IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[monkey222]

Yes, Chuz. Agree. So many players of that night in multiple venues. And less than a handful talks. Disparaging.

 

[CoolJ]

Anybody know where, in relation to Chuz's map the white truck was pictured? I am still hung up on that damn white truck. IMO it plays a part somehow even if just as a decoy by LE. Regardless I would like to see where it is on that map.

 

[UncleJohn]

Taking another look at the journey from Kilroys to 5N...

There are several 'documented' events/time stamps during that 45-60 minute period, but a lot of uncertainty about how they might fit together and about how what happened during that interval might have played out during the subsequent hour or so.

Several others have carefully enumerated what is 'known' to have happened when and where. I'm wondering WHY.

CR is said to have the hots for LS, and maybe that's reciprocal. Let's just say she's at least a little bit interested. But she's the long-term girlfriend of JW who is at the edge of CR's circle of friends, and JW is older and presumably has more status within that group and within their (disbanded) fraternity.

So CR and LS get together, get a buzz on (and maybe more...) at 5N, then head to the bar. While at the bar, LS's buzz goes over the top and she's kicked out. CR follows. I'd assume that he's pretty wasted as well. Now they're on the sidewalk outside the bar - where to go next? I'd assume that his inclination would be to get her to his place ... but they go to SW. Why? Maybe he's a gentleman and/or sees that she's too far gone and decides to take her home. Maybe there are party supplies to be had at her place or elsewhere in SW. Maybe there's a party there. Or, maybe SHE wants to go home - to go to bed, or to get some shoes, or to find her phone, or some other reason. Did he drive the decision at this point or did she? Why go to SW and not to 5N or to a party elsewhere? Was LS looking to continue at this point, or was she ready to quit?

Whatever the reason for going to SW, it seems to have been thwarted by the encounter with ZO and his group and CR getting punched. Why the punch? Was ZO looking for them? (I would assume that once LS and CR showed up at the bar together (if not before), texts would have been flying about JW's girl being out with another guy.) Or was it a random encounter? Did CR get punched because he was with LS or because he was acting lecherously toward her, or did he and ZO have a history of animosity, or did CR say or do something to piss off ZO?

So they leave SW. Were they leaving in haste and in fear, or just wandering off in search of Plan B? Was CR leading or LS? Or did they stop to confer and decide what to do next? Given the report about LS stumbling off the elevator, CR was probably leading the show at this point.

After leaving SW they evidently made their way to the north/south alley between College and Morton headed north - or did they walk north up College? Did they go out the front door of SW (onto College) or a back door (onto 9th)? If they were hoping to avoid observation, I would think they might have headed out a back door. But, assuming they were both pretty wasted, they probably used the habitual exit of whomever was in the lead. (Since CR was 'banned' from SW, he would be likely to know about all the back doors and be inclined to avoid the front lobby.)

Next stop was 10th and C. Did they plan to go there, or was it a thought that occurred as they passed by, or were they in need of help - any port in a storm? And did they go up the alley north of 10th and go around the north end of the building, or walk up the alley to 10th and turn right, or maybe pass 10th in the alley and then double back? Did they go to the front door and buzz up from the lobby or make a cell phone call from one of the back doors? Were they looking to connect with ZC or with one of her roommates or, maybe, someone else in the building? Did they try to contact anyone else in that building - or anyone else at all a that point? It seems that if they had a reason or a plan to get together with ZC that would be one thing - and they would have headed directly to the front door of that building and used the buzzer. But, if they were in distress and in need of help, that would have been a very different situation - and they might well have followed a different route and would have been more likely to call from the alley.

How about the audible collapse on the steps and the face plant? My memory from the PI video (many months ago - and I haven't looked at it recently) was that both incidents happened more-or-less sequentially. Did these happen near the front door - near the intersection of 10th and College (where there is no camera) - or in the alley? Or were they 2 separate incidents in different places? When did she drop her stuff in the alley? Seems that would be likely to happen during the face plant.

LOTS of questions and unknowns. I would hope that LE has asked and answered these questions and many more that have not occurred to me, and it would sure be nice if they would share their answers with us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My take is that things turned for the worse somewhere between SW and 5N at about 3am and that LS was not moving under her own power after that point. He/they tried to contact ZC for help. When that help was not forthcoming, and then when TG's mystery witness came upon them, he slung her over his shoulder, said everything was under control, and headed to 5N.

