IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[Ixchel13]

I understand that music is one of the things Lauren and Jesse did not agree on. Jesse liked jam bands which are rooted in progressive jazz. Lauren loved pretty melodies and harmonies.

I do know something about the jam bands, the Grateful Dead, Umphrey's McGee, phish, Moe, and Widespread Panic. I was someone these bands wanted to know and I have met them.
I don't associate jam bands with hard drugs. Their fans are mostly a bunch of potheads and second generation hippies.

no offense, but that is not true. In the camp grounds around the concerts
there's scads of acid, some of it bad, and now of course Molly. People come to the concerts also to sell fake opium, and other rip offs. On PT one of the major subjects of discussion is near ODs, how to come down from a bad Molly trip, and really, 1/3 of their discussions is about drugs. To me, a hard drug doesn't have to be just opiates like heroin. I consider Molly a hard drug. Trey Anastasio, frontman for Phish, has been treated (successfully?) for heroin addiction. I'm not in any way blaming any of these bands for what their deluded followers do. Charles Manson blamed the Beatles partly for what he did because of their song Helter Skelter. but did they do it or know about it? of course not.
But this is not about defending jam bands, don't want to veer off topic. This is about a website allowing a victim to be graphically slandered and a lot of folks wondering why, and who might be behind that slander and why.

 

[Ixchel13]

The mods on

PT appeared to be deleting threads that were reported as being inappropriate. Threads that mentioned personal info about other posters were deleted.

We should be careful on here about debating another website, right? But, the mods did not delete a single post slandering Lauren and they were constantly
being flagged, and the mods were appealed to many times on PMs to do so. Whatever else they did, they did not delete these. This and only this was my point to begin with. The mods definitely took sides, and IMO, the wrong side,
the criminally wrong side.

 

[Ixchel13]

As an aside, what makes any motivation JW would have different than motivation CR would have? CR made it clear he was romantically interested (well, at least physically). I'm fairly certain jealousy and anger would possibly resonate with him too given that LS and JW, even if they were on the rocks, were still an item and CR may have felt she was leading on him yet choosing JW. CR also has the benefit of actually knowing where LS is at all times that night; JW's knowledge of LS' whereabouts is pure speculation at this point.

Also, can we be absolutely certain CR actually went to bed? It is odd that DB and CR are tucked in bed during the critical moments and then we have MB who dutifully removes LS from CR and takes her to JR.

who says DB was tucked in bed?

 

[Jacobite]

who says DB was tucked in bed?

I suspect Jason lured Lauren over in the wee hours to impress his friend David, not Corey.
So, I suspect Corey would have been pleased with the opportunity to tuck Bleznak in himself.
Maybe Corey tucked him in. Or not.

 

[Jacobite]

Who is Justin?

That would be the person who first publicly connected David Bleznak to Jason Rosenbaum and placed DB in Bloomington on 3 June, 2011.

I suspect DB got out oof town before his name was known to police. Yet, we now learn Jay's party was for David.

 

[Ixchel13]

I suspect Jason lured Lauren over in the wee hours to impress his friend David, not Corey.
So, I suspect Corey would have been pleased with the opportunity to tuck Bleznak in himself.
Maybe Corey tucked him in. Or not.

Whaaaaa? I agree with the first part, about possibly luring her over, but CR tucking DB in? Not that I'm disagreeing, but could you elaborate?

 

[Jacobite]

If Lauren met her end withe the 5 N boys? I doubt any were in bed.

 

[Jacobite]

Now can we find a connection between J O and JR or DB? That would be significant. However, Ortiz writes like Gabe Rivera on Lauren and pot.

 

[Ixchel13]

Now can we find a connection between J and JR or DB? That would be significant. However, O writes like Gabe Rivera on Lauren and pot.

Yes I can see that, but I don't think it's him. also, is his name a play on words? In the Spanish pronunciation it's " tease".
I've never thought of his name as J. O, but J. On PT, those geniuses
had clever plays on words names. If he is dumb enough to use his real name, though, should be easy to nail.

 

[sammi89]

Respectfully snipped by me.

