do in that situation (and Interpol never found anything either), but I still remember hearing the news that she had disappeared from the face of the Earth. So I feel compassion for and sort of a connection to Lauren's friends and family, even though I have never met them.

 

[LongTallTexan]

I appreciate so many theories but have trouble with the opposing count of facts...so I don't post much, but read all.

I don't want to divert the conversation from theories and fact-checking. I was just thinking about how, if all of us were in a room together, I think we might be very different demographically - not necessarily people you would expect to be together in any normal circumstance. But we're "here" together, whether we post or not, many of us every day. Why?

My answer to this is the whole situation...it was a perfect storm, created by some, enabled by other resulting in a very tragic ending. I have children, so I hope I learn something to help them prepare in their lives.

in unusual cases, unusual things happen.

Very important point. Unusual things happened, therefore our logic of what someone should have done/thought/not-done is seriously skewed.

JR was messed up too, 10 shots then to the bar? He may have sobered up, maybe not...we just don't know....which leads me to my point of view (not really a theory). Look at what we DON'T know; but that we should know. In other words, the info that we're fairly safe in assuming that LE has that we DO not have.....that would be intentional on their part to keep from the public/PsOI.

Some example:
-the second phone number called from JRs
-who else was on the videos in the alley, ZO, AB, JR, DB, Witness, etc.
-if the puke was LSs
-evidence of LS at 5N the second time that night
-if anyone else left Smallwood after 2:45
-how many texts JW sent to her phone and when
-what other JW alibis are there?
-phone records of HT, JW, ZO, JR, CR....I guarrantee they were all texting, tweeting throughout the night
.....this list goes on, but the LE is not asking the public or WS (they should) for help tells me that have a good idea of what happened, how it happened and who's responsible, but do not have a solid case. Much of what has come out recently they have known for a year +....

I do believe this will be solved and the facts will come out...likely due to the diligence and attention provided here. thanks.