My $0.02,
- John

 

[Jacobite]

It's like Lauren Spierer just vanished into thin air after the last camera at 2:51 AM. She had dropped her gold key to the front door of Smallwood in the alley just north of 10th and College Village Apartments.
She goes off camera and the tracking dog lost her scent here. No more video. No fresher dog trail.
No cell pings from her. Only accounts from Mike and Jay.

 

[AbbeyR]

Just a small thing, but:

So CR and LS get together, get a buzz on (and maybe more...) at 5N, then head to the bar. While at the bar, LS's buzz goes over the top and she's kicked out. CR follows.

I don't think she was kicked out of Kilroy's. That story came from Gatto's witness who also said she was by herself (not with Corey) at the bar. This definitely wasn't true, and others have said the part about getting kicked out wasn't true either. Gatto also admitted here that this witness was not reliable. The lawsuit docs say that Lauren and Corey arrived together and left together.

 

[Jupiter812]

Just a small thing, but:


I don't think she was kicked out of Kilroy's. That story came from Gatto's witness who also said she was by herself (not with Corey) at the bar. This definitely wasn't true, and others have said the part about getting kicked out wasn't true either. Gatto also admitted here that this witness was not reliable. The lawsuit docs say that Lauren and Corey arrived together and left together.

This is not a small thing; furthermore, the getting a "buzz on" and the buzz going over the top is not accurate. In fact, she was going in the opposite direction, hypo- not hyper-.

 

[Chuz Life]

Taking another look at the journey from Kilroys to 5N...

There are several 'documented' events/time stamps during that 45-60 minute period, but a lot of uncertainty about how they might fit together and about how what happened during that interval might have played out during the subsequent hour or so.

Several others have carefully enumerated what is 'known' to have happened when and where. I'm wondering WHY.

<snip>

Whatever the reason for going to SW, it seems to have been thwarted by the encounter with ZO and his group and CR getting punched.

I agree.

Why the punch? Was ZO looking for them? (I would assume that once LS and CR showed up at the bar together (if not before), texts would have been flying about JW's girl being out with another guy.) Or was it a random encounter? Did CR get punched because he was with LS or because he was acting lecherously toward her, or did he and ZO have a history of animosity, or did CR say or do something to piss off ZO?

Many Good questions that the authorities should have investigated by now.

So they leave SW. Were they leaving in haste and in fear, or just wandering off in search of Plan B? Was CR leading or LS? Or did they stop to confer and decide what to do next? Given the report about LS stumbling off the elevator, CR was probably leading the show at this point.

Agree. (more good questions, BTW)

After leaving SW they evidently made their way to the north/south alley between College and Morton headed north - or did they walk north up College?

Most likely, they came North on College Ave. as indicated by the PI's.

Did they go out the front door of SW (onto College) or a back door (onto 9th)?

Again, the PI's say the video shows them leaving via the main entrance onto College.

If they were hoping to avoid observation, I would think they might have headed out a back door.

True, but they were already busted and seen together at Smallwood by many of their 'friends' at this point.

But, assuming they were both pretty wasted, they probably used the habitual exit of whomever was in the lead. (Since CR was 'banned' from SW, he would be likely to know about all the back doors and be inclined to avoid the front lobby.)

They were recorded entering and leaving via the main entrance - as indicated on my map.

Next stop was 10th and C. Did they plan to go there, or was it a thought that occurred as they passed by, or were they in need of help - any port in a storm?

More good questions.

And did they go up the alley north of 10th and go around the north end of the building, or walk up the alley to 10th and turn right, or maybe pass 10th in the alley and then double back?

The recorded videos and the PI's timeline answers some of that.

Did they go to the front door and buzz up from the lobby or make a cell phone call from one of the back doors?

According to the PI's they were "seen" on video trying to get Zoe to let them in or to at least answer her door.

Were they looking to connect with ZC or with one of her roommates or, maybe, someone else in the building? Did they try to contact anyone else in that building - or anyone else at all a that point? It seems that if they had a reason or a plan to get together with ZC that would be one thing - and they would have headed directly to the front door of that building and used the buzzer.

