IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[akh]

The truck passed through the intersection only once. Two cameras with two different time stamps made it appear the vehicle came around the block a second time. I don't recall the exact times, but say, for example, one camera showed 4:10 and another 4:15. Later it was discovered one clock was five minutes off, and both cameras actually captured the truck at the same time.

LE did an extensive search of the truck. The driver was picking up a co-worker. Video evidence supports that account. I'm sure employer's records do, too.

There are scads of media links and posts about this in the previous threads. For now, here's one MSM link.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/0...-not-connected-indiana-students-disappearance

The question then becomes: Were there no other vehicles in that area to not look they too were circling the block due to the time stamp? Was it the only vehicle in that area of town?

 

[elmorejames]

The question then becomes: Were there no other vehicles in that area to not look they too were circling the block due to the time stamp? Was it the only vehicle in that area of town?

The white truck never ever sat well with me. I've always thought of this case and the rare chance for abduction greater than college kids getting away with this and all keeping their stories straight. From day 1 I thought it was JW but as time went on I considered stranger abduction more and more. Back to the white truck!

I've spent time trying to determine what the signage on the side panel said but could never get a true glimpse. When someone above thread recently mentioned the blur on the sidewalk, I never picked that up in any visuals but definitely see it now. So that leads me to believe they did circle twice. Once with her on the sidewalk and once with her in the cab (it's clearly visible someone is in the cab and I see the 3/4 length sleeve that she was known to be wearing that night in the dorm hallway photo).

Now couple the white truck with the 3-alarm fire that happened in Martinsville days later at a said Tree service company's land. I looked up the www.treeremovalbySAIDNAME.com and there seems to be a photo of a similar white truck not exact model bearing a similar side panel logo. I'm not pointing fingers but the vicinity of this fire is a 13 minute drive just north on Rt. 37 according to Google Maps. Just trying to be the best sleuth I can be, think outside the box, and cross over anything that LE hasn't or dropped the ball on. Feel free to agree or dismiss just giving my observation.

These two events never sat well with me and I have a slight inclination they could be linked.

 

[Ixchel13]

The white truck never ever sat well with me. I've always thought of this case and the rare chance for abduction greater than college kids getting away with this and all keeping their stories straight. From day 1 I thought it was JW but as time went on I considered stranger abduction more and more. Back to the white truck!

From Ixchel13 and you'd have to wonder if said unnamed tree service owner/employee was friends with or related to members of the fire dept. I know, I'm getting onto hallowed ground with firefighters. What I'm saying is, that when they arrived at the scene it would be like oh whatcha doing having a fire this big, you know better type of thing and throwing some water on it instead of a full investigation. Because they would obviously think they were just burning trees.
Martinsville does not cooperate with Bloomington. They send letters to our newspaper calling us Sodom and sometimes Gomorrah. Both cities have their problems. Bloomington--maybe IS S&G after midnight. Martinsville is blatantly racist, sexist, etc. Would their LEs cooperate?

I've spent time trying to determine what the signage on the side panel said but could never get a true glimpse. When someone above thread recently mentioned the blur on the sidewalk, I never picked that up in any visuals but definitely see it now. So that leads me to believe they did circle twice. Once with her on the sidewalk and once with her in the cab (it's clearly visible someone is in the cab and I see the 3/4 length sleeve that she was known to be wearing that night in the dorm hallway photo).

Now couple the white truck with the 3-alarm fire that happened in Martinsville days later at a said Tree service company's land. I looked up the www.treeremovalbySAIDNAME.com and there seems to be a photo of a similar white truck not exact model bearing a similar side panel logo. I'm not pointing fingers but the vicinity of this fire is a 13 minute drive just north on Rt. 37 according to Google Maps. Just trying to be the best sleuth I can be, think outside the box, and cross over anything that LE hasn't or dropped the ball on. Feel free to agree or dismiss just giving my observation.

These two events never sat well with me and I have a slight inclination they could be linked.

I think if we bring up the DWT again for real, then this time we should really go all out with the digital enhancing bling. Brave words from me, because I don't know how to do it but I have seen amazing examples here on WS. We could do a call out to all
digital specs on here even if they are mostly on other threads!

 

[monkey222]

The DWT has bothered me as well. In my recollection, it was named as a vehicle of interest since it was thought to circle, appearing to show up twice. But of course we have learned that it was only a time stamp discrepancy. So, so what. So the DWT, and HOW MANY other vehicles passed her alledged rounded corner walking route circa 3:15am til first determined missing, like
9. .10am ish? We have not heard one iota of other vehicles on camera..only the DWT. If she was abducted, hit, scooped up, of course that may be the luck of perp that camera missed that moment. But, she could still be in a vehicle that a camera caught. This making me mad (again)

 

[imkeylime]

In regards to the "drug game" at IU, I often wonder if LE knows the main dealers/players in the game? If it's such as an issue like Bo Dietl states, how come nothing is being done about it to crack down on it? I guess my real questions are for the people on this forum:

1) Do you personally think LE knows who these dealers are and allows them to operate?