This may be a longshot ... and I'd love Sammi to provide input ... but:

I'm wondering if he could be a UofM grad like DB. That doesn't mean a lot, obviously, but it might mean something. The reason I wonder this is because in the second link, he's obviously talking about UofM football coaches. Also, in the third link when he talks about not liking Ohioans and says he's from Michigan, "Michigan" could be the school vs. the state. Although there is a rivalry between the states in some respects, the biggest rivalry is between the football programs (UofM and Ohio State), IMO.

OTOH, lots of people root for UofM football both within Michigan and out, so this could be purely unrelated. Also, many people are UofM grads, of course.

I believe he said at one point he was a former UM fan in one of those threads, right? If so, I doubt he is a UM grad because they don't usually stop cheering for their own team. I think you could probably rule out OSU and MSU if he cheered on UM since those schools are rivals though. JMO.

 

[sammi89]

who says DB was tucked in bed?

Please see my earlier post #519 which links to this article: http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gene...sman-focus-of-missing-indiana-student-mystery

 

[Ixchel13]

Please see my earlier post #519 which links to this article: http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gene...sman-focus-of-missing-indiana-student-mystery

yes JR says he was asleep. If we believe DB was asleep because JR said so, then why not believe Lauren walked out alone at 4:30?

I heard an interesting piece of hearsay from a youngish local yesterday. I asked him, what do you think happened to Lauren ?just to see what he would say.
He said he heard there were 2 altercations-the first altercation was about ZO not wanting CR to be with Lauren. Then, he said he heard there was a second argument later about taking her to the hospital. One guy(s?) wanted to take her because she was OD-ing, and the other(s?) said they would go to jail.

Interesting because he said they argued while there was still time. That would explain CR's amnesia. I can see him and possibly MB as the ones arguing to take her, JR on the fence, and DB adamant about not going to jail.

In this scenario, MB is lying about Lauren asking him if he wanted to party--he would have had to have done some kind of drug with Lauren to keep him in the conspiracy, possibly what sent her over the edge. That's how they would have kept him in it. CR says he's going to claim amnesia if they don't take her, or perhaps he decided that later.

JR might have wanted to take her, but his best bud DB tells him they will go to jail,
and also that even though he brought the drugs down from MI, JR is the one who sold them to Lauren therefore he's going to be in the most trouble.
I could see this argument as everyone blackmailing each other, and then DB has to take Lauren away to make everyone agree.
Or, there was no OD-- I could also see DB following Lauren, slamming her against the wall like that remote viewer said because he described the walkway between the houses leading to the parking lot perfectly, accidentally(?) killing her or putting her unconscious, and then telling the others she is ODing and he found her on the street.
Just a rumor w. hypothesis, probably not true.

 

[thorpedo]

Wonder if DB has an older bro.

He does. He went to UM and was headed to law school before the big bucks in the family swayed him. He is also very involved in the local music scene.

Google the last name and law school and you'll find it. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link it since it has nothing to do with the investigation itself. If anyone can fill me in on that rule, that would be great. I'm a long time lurker, but a newbie at posting.

 

[Ixchel13]

He does. He went to UM and was headed to law school before the big bucks in the family swayed him. He is also very involved in the local music scene.

Google the last name and law school and you'll find it. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link it since it has nothing to do with the investigation itself. If anyone can fill me in on that rule, that would be great. I'm a long time lurker, but a newbie at posting.

shut the front door! did he play football? Not sure about the posting links
either, but I think you can PM info like that to people. hint, hint.

 

[thorpedo]

did he play football?

No, but a huge fan.

 

[akh]

The flaw I see in the OD theory would be once she would've passed and the hospital argument no longer valid, they could've put their wagons in a circle regarding where she got the drugs rather than making the body disappear.

Of course the counter would be they weren't thinking straight, or else couldn't control all of the sources that would place them supplying her drugs so would be tied back to the crime. But would that be any better than making her disappear and not being able to control the sources that would claim they supplied her drugs prior to this? I suppose if they were thinking 'no body, no crime' then all bets are off what they might've done. Especially if not thinking straight and in a panic scenario.

I still think it's possible they set up some type of Laurel and Hardy plan to blame her demise on a homeless person or random stranger and something unexpected happened that worked in their favor. Something where they never expected she wouldn't be found. My first theory was always the dumpster and it just being emptied before anyone checked it... but Jacobite looked into the pickup schedule and unless Jacobite was given incorrect info then that would seem to be ruled out.