Good stuff to think about.

How about the audible collapse on the steps and the face plant? My memory from the PI video (many months ago - and I haven't looked at it recently) was that both incidents happened more-or-less sequentially. Did these happen near the front door - near the intersection of 10th and College (where there is no camera) - or in the alley?

Both.

Lauren fell multiple times.

She fell on the steps as the witness testified and she fell at least twice (caught on video) as they tried to walk north up the alley between the two complexes.

LOTS of questions and unknowns. I would hope that LE has asked and answered these questions and many more that have not occurred to me, and it would sure be nice if they would share their answers with us.

I hope I helped answer some of your questions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My take is that things turned for the worse somewhere between SW and 5N at about 3am and that LS was not moving under her own power after that point. He/they tried to contact ZC for help. When that help was not forthcoming, and then when TG's mystery witness came upon them, he slung her over his shoulder, said everything was under control, and headed to 5N.

This is very much inline with many of my own theories.

Good post!

 

[Jupiter812]

At least the article doesn't use the phrase "...after a night of partying."

Free access article:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/fr...cle_a86857d8-4008-11e3-ab78-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[hometownhoosier]

MC: And that's where we have a female witness who was leaving, uh, visiting a boy. She's not a college student, she's a little bit older. And she observed the young girl, which we now know to be Lauren, to tip over, while she was sitting on the top step, and hit her head on the concrete. And the boy was sitting a step or two below her.
(snipped by me)

Are we to assume that the female witness is the same person as the bar manager?

SC: So Lauren and Corey headed up an alleyway from there and Lauren is seen falling face first to the ground, hitting her head. She didn't even put up her hands to block herself. Corey helped her to her feet and then just a few steps later she crumbled again to the ground. And again, Corey helps her up and they head up the street. So Lauren and Corey headed up an alleyway from there and head into an apartment building at Tenth and College and knock on the door of four girls who were partying with them earlier in the night, but no one's home.(snipped by me)

Could this be the area north of 10th & College that Chuz shows on the map? This is also an allyway is it not? When I first heard this I assumed it was the same allyway they walked up from 10th street. Also, they have never said how many times they were seen on camera or which cameras they were seen on. They have only stated the last time they were seen on camera.

I thought it had already been established by ZC herself that she was asleep. Why are the PIs saying "no one was home"? Also with the female witness... Was this witness following them (LS and CR) around or what? From what I have read unless I have been reading wrong is that this witness saw multiple events take place. And another thing, did the LE pay attention to any other people who were captured on the same cameras as LS even up to a few hours after? Surely there were more people than just LS and CR and the witness that walked passed one or more of these cameras. On another note: I live in Bloomington. I was born and raised here. I know this area very well. Bars in Bloomington all close at or right around 3am. Many of the college student don't go home during summer break. A lot of people use these alleys to "bar hop". There are numerous bars downtown. It is not uncommon for people to walk around downtown using alleys as short cuts. I truly believe there had to be more people out and about right around the time LS was caught on the cameras. Especially since this was right around the time the bars were closing. A lot of people would have been heading home.

 

[hometownhoosier]

not at all. I've always thought the witness was involved. Also, there's that facebook video that shows AB making out with an older woman while the whole party watches. The party was in a 10th and College apt

The term witness is relative, as in, did this witness really call LE and report what she saw, or was she ID's on camera and basically had to tell the police what she saw.

I repeat, if Lauren did leave JR's, she would have to walk right by the people she had just attempted to drag out of bed, and if they are lying about being asleep like I think they are, then we have multiple very messed up people. And obviously, Lauren was adamant about getting to Zoe for some reason, and let's face it, it was not to buy drugs.

This whole thing about Lauren really wanting to hook up with CR might be a huge propaganda thing masking the opposite--maybe Jesse was trying to step
out on Lauren, or Lauren found out ZC was flirting with Jesse. And, maybe Zoe
picked up Lauren's phone at the pre-party at SW and that incensed Lauren.
Yes, I am going there because I am convinced that someone had Lauren's phone.

I have read a lot about it video.. What video? Anybody have the link??