2) Would it shock you if there were dirty cops profiting from these dealers?

I've always wondered about this, and more importantly I've always wanted more info about Lerg's suicide just days before Lauren's disappearance. Usually there are news reports whether or not an officer was struggling with depression, or even if shocked the rest of the department. I can't remember reading anything about it.

I can't speak for Bloomington, but in my area, LE goes after dealers more than users, IMO. I think it goes back to publicity, which other posters have addressed. Kids party at big town events, and LE overlooks it. But when LE catches drift of a dealer, LE moves in ... and comes out looking good. But I live in a small town, and it's not a college town. I can't really compare, just share what I've seen.

That said, I think that drugs are pretty much a problem across the country with the high school/college populations. I wish I knew why. That said, as with any town with a drug problem, there are probably a few cops who look the other way for whatever reason, paybacks being one of them JMO.

 

[imkeylime]

The white truck never ever sat well with me. I've always thought of this case and the rare chance for abduction greater than college kids getting away with this and all keeping their stories straight. From day 1 I thought it was JW but as time went on I considered stranger abduction more and more. Back to the white truck!

I've spent time trying to determine what the signage on the side panel said but could never get a true glimpse. When someone above thread recently mentioned the blur on the sidewalk, I never picked that up in any visuals but definitely see it now. So that leads me to believe they did circle twice. Once with her on the sidewalk and once with her in the cab (it's clearly visible someone is in the cab and I see the 3/4 length sleeve that she was known to be wearing that night in the dorm hallway photo).

Now couple the white truck with the 3-alarm fire that happened in Martinsville days later at a said Tree service company's land. I looked up the www.treeremovalbySAIDNAME.com and there seems to be a photo of a similar white truck not exact model bearing a similar side panel logo. I'm not pointing fingers but the vicinity of this fire is a 13 minute drive just north on Rt. 37 according to Google Maps. Just trying to be the best sleuth I can be, think outside the box, and cross over anything that LE hasn't or dropped the ball on. Feel free to agree or dismiss just giving my observation.

These two events never sat well with me and I have a slight inclination they could be linked.

One of the things that makes me wonder about the white truck is that it allegedly had a connection to the construction industry. There as so much construction going on in Bloomington that summer. I've always felt it a strong possibility that LS never left Bloomington at all but is buried under the rubble somewhere, somehow. Unless the sites were closed off/shut down right after she disappeared, it's possible that any evidence was quickly compromised, especially with multiple sites around town. JMO, and I have no explanation as to how that would involve the white truck. Just looking for connections ...

 

[OldSteve]

One of the things that makes me wonder about the white truck is that it allegedly had a connection to the construction industry. There as so much construction going on in Bloomington that summer. I've always felt it a strong possibility that LS never left Bloomington at all but is buried under the rubble somewhere, somehow. Unless the sites were closed off/shut down right after she disappeared, it's possible that any evidence was quickly compromised, especially with multiple sites around town. JMO, and I have no explanation as to how that would involve the white truck. Just looking for connections ...

Agree about being left under construction rubble. Could be by accident or on purpose.

ETA - thinking about this and cases like it - they are what I'll call "a case of 3 no's"; and as such are most difficult to solve.
No crime scene found or witnessing of crime (including surveillance).
No contact by victim with anyone after going missing - including banking or social media
No body found.

Curiously, sometimes personal belonging of the victim are found close by or some distance from where the victim was known to be, but these items do confirm a homicide has taken place.

 

[Vidocq]

After all this talk of the white truck, I printed off copies of the two surveillance photos, and I went down there to see which cameras they represented. (Someone on Websleuths may have done this already.) I took pictures, but I can't upload them now, as I'm at work. Anyway, the camera taking the perpendicular profile of the truck (the most seen photo) appears to be located on the north side of Morton Mansions, facing the south side of Tenth & College Village. The camera that took the higher, 45-degree angle shot appears to be a few feet west and across the street, attached to the south-west corner of T&CV, facing east down 10th street. Both shots are capturing the white truck as it is on 10th Street, about to enter the 10th & Morton intersection from the east.

The question then becomes: Were there no other vehicles in that area to not look they too were circling the block due to the time stamp? Was it the only vehicle in that area of town?

That's an excellent point: the time stamp would have been off all night. Therefore, if any other vehicle had past those two cameras, during the time of interest, then those other vehicles would also have appeared to be "circling". Therefore, the white truck, since it was the only vehicle that was thought to be circling, we can reasonable conclude, was the only vehicle to drive between Morton Mansions and T&CV during the times the police would have looked at the footage for.