 

[Ixchel13]

The flaw I see in the OD theory would be once she would've passed and the hospital argument no longer valid, they could've put their wagons in a circle regarding where she got the drugs rather than making the body disappear.

Of course the counter would be they weren't thinking straight, or else couldn't control all of the sources that would place them supplying her drugs so would be tied back to the crime. But would that be any better than making her disappear and not being able to control the sources that would claim they supplied her drugs prior to this? I suppose if they were thinking 'no body, no crime' then all bets are off what they might've done. Especially if not thinking straight and in a panic scenario.

I still think it's possible they set up some type of Laurel and Hardy plan to blame her demise on a homeless person or random stranger and something unexpected happened that worked in their favor. Something where they never expected she wouldn't be found. My first theory was always the dumpster and it just being emptied before anyone checked it... but Jacobite looked into the pickup schedule and unless Jacobite was given incorrect info then that would seem to be ruled out.

well, see they couldn't lie about where she got the drugs because the other part of the gang, ZO<ZC<HT<AB, just about everyone incl JW, knew just where they came from.

 

[Ixchel13]

ARRRGH!! what a time to be at work and have to work. back later,
everyone is coming up with diamonds, sleuth on!

 

[sammi89]

yes JR says he was asleep. If we believe DB was asleep because JR said so, then why not believe Lauren walked out alone at 4:30?

I heard an interesting piece of hearsay from a youngish local yesterday. I asked him, what do you think happened to Lauren ?just to see what he would say.
He said he heard there were 2 altercations-the first altercation was about ZO not wanting CR to be with Lauren. Then, he said he heard there was a second argument later about taking her to the hospital. One guy(s?) wanted to take her because she was OD-ing, and the other(s?) said they would go to jail.

Interesting because he said they argued while there was still time. That would explain CR's amnesia. I can see him and possibly MB as the ones arguing to take her, JR on the fence, and DB adamant about not going to jail.

In this scenario, MB is lying about Lauren asking him if he wanted to party--he would have had to have done some kind of drug with Lauren to keep him in the conspiracy, possibly what sent her over the edge. That's how they would have kept him in it. CR says he's going to claim amnesia if they don't take her, or perhaps he decided that later.

JR might have wanted to take her, but his best bud DB tells him they will go to jail,
and also that even though he brought the drugs down from MI, JR is the one who sold them to Lauren therefore he's going to be in the most trouble.
I could see this argument as everyone blackmailing each other, and then DB has to take Lauren away to make everyone agree.
Or, there was no OD-- I could also see DB following Lauren, slamming her against the wall like that remote viewer said because he described the walkway between the houses leading to the parking lot perfectly, accidentally(?) killing her or putting her unconscious, and then telling the others she is ODing and he found her on the street.
Just a rumor w. hypothesis, probably not true.

I'm not sure if you are implying that I think JR was telling the truth about DB, but in my original post I basically said I was skeptical.

I agree with your bottom half. I've mentioned this possibility before. I think it is entirely possible and plausible given that people dump ODs instead of taking them to the hospital more than we would like to think. I listened to a speaker talk about her personal experience with a similar situation - her brother OD'd at his frat house and instead of calling 911, ALL of the frat brothers argued about it. One of the brothers finally caved and called 911, but they had been arguing for awhile and by then it was too late. He died.

 

[sammi89]

Some more thoughts on how stopping by ZC's could play into it.

(1) If there is any truth to the rumors concerning LS' behavior at Kilroy's, it seems like CR accompanying her home may have been in part to get help or let her roomies take over. Altercation happens, he leaves.

(2) He goes to ZC for help. She doesn't answer. He leaves.

(3) He goes to MB for help. MB comes through at least insofar as to involve JR.



To me, it makes the most sense that he went to ZC's to either get help from her or get rid of LS (i.e., make it ZC's problem). LS was tripping and falling, unable to walk unassisted, may have had other issues based on the rumors.

I think it is unlikely that they were looking to party (literally or look for drugs) at least after the altercation based on what CR and MB claim took place - CR went to bed. So why stop at ZC's if he was exhausted, ready to puke, etc.? To get help or drop her off. If this is true, then why did LS leave Smallwood? If, like the original story, she wanted to ensure CR was okay and made it home to his bed, wouldn't she have accompanied the entire way? Especially if CR was so sick he was throwing up?