IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[BeginnersLuck]

I get more confused every time I read a new article. This is a new video interview with the father. IMO, you have to read the article and watch the interview. There is different information in both.

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...er-says-his-family-s-death-not-murder-suicide

 

[marycarney]

I get more confused every time I read a new article. This is a new video interview with the father. IMO, you have to read the article and watch the interview. There is different information in both.

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...er-says-his-family-s-death-not-murder-suicide

What? Are you suggesting that the media might get the 'facts' wrong?? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

PS: Websleuths REALLY needs to add a sarcasm font.........

 

[The Cheese]

From the article just posted

Brandon was funny and outgoing, Clutter said. He’d started to show an interest in preaching by setting up a makeshift podium and using a miniature microphone they’d found for him at a dollar store. He’d read the Bible to the family cat, Butterscotch, Clutter said.

The baby, Katelyn, was “full of life.” She’d grin and wave at her parents, “and that melted my heart,” he said.

Rest in peace, Brandon and Katelyn. So sad.

 

[otto]

Not to mention the fact that the people who found them said on the 911 calls that mom's body appeared battered.

The 911 call did seem to have some comments about the condition in which she was found ... bloody/battered. Could that have happened if she was drowning her 10 year old son?

 

[otto]

Huh??

It is weird enough he may have stopped on his way to the police station, talked to cops about the deaths before it was declared a crime scene - I'm not saying this is a lie, the timing is just odd, but BBM does this sentence make sense to anyone?

I wondered what that meant too. I understood that he made some calls, couldn't locate his wife, immediately thought to report it to the police , but somehow spoke to his religious leader instead ... but then he saw police cars, stopped, heard the description and then he saw a photo ... and the people that found the bodies would have heard him scream?

That's sounds really odd.

Another point that doesn't make sense is ... why would he expect his wife to report everything she did to him? They had a 10 year old child so it wasn't like they were newlyweds that couldn't bear to be apart from each other. Didn't she have an independent life where she had her own activities and daily routines (outside of the home) with the children? Why would a woman report to her husband each time she left home? Was it a controlling relationship, or what?

 

[otto]

I am probably just being sensitive, but that is a weird statement, about how loudly he screamed.

At least he didn't fall "plumb to his knees."

 

[mrsu]

Westport Shipyards is his previous job in Washington State. Or else I'm misunderstanding your post. The article is confusing.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Westport+Shipyard&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=kgo&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=westport+shipyard+washington&oq=%22Westport+Shipyard&gs_l=serp.1.1.0l4.13002.13002.0.16029.1.1.0.0.0.0.103.103.0j1.1.0...0.0...1c..7.psy-ab.V63xiSg5IKo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.cGE&fp=633ecc7090072a73&biw=1121&bih=582

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/michael-clutter/44/612/a56?trk=pub-pbmap

Oh, I think you are correct. I misread the article as the grandfather speaking of them moving to Indiana.

 

[mrsu]

I wondered what that meant too. I understood that he made some calls, couldn't locate his wife, immediately thought to report it to the police , but somehow spoke to his religious leader instead ... but then he saw police cars, stopped, heard the description and then he saw a photo ... and the people that found the bodies would have heard him scream?

That's sounds really odd.

Another point that doesn't make sense is ... why would he expect his wife to report everything she did to him? They had a 10 year old child so it wasn't like they were newlyweds that couldn't bear to be apart from each other. Didn't she have an independent life where she had her own activities and daily routines (outside of the home) with the children? Why would a woman report to her husband each time she left home? Was it a controlling relationship, or what?

The thing that is most odd to me is that he comes home at 5 or 5:15pm and she's not there so he reports her missing around 5:30pm? That's just seems so odd to me. How did he know she wasn't out for a walk with the kids? In one of the first articles I believe it said that when he reported them missing and when they were found was about the same time. Another strange coincidence.

And this is probably inappropriate (absolutely don't mean to offend) but does anyone else's "gaydar" go off with the dad?

 

[otto]

Okay if she went there under her own power and her car was still at the apartment complex, why would she have taken the baby in the car seat? There have been no reports that a stroller was found. A car seat (if that's what it is) would be in a car that was used to take them to the creek. I think they were dead when they left the house. Who has a car seat? Someone with a baby. The average random murderer doesn't haul a car seat around.

I don't think there was a carseat anywhere ... and walking through the park, to the bridge, with a 10 year old and a six month old in a sling wouldn't be a big undertaking.

In the reports of a "baby harness", does that mean a "sling"? A baby sling and a Bible, set beside the creek, a pile of clothes and what ... a woman that would never go anywhere, even though she has a 10 year old son and her husband worked 10 hour days, without telling him what she was doing and where she was going ... to the extent that his arriving home after work, where she was not home, was cause to notify police?