 

[imkeylime]

At least the article doesn't use the phrase "...after a night of partying."

Free access article:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/fr...cle_a86857d8-4008-11e3-ab78-001a4bcf6878.html

Ouch. I agree with the comments that it's not time until Lauren is found. But it's still possible to keep LS' presence in Bloomington. Love or hate the press (my opinion differs from day to day), but media coverage (positive or negative, sadly) keeps cases from being freezer-bound.

Maybe we can all try to bring LS up in the comment section of any article that describes a rape or possible assault in Bloomington or something like that?

 

[Jacobite]

I don't think removing the signs will help sweep this story under the rug. In fact it could backfire. with another article right on time for Halloween. The story of Lauren Spierer will not go away until it's solved.

 

[bx2]

I thought it had already been established by ZC herself that she was asleep. Why are the PIs saying "no one was home"?

The Lohud video with this detail came out before ZC came forward with her part of the story. Almost as if... gasp... they are filling in details that they don't know to be true.

Also with the female witness... Was this witness following them (LS and CR) around or what? From what I have read unless I have been reading wrong is that this witness saw multiple events take place. And another thing, did the LE pay attention to any other people who were captured on the same cameras as LS even up to a few hours after? Surely there were more people than just LS and CR and the witness that walked passed one or more of these cameras. On another note: I live in Bloomington. I was born and raised here. I know this area very well. Bars in Bloomington all close at or right around 3am. Many of the college student don't go home during summer break. A lot of people use these alleys to "bar hop". There are numerous bars downtown. It is not uncommon for people to walk around downtown using alleys as short cuts. I truly believe there had to be more people out and about right around the time LS was caught on the cameras. Especially since this was right around the time the bars were closing. A lot of people would have been heading home.

I'm local too and have tried to bring up how important this is. Granted, it is quite a bit quieter in the summer, but the chances of encountering multiple during this timeline is still quite high in the high traffic areas that they visited. Use the cameras not just for evidence of LS passing through them, but to talk to people that were in the area at a given time!

 

[bx2]

Most likely, they came North on College Ave. as indicated by the PI's.



Again, the PI's say the video shows them leaving via the main entrance onto College.

Just for full clarification, I wanted to make sure it was evident that the person on the video doing the majority of the narration regarding the path is a Lohud reporter, not one of the PI's. That may have been obvious, but just in case.

 

[Chuz Life]

I have read a lot about it video.. What video? Anybody have the link??

The link to the video and other timeline information is linked to in my first comment under my map.

"This map and time line is based on the data from both the 'official' Bloomington Police TimeLine and the LOHUD Timeline put out by the private investigators associated with "Bo Dietl" _ I believe hired by the Spierer family."

 

[Chuz Life]

Just for full clarification, I wanted to make sure it was evident that the person on the video doing the majority of the narration regarding the path is a Lohud reporter, not one of the PI's. That may have been obvious, but just in case.

If that reporter got something wrong, they would have been corrected by the PI's though. At least I would hope so.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up.

 

[AbbeyR]

Just bumping up an old article...

“As we look at Lauren’s posters, to us, that’s an abstract,” Charlene said. “It’s not who she is. She’s not a poster. She’s a person.”

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=85908

Signs or no signs, people aren't going to forget about Lauren, and this case isn't going away.

 

[hometownhoosier]

The link to the video and other timeline information is linked to in my first comment under my map.

Actually I meant the video of an "older lady" partying with the college students that was making out with someone.. Idk who is supposed to be in the video, but I have seen it mentioned in previous comments while talking about the female witness.

 

[Chuz Life]

Actually I meant the video of an "older lady" partying with the college students that was making out with someone.. Idk who is supposed to be in the video, but I have seen it mentioned in previous comments while talking about the female witness.

Okay :facepalm:

My bad.

 

[AbbeyR]

Actually I meant the video of an "older lady" partying with the college students that was making out with someone.. Idk who is supposed to be in the video, but I have seen it mentioned in previous comments while talking about the female witness.

It has nothing to do with the witness. It is a bad video of people who are not even POI at a party.

I think it's offline, but you could try searching for it here - it was linked at some point, but IMO, it's not relevant to this case at all.