IN IN - Paul Raymond Harrod May Have Been Using False Identity - Hamilton County - 27 Nov 1992 #2

[Andreee]

By the way, seasons greetings to our resident detective CyresAres1 who we were offering to head to Alaska with in search of a 'hot lead' to fake PRH about a year ago! Let's hope 2024 is the year we track this guy down

 

[Laughing]

I see a resemblance, but then again if you've read through the thread -- yeah I see a resemblance to Not-Paul rather often. Submit, an let an agency with good facial recognition software have a go!

Who remembers the detective's username? I am stuck, can't get past a former Indiana department store chain -- L. S. Ayres!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Andreee]

I see a resemblance, but then again if you've read through the thread -- yeah I see a resemblance to Not-Paul rather often. Submit, an let an agency with good facial recognition software have a go!

Who remembers the detective's username? I am stuck, can't get past a former Indiana department store chain -- L. S. Ayres!

jmho ymmv lrr

CyresAres1 aka Detective Lockhart

 

[Laughing]

@CyresAres1 , we're hoping you have time to pop in here....

 

[lonewanderer]

I think there is a resemblance. It would fit with him claiming New York and Italian origins. Robert's father was Italian, but his mother didn't have an Italian last name (though she may have had Italian blood, I didn't look into it). This would fit in some ways with Paul, who said his mother was Italian, despite the real Paul's mother not being so. Paul was basically claiming to be half Italian, which Robert probably was. Also, Robert's father had a sister named Margaret, which Paul claimed was his mother's name, although that wasn't the real Paul's mother's name.

I didn't extensively look into the circumstances of Robert's disappearance, if the information is findable online. I probably will, though. As for the possible Philly accent Paul may have had, it's interesting to note Lori Ruff, another well known case of someone else using a dead child's identity, actually was from Philadelphia, but nobody ever mentioned her accent pointing to origins there, if I recall.

I have noticed that many of the identity theft people have a couple of things in common. Lori Ruff, Joseph Newton Chandler, Paul Harrod, Kimberly Kessler all stole identities of deceased children. IIRC, each of these people also changed their identities at least two times.

For lack of better words, they were most weirdos. Paul Harrod's description is just kinda weird. The head bandage thing, box of "stuff", Chandler with his many weird things including driving hundreds of miles to an outlet just to turn around due to "no parking", Ruff with her well documented weirdness, Kessler with some truly bizarre claims against her such as eating raw ground beef with her hands.

I have noticed that in nearly every one of these cases, Florida was a state involved. I haven't heard that in Paul's case, but it makes me wonder if he has some kind of ties to the state.

I have yet to see a male stolen identity case that did not involve a stint in the military.

 

[lonewanderer]

I think there is a resemblance. It would fit with him claiming New York and Italian origins. Robert's father was Italian, but his mother didn't have an Italian last name (though she may have had Italian blood, I didn't look into it). This would fit in some ways with Paul, who said his mother was Italian, despite the real Paul's mother not being so. Paul was basically claiming to be half Italian, which Robert probably was. Also, Robert's father had a sister named Margaret, which Paul claimed was his mother's name, although that wasn't the real Paul's mother's name.

I didn't extensively look into the circumstances of Robert's disappearance, if the information is findable online. I probably will, though. As for the possible Philly accent Paul may have had, it's interesting to note Lori Ruff, another well known case of someone else using a dead child's identity, actually was from Philadelphia, but nobody ever mentioned her accent pointing to origins there, if I recall.

I noticed the man in the pic was wearing several pieces of jewelry, and Paul was known not to.

I also think the man in the pic has a "weathered" look, which I would imagine was from smoking and/or drinking, which Paul also did not do.

I will have to brush up on it, but it does seem like some of the identity theft people changed their personalities quite a bit after changing names.

 

[ifindedout]

@CyresAres1 , we're hoping you have time to pop in here....

IMO, he's not currently active here. The method I use to make sure a member from an old (or not-so-old, as is the case here) post is still active is to begin typing their name in the Recipient field in a conversation, and username suggestions will incrementally appear like they do in search fields. His doesn't appear at all, even when you finish typing out his handle.

 

[lonewanderer]

Could this possibly be Diane Rae?

Born in Meade, Kansas and lived in Dodge City for 40 years.

Obituary for Diane Rae Butler at Ziegler Funeral Chapel - Dodge City

DODGE CITY- Diane Rae Butler, 83, died Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at her home. She was born March 30, 1940 in Meade, Kansas, the daughter of Joe and Doris Hantla Copple. She was graduate of Meade High School. Later in life she moved to Dodge City and was a resident

www.zieglerfuneralchapel.com

Interestingly, her daughter's name is Renee Harrod.

 

[Rush4087]

What happened to Megs1477? I hope you are okay. You will be missed

 

[Andreee]

IMO, he's not currently active here. The method I use to make sure a member from an old (or not-so-old, as is the case here) post is still active is to begin typing their name in the Recipient field in a conversation, and username suggestions will incrementally appear like they do in search fields. His doesn't appear at all, even when you finish typing out his handle.

He does pop in from time to time but he hasn't lately.

 

[lonewanderer]

Some things are just not adding up for me.

FPs (second) wife did a lot of things that did not make any sense.

Why did she