A mother of two, aged 10 and 6 months, found face down in a frigid 12-18 inch deep creek ... children drowned nearby ... apparently committed suicide?

What was the name of that guy whose wife lived in a remote trailer with five pre-school children, born pretty much a year apart, and she was supposed to home school them? She drowned them in the bathtub ... several boys and then a daughter? She was convicted of murder based on an argument that she was imitating a Law and Order program ... but then it turned out that there never was a program like that.

That was a really creepy situation. The husband had a good income as a government scientist, but his family lived like gypsies in the woods ... his wife went nuts, murdered the children, was put away and he re-married. She wasn't able to commit suicide in the bathtub, even though she was religious and had just murdered all of the children.

 

[Bipolar Express]

I think that's the major point in looking at what he is saying. That always throws up a red flag for me. And, I don't believe in exact science anyway. Science give you facts, facts are interpreted in the context of the crime and of lab procedures (which is actually technology not science), etc. It's the sum of the evidence, circumstantial and physical, that leads to a suspect.

Don't you mean "week"? Lol

 

[Bipolar Express]

Also video of area and bridge in the link above. I think a car could have pulled right up to the area.

That's a very good point.

 

[Bipolar Express]

Don't you mean "week"? Lol

Nevermind Time, that was actually meant for the post you were quoting. It's late and my brain is numb.

 

[Bipolar Express]

Crud it was supposed to say "werk" anyway. Please ignore me.

 

[otto]

The thing that is most odd to me is that he comes home at 5 or 5:15pm and she's not there so he reports her missing around 5:30pm? That's just seems so odd to me. How did he know she wasn't out for a walk with the kids? In one of the first articles I believe it said that when he reported them missing and when they were found was about the same time. Another strange coincidence.

And this is probably inappropriate (absolutely don't mean to offend) but does anyone else's "gaydar" go off with the dad?

I see a man looking sideways when explaining what happened to his wife and children.

What's the story again ... his wife was a very religious woman and may have been experiencing port-partum depression, or maybe it was something new called post partum psychosis (along the lines of women going nuts because they gave birth), so she walked to the park with her aged 10 years and 6 months children, stripped them naked, murdered them in the shallow, shivering creek (didn't think of the bathtub, not even for the 6 month old), stripped naked herself and then committed suicide in 12-18 inches of water ... and managed to get bloody cuts and battering injuries to her body? She flailed during her toxic drug induced suicide in water? This seems almost preposterous.

Thoughts on why the only living family member is looking sideways, to the left, when answering questions?
Family annihilators sometimes murder because they are unable to live up to the claims they make, or provide for their family (Neil Entwhistle ... promised the world and couldn't deliver).

What exactly is this man's story? Was his wife working before they moved ... who provided for the family before the move if he was out of work for 2 years? Shipyard work doesn't exactly sound like 2 years of laid off income. Did she quit her job to move and was he isolating his wife? What was the name of that guy that murdered his wife and then blew up the house with his children in it ... it strikes me a bit like this case ... another family annihilator.

 

[otto]

He seems really creepy. I cannot believe that it would be considered an open and shut case of a woman murdering her 10 year old and 6 month old in a nearby, freezing water creek, and then committing suicide in 12-18 inches of water.

How does someone commit suicide in 12 inches of water again? I really don't see how this is a possibility. I also fail to understand how giving birth could cause "PPP" and post-birth "psychosis". This woman was apparently not nuts before she gave birth, so how could giving birth cause a psychosis? Childbirth does not cause psychosis ... it's a normal bodily function that does not effect the brain ... childbirth does not cause psychosis in animals either. This post partum psychosis seems to be made-up ... because women do not develop psychosis from giving birth (sounds like a 1950s psychology theory that has long been abandoned).

 

[katydid23]

He seems really creepy. I cannot believe that it would be considered an open and shut case of a woman murdering her 10 year old and 6 month old in a nearby, freezing water creek, and then committing suicide in 12-18 inches of water.

How does someone commit suicide in 12 inches of water again? I really don't see how this is a possibility. I also fail to understand how giving birth could cause "PPP" and post-birth "psychosis". This woman was apparently not nuts before she gave birth, so how could giving birth cause a psychosis? Childbirth does not cause psychosis ... it's a normal bodily function that does not effect the brain ... childbirth does not cause psychosis in animals either. This post partum psychosis seems to be made-up ... because women do not develop psychosis from giving birth (sounds like a 1950s psychology theory that has long been abandoned).

I think that is what Paula Yates was diagnosed with---the woman who drowned her 5 kids in the tub, then called the cops and sat and waited for them. She was very religious as well. But she was 'mentally ill' and needed help and her husband ignored that urgent fact.

