IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[Ixchel13]

let's see.....Martha Moxley. She was rich, perp was rich, nephew of a US Prez., thought he got away with it....and after all those years, what happened?
I feel that if the POIs did it, they will end up in prison eventually, and I betcha that keeps them up
at night.

 

[ontheclock]

For the legal wizards out there, now that the law suit has been dismissed, are the 5N boys free from civil litigation with respect to LS's death? Regardless of what evidence or information is obtained going forward..?

Good question, can the plaintiffs re-sue? If IRC, they can appeal. If the appeal is denied, what then? Appeal at a higher level? If so, and they lose appeal (at whatever level), can they refile?

 

[Ixchel13]

What's this other video? Is there a link?

ok this guy, comes on facebook and I think he was even on here, can't remember his user name--anyway, he was the one who described the car running and the girl by the curb and a few more details AND his description of the occurrence somewhat resembles what BTown viewed, IMO. Only in this guy's story, he doesn't describe the skateboarder...leading me to conjecture that he IS the skateboarder. Is this important?
Maybe not, but it could be. a question is, why hear about it at all? If it was a non-occurrence, why was the snip of video brought up at all anyway?

 

[akh]

They could re-sue. Double jeopardy doesn't really attach to civil proceedings per se'.... BUT for all intents and purposes the bar will be set even higher for the second bite of the apple. The case has already been thrown out by a judge. So that precedent is set. They would have to satisfy the (new) judge that the new filing is materially different than what had come before or else it will be thrown out on precedent (assuming the current decision survives appeal... and it likely will). Just being a 'little' different likely isn't enough. Plus, they'd need to find an attorney that would want to proceed on trying to get a second bite of the apple in which the case had already been thrown out once before. This type of thing would also be frowned upon by those in the system. You can't use the courts to harass someone and keep going back for more just because you got a decision you didn't like. Once the court rules, and the appeals process has ran its course, for a second bite there would need to be a much different angle and tactic taken or it would never get off the ground for a number of reasons. IMHO

 

[ontheclock]

I was looking for the phrase "Dismissed with prejudice" vs "Dismissed without prejudice". I tried to read the link and couldn't find it.

 

[akh]

I was looking for the phrase "Dismissed with prejudice" vs "Dismissed without prejudice". I tried to read the link and couldn't find it.

What we've seen of the judge's decision does seem to be what would be expected with a "Dismissed with prejudice" decision. But nothing has said that specifically that I've seen.

 

[akh]

And here's the answer:

Therefore, the Defendants’ Motion for Summary Judgment (Filing No. 61) is GRANTED, and the Spierers’ claims against Rosenbaum and Rossman are DISMISSED with prejudice.

Assuming the appeal fails, this slams the door shut on bringing this suit again.

 

[AbbeyR]

iirc, the only video Qualters talks about is Lauren in the alley, and emerging from it; and Lauren going out the door after the altercation...and of course Lauren walking down the hall when she first left to go out. No one ever says they saw video of Lauren on the steps--it was the PIs paraphrasing what the eye witness said she saw. I for one think it's odd they paraphrase what she said she saw, and seem to believe she saw it, but say it's not on video and the wrong time. We are discussing the white truck. the mystery man, and the eye witness because we want to and really, isn't that what this forum is for? IOW, Some people may see something as very clear, and others see a huge, gray area. instead.

Qualters does not specify the location in his statement. He is responding to a question about Gatto's report of the witness and what the witness claims to have seen at 3:38 (a man carrying Lauren over his shoulder). The response is that the man is known to LE and that through video evidence they can say that this did not happen at the location described by the witness at 3:38, but that they do appear almost an hour earlier. This implies that they do have video evidence, if not of the actual moment of the encounter, before and/or after.

And yes, I am discussing it too I have some questions about the white truck as well and there have been some interesting points in the last few pages that I read. But I personally can't dismiss that we do have some info from LE and the PIs, including: The white truck was officially cleared, and there is no 'mystery man' - it was Corey Rossman. So, considering some of the theories above, I have to first ask myself whether or not there's any logical reason to discount the couple of bits of information that has been given to the public. Is there?...