Another deduction occurs to me, regarding the bar-manager witness: she must not be on camera. Consider the interview Qualters gave, concerning the bar-manager witness (If you scroll down on the page, it's the interview labeled June 22nd, the third from last press conference):

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2011...efings-on-the-case-of-lauren-spierer?id=81917

Qualters seems to say, that the reason they don't believe the bar-manager witness on time is because of an absence of video supporting her story. What he does not say is, we have video of the witness coming and going, and it shows that she was in the area, but an hour off. I find this meaningful. If the bar-manager witness, for example, was "visiting a boy" who lived at Tenth & College (perfectly likely since she would have walked right past the south-east steps to see Lauren, had she been walking from the garage elevator to her car parked, say, on College Ave. out front), then that would prove that the camera coverage from whichever floor bar witness was coming from, all the way down the elevator, and out, was totally inoperable.

This raises the further possibility that the "employee" that the white truck was picking up lived at Tenth & College. (If the employee in fact lived at Tenth & College, then I'm thinking that the truck was headed north or west, since it continued west on 10th, instead of going east.) If the bar-manager witness saw Lauren and Mystery Man at 3:38, then that would give Mystery Man about 37 minutes to take Lauren upstairs, realize she's dead, and summon the white truck to come get her, at around 4:15. It's interesting, though it might be a coincidence, that 4:15 is also the time that JR's phone makes two calls.

 

[Mahouston69]

My next question is are either of those called at 4:15, ( one of which police won't say) ..friends with or work with the man driving the truck?

 

[Mahouston69]

Is it not also possible that the man picked up for work that morning was waiting for his ride out of camera view, saw and talked with Lauren, and offered a lift home?....

 

[Ixchel13]

After all this talk of the white truck, I printed off copies of the two surveillance photos, and I went down there to see which cameras they represented. (Someone on Websleuths may have done this already.) I took pictures, but I can't upload them now, as I'm at work. Anyway, the camera taking the perpendicular profile of the truck (the most seen photo) appears to be located on the north side of Morton Mansions, facing the south side of Tenth & College Village. The camera that took the higher, 45-degree angle shot appears to be a few feet west and across the street, attached to the south-west corner of T&CV, facing east down 10th street. Both shots are capturing the white truck as it is on 10th Street, about to enter the 10th & Morton intersection from the east.



That's an excellent point: the time stamp would have been off all night. Therefore, if any other vehicle had past those two cameras, during the time of interest, then those other vehicles would also have appeared to be "circling". Therefore, the white truck, since it was the only vehicle that was thought to be circling, we can reasonable conclude, was the only vehicle to drive between Morton Mansions and T&CV during the times the police would have looked at the footage for.

Another deduction occurs to me, regarding the bar-manager witness: she must not be on camera. Consider the interview Qualters gave, concerning the bar-manager witness (If you scroll down on the page, it's the interview labeled June 22nd, the third from last press conference):

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2011...efings-on-the-case-of-lauren-spierer?id=81917

Qualters seems to say, that the reason they don't believe the bar-manager witness on time is because of an absence of video supporting her story. What he does not say is, we have video of the witness coming and going, and it shows that she was in the area, but an hour off. I find this meaningful. If the bar-manager witness, for example, was "visiting a boy" who lived at Tenth & College (perfectly likely since she would have walked right past the south-east steps to see Lauren, had she been walking from the garage elevator to her car parked, say, on College Ave. out front), then that would prove that the camera coverage from whichever floor bar witness was coming from, all the way down the elevator, and out, was totally inoperable.

This raises the further possibility that the "employee" that the white truck was picking up lived at Tenth & College. (If the employee in fact lived at Tenth & College, then I'm thinking that the truck was headed north or west, since it continued west on 10th, instead of going east.) If the bar-manager witness saw Lauren and Mystery Man at 3:38, then that would give Mystery Man about 37 minutes to take Lauren upstairs, realize she's dead, and summon the white truck to come get her, at around 4:15. It's interesting, though it might be a coincidence, that 4:15 is also the time that JR's phone makes two calls.

I agree with everything here. Don't forget, the bar manager could have been partying withthese people. Just because she's called a witness doesn't mean LE didn't see her on camera just as you say, and what we are hearing from her is what she said under questioning. No, I don't think she actively participated in anything against Lauren, but IMO she saw everything.

 

[Mahouston69]

Do you mean she may have seen the mystery man with Lauren on the steps waiting for the ride (truck) and then over his shoulder before putting her in the truck? Time would have fit timeline, but big clock on corner was off by an hour?