 

[MsFacetious]

He seems really creepy. I cannot believe that it would be considered an open and shut case of a woman murdering her 10 year old and 6 month old in a nearby, freezing water creek, and then committing suicide in 12-18 inches of water.

How does someone commit suicide in 12 inches of water again? I really don't see how this is a possibility. I also fail to understand how giving birth could cause "PPP" and post-birth "psychosis". This woman was apparently not nuts before she gave birth, so how could giving birth cause a psychosis? Childbirth does not cause psychosis ... it's a normal bodily function that does not effect the brain ... childbirth does not cause psychosis in animals either. This post partum psychosis seems to be made-up ... because women do not develop psychosis from giving birth (sounds like a 1950s psychology theory that has long been abandoned).

Postpartum psychosis has been documented since BEFORE the 1950's and has NOT been abandoned.

We have members here on Websleuths who have personally experienced postpartum psychosis.
I have read their heartbreaking stories and been SO grateful that someone saw they were in trouble and got them help.

Not everyone is so fortunate. Look at Andrea Yates. The red flags and warnings were completely disregarded.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...and-lives-with-herself-a-decade-later/254302/

The hormonal changes that you go through when you give birth can cause depression... OR psychosis.
It isn't that it alters your brain. The hormones are incredible and can do a lot of things to a woman.

There are documented cases of mothers killing themselves and/or their kids... that were clear PPP/PPD cases.

http://www.postpartum.net/Get-the-Facts/Postpartum-Psychosis.aspx

I don't have any idea if the mother in this case had PPD or PPP. I do know that if she did, she wouldn't be the first.
IF she did, she wouldn't be the first who either hid it well or had a husband who ignored the problem.

I also know that postpartum psychosis is very serious and potentially life threatening.
Dismissing a diagnosis that serious as "an abandoned theory" is disrespectful and uncalled for. :twocents:

All just MY opinion. :twocents:

 

[marycarney]

PP Psychosis is a very REAL (RARE, BUT REAL NONETHELESS) disorder. I worked inpatient psych many years ago, and we had a woman who experienced it not once but twice.

Tried to kill her husband. Completely out of touch with reality. She got ECT treatments and recovered. Ran into her years later - completely fine.

Another friend had it as well. Once. No recurrence of anything psych related- she's a math teacher today.

 

[MizStery]

A baby harness and Bible were found nearby ... weren't the clothes also found nearby? I suppose that the mom could have told the boy that he was going to be baptised and then drowned him. Drowning an infant would have happened second, but suicide by drowning seems so unusual. Could a psychotic person fight the instinct to breath in 12 inches of water? It seems so strange, but that would be the only logical explanation barring a fourth party murdering the family ... which is what family annihilators do.

I live in Washington State. On the way to Long Beach,WA where we frequently vacation we pass by Aberdeen. It has been economically decimated *by the the downturn in the logging industry and weak demand for marine manufacturing.This family especially touched me because it appeared they were getting financially on their feet from a very difficult lay off in the shipyard.

I am not sure if this has already been posted..but I read an article that describes their clothing as strewn. Strewn clothing and the babies harness in the tree with a bible leaves me totally bewildered,sad and aware of how homesick she might be in Indianna.
Here is the quote and link( to one of the community papers for Aberdeen):

"The coroner indicated the children likely died between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. Wednesday. All three were naked when discovered, their clothing strewn nearby and a Bible sitting in a baby harness hanging from a tree. The weather that day was in the 30-degree range."


http://thedailyworld.com/sections/news/local/coroner-former-aberdeen-children-drown-mother’s-cause-death-unknown.html

 

[time]

I wondered what that meant too. I understood that he made some calls, couldn't locate his wife, immediately thought to report it to the police , but somehow spoke to his religious leader instead ... but then he saw police cars, stopped, heard the description and then he saw a photo ... and the people that found the bodies would have heard him scream?

That's sounds really odd.

Another point that doesn't make sense is ... why would he expect his wife to report everything she did to him? They had a 10 year old child so it wasn't like they were newlyweds that couldn't bear to be apart from each other. Didn't she have an independent life where she had her own activities and daily routines (outside of the home) with the children? Why would a woman report to her husband each time she left home? Was it a controlling relationship, or what?

I'm trying to follow~!~

And, trying to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, but it all just isn't gel for me. If she did report when she left the house to him, how come he wasn't worried earlier in the day? If they died later in the day then wouldn't he have had some contact with her during the day?

I don't know, of course couple all do things differently. I talk with hubby at least at noon every day for a few minutes.... and we don't have kids.

Did Michael say he tried to call her, even on the way home or anything?