 

[AbbeyR]

I just saw this article about a drone being used in the Hannah Graham search effort and couldn't help but think of LS and how this could have perhaps been useful. With the exception of the construction site theory, I suppose. But I agree with Abbey ... someday the answers will be found.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/01/us/virginia-hannah-graham/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The Hannah Graham case is heartbreaking and has made me think of Lauren a lot. It's also amazing to see how differently it has been handled and the different approach from LE.

 

[OldSteve]

The Hannah Graham case is heartbreaking and has made me think of Lauren a lot. It's also amazing to see how differently it has been handled and the different approach from LE.

Interesting to compare the two cases....
Surveillance and whitenesses around the time just when Hannah went missing so much better and straight forward; and true, quick action by LE.
Contrast this to Morgan Harrington abduction/murder...

 

[Vidocq]

I want to figure out who this white truck belonged to. As has been said, it seems likely that it's a construction vehicle, due to the possible tools in the back, the earliness of the hour, and the apparent writing on the door. Another clue occurs to me: I've never worked in construction, but it seems to me that they start working at sunrise. So why pick up an employee at 4:15ish? On a construction job, I don't know, but I'm guessing everybody meets at the construction office, and then they take the company trucks out to the site. My point is: the employee was being picked up two hours before sunrise. Does this not indicate that they had a long drive ahead of them? Perhaps the construction company, or the site, or both were located in Indianapolis.

 

[akh]

I want to figure out who this white truck belonged to. As has been said, it seems likely that it's a construction vehicle, due to the possible tools in the back, the earliness of the hour, and the apparent writing on the door. Another clue occurs to me: I've never worked in construction, but it seems to me that they start working at sunrise. So why pick up an employee at 4:15ish? On a construction job, I don't know, but I'm guessing everybody meets at the construction office, and then they take the company trucks out to the site. My point is: the employee was being picked up two hours before sunrise. Does this not indicate that they had a long drive ahead of them? Perhaps the construction company, or the site, or both were located in Indianapolis.

They wouldn't necessarily meet at the company office versus going straight to the construction site. Employees wouldn't necessarily have a company truck, or they could have take home privileges too. And they wouldn't necessarily start their day at sunrise but it would typically be close. They might get there before sunrise to park, prep tools, etc. so they can start at first light. None of this really changes your main point though. 4:15AM does leave quite a bit of time before sunrise. The only other thing I could think of would be if they planned or regularly stopped for breakfast before work.

 

[doubtingthomas]

They wouldn't necessarily meet at the company office versus going straight to the construction site. Employees wouldn't necessarily have a company truck, or they could have take home privileges too. And they wouldn't necessarily start their day at sunrise but it would typically be close. They might get there before sunrise to park, prep tools, etc. so they can start at first light. None of this really changes your main point though. 4:15AM does leave quite a bit of time before sunrise. The only other thing I could think of would be if they planned or regularly stopped for breakfast before work.

The question I have always wondered is, is this the route they took every day to go to work? Do they leave at the same time and go through this intersection at the same time every day? If not, why on this day? What was the route to get to 10th & Morton? Did they come down College and turn onto 10th or come straight down 10th? Where did they pick up the employee? I am still under the belief that the two trucks in the pictures they released are not the same truck.

 

[OldSteve]

As I've said before, and others have as well, the amount of construction going on is a huge concern for me. I have a hard time reconciling LS leaving JR's based on her alleged condition in the alley, but ... if she did leave somehow, and went the wrong way (toward a construction zone), could she have fallen into something and somehow been overlooked? Or could a manhole cover been off somewhere and she slipped thru? You'd like to think that someone would have manned up to that (no pun intended), but who knows? I almost had that happen on my son's campus one day.

A more likely scenario is that someone buried her in such a place and got lucky when construction continued before she was found. I don't recall if there was a moratorium on construction after disappearance or anything like that ...

Mention of construction has got me thinking .... we often surmise she may have perished by falling into an open pit... But, what if she was not feeling well and decided to rest or take shelter at a site (assuming there were some that weren't all that dangerous to do so in), she passes out or sleeps for a few hours and is then discovered by a worker who sees her in a vulnerable state and takes her...
Too late now, but would have to checked for any worker who checked in and then left, etc..
Okay - far fetched... but just thinking if she were walking an realized she was going to pass out and not able to make all the way to her apt., what would she do...