 

[Ixchel13]

who really knows the extent of what she saw? Afa the cameras, and all of the ones that don't have what we need to see. either we are not meant to see on purpose; they weren't ever really operable; or all of those millions got in the way of the camera views. Plus, the timeline is wonky as you say, and we don't know why either. Is it a coincidence that all of the the cameras weren't working at the apt. complex AND the city of Bloomington's time stamp wasn't working right at the moment someone goes missing? IDK....the mathematical odds would go through the roof of the very atmosphere once you added the fact that she went missing exactly
when all these things weren't working, and the DWT right there too. IOW, tampering.

 

[monkey222]

And again the question is, how many vehicles were caught on camera on LS's last supposed route, that is, rounding the corner then onward, between 3:15ish am and the time she was noticed to be missing? Are we supposed to believe that only one vehicle is on camera. Geez.

 

[Ixchel13]

And again the question is, how many vehicles were caught on camera on LS's last supposed route, that is, rounding the corner then onward, between 3:15ish am and the time she was noticed to be missing? Are we supposed to believe that only one vehicle is on camera. Geez.

And again the question is, how many vehicles were caught on camera on LS's last supposed route, that is, rounding the corner then onward, between 3:15ish am and the time she was noticed to be missing? Are we supposed to believe that only one vehicle is on camera. Geez.

there was BTown's viewing of a video of a vehicle on Walnut between 8th and 9th (read, Kilroys) at the time Lauren was supposedly in the area walking. a car running by the curb, with a girl near it, and a skateboarder across the street. always thought they interviewed the skateboarder, IMO he was the one who posted on fb and iirc, here, about seeing a car and a woman by the curb at around 4:30 with a blonde woman in the car.
people on fb treated him like he was crazy. yet he seems to have seen something very similar to something that was reported to have been seen on camera. so, if we treat him as a pseudo eye witness, then it seems like
anyone who reports seeing something contrary to the media driven report is refuted. Notice I didn't say the LE report, because they aren't really telling us anything. Qualters didn't disqualify what the witness said at all, he just relegated her testimony to a different timetable. But in the media, she is considered bogus.

 

[monkey222]

Thank you Ixchel, what a great memory. I suppose it is possible that LE has knowledge of each vehicles' plates travelling in that time span, those that is that are on camera, but it is so incredibly frustrating that no leads are made public...
..... Could she have literally slipped thru the cracks?? And I do mean streets and sidewalk construction. Concrete holes were checked....right?? ...before filled in.
Just soo much construction peri early June.

 

[akh]

And again the question is, how many vehicles were caught on camera on LS's last supposed route, that is, rounding the corner then onward, between 3:15ish am and the time she was noticed to be missing? Are we supposed to believe that only one vehicle is on camera. Geez.

My memory is fuzzy on this but it does seem like LE said the truck ran a stop sign (or light) and therefore that is why they couldn't see the plates in any of the video. Does anyone else recall this or did someone just speculate about that point back at the time?

It's also possible LS appeared in a frame or two of the video with the truck that made the truck's occupant(s) more interesting as possible witnesses for LE.

So maybe the truck was more interesting to LE for something that LE saw regarding LS in the same video as the truck passed, not as suspects, and that 'something' is not something LE has wanted to add to the narrative for whatever reason.

Since LE has been so quiet it's really hard to discern much of anything as to whether they have lots more info and evidence, a little more, or nothing more than is already in the public's eye (either via LE's statements, the media's reports, the PI's, or the civil suit papers).

 

[CoolJ]

My memory is fuzzy on this but it does seem like LE said the truck ran a stop sign (or light) and therefore that is why they couldn't see the plates in any of the video. Does anyone else recall this or did someone just speculate about that point back at the time?

It's also possible LS appeared in a frame or two of the video with the truck that made the truck's occupant(s) more interesting as possible witnesses for LE.

So maybe the truck was more interesting to LE for something that LE saw regarding LS in the same video as the truck passed, not as suspects, and that 'something' is not something LE has wanted to add to the narrative for whatever reason.

Since LE has been so quiet it's really hard to discern much of anything as to whether they have lots more info and evidence, a little more, or nothing more than is already in the public's eye (either via LE's statements, the media's reports, the PI's, or the civil suit papers).

Just curious. Why would running a stop sign make them unable to see a license plate?
Also, JMO but I believe they have lots more info and evidence.

 

[CoolJ]

As far as timestamps go, have a look at almost any missing persons caught on several surveillance cams. There is 90% of the time a discrepancy there. LE always seems to say such and such camera was off by x amount of time. I don't believe that happens in today's world. IMO this is just a tactic to control the situation so that they are the only ones who know exact times.

 

[Ixchel13]

As far as timestamps go, have a look at almost any missing persons caught on several surveillance cams. There is 90% of the time a discrepancy there. LE always seems to say such and such camera was off by x amount if time. I don't believe that happens in today's world. IMO this is just a tactic to control the situation so that they are the only ones who know exact times.

good one.