 

[Ixchel13]

The question I have always wondered is, is this the route they took every day to go to work? Do they leave at the same time and go through this intersection at the same time every day? If not, why on this day? What was the route to get to 10th & Morton? Did they come down College and turn onto 10th or come straight down 10th? Where did they pick up the employee? I am still under the belief that the two trucks in the pictures they released are not the same truck.

BBM yes exactly. We know that the driver of the white truck pictured has been cleared. So he/they may be off limits afa sleuthing.
But! the idea of two trucks is not far-fetched at all, and I believe allowable?
As we know from the Mickey Shunick case, in the case of there being two semi-identical trucks in the same area as the victim at the same time as the victim going missing, LE will most definitely purposely mislead the public by way of misleading the perp to get the results they desperately need.
Also in Mickey's case, there was another car, which iirc, the local cajun guy Chicken Fried did track down
because this car probably did witness something but wasn't coming forward or at least so it seemed. The car was relatively easy for him to find because it was distinctive.
In this case of two white trucks, many people here who were either experts or consulted with experts
debated whether they were one in the same. After it was decided they were NOT the same truck, then it was the make and model. The perp BSL panicked over all of the hoopla over the trucks, the entire town was talking about the trucks, one of which had been cleared. It was a little old lady at a truck sales place that gave the tip to the cops that someone was trying to purchase a truck like that...it was him.
So anyway DT, just wanted to agree that maybe there were two trucks.

 

[Ixchel13]

just had a weird thought. What if LE showed us pictures of two identical yet different trucks. One of them had Lauren in the back, one didn't. If LE said the driver of the truck had been cleared, they would be correct. If they said the driver of the truck was guilty, they could still be correct.
It's like the fox-chicken-corn across the lake riddle.
Theoretically, say you picked up someone for work in a company vehicle. Yet that person also was capable and did check out identical company vehicles too. No way of knowing how often they checked out vehicles, for what length of time, and more importantly, how rigorous the double checking was and if someone could change vehicles for a week or so. No way of knowing if they searched all of the trucks from that company or just that one.
Other concerns would be how often the vehicles are cleaned and with what materials.
Then there's the possibility that another identical truck from the same company was following the first truck. While we're at it, the maintenance vehicles from 10th and C also look just like that truck.

 

[ontheclock]

Interesting. Perhaps a multi-vehicle work crew?

 

[Vidocq]

...While we're at it, the maintenance vehicles from 10th and C also look just like that truck.

Interesting. Where do they park those? I spoke with someone who lived at T&C at the time of Lauren's disappearance. He was telling me how pervasive drugs were in the building. He said, "Even the maintenance men knew about it."

 

[imkeylime]

Mention of construction has got me thinking .... we often surmise she may have perished by falling into an open pit... But, what if she was not feeling well and decided to rest or take shelter at a site (assuming there were some that weren't all that dangerous to do so in), she passes out or sleeps for a few hours and is then discovered by a worker who sees her in a vulnerable state and takes her...
Too late now, but would have to checked for any worker who checked in and then left, etc..
Okay - far fetched... but just thinking if she were walking an realized she was going to pass out and not able to make all the way to her apt., what would she do...

That's an interesting thought. It addresses one of the things that has made me question random abduction. I've never thought there would be many pervs out at 4:15 am (could be wrong, of course). In the Hannah Graham case, for instance, I can see the suspect combing the bar scene looking for a vulnerable young woman. I can also see a perv waiting in an alley etc., for an opportunity. But 4:15 is late and random, IMO. Of course, 4:15 itself could be wrong, but I don't get why JR would insert himself and that time into the equation. ???

Although I still question her being able to do so, I have wondered if LS could have stumbled out of 5N to escape unwanted attention from one or more of the 5N guys. Maybe he/they got pissed that she wouldn't cooperate and gave her good riddance? If so, maybe she went the wrong way and hid? Of course, being found by someone else with bad intentions would be the worst luck ever. But who knows ...

 

[Ixchel13]

Interesting. Where do they park those? I spoke with someone who lived at T&C at the time of Lauren's disappearance. He was telling me how pervasive drugs were in the building. He said, "Even the maintenance men knew about it."

not being disrepectful when I say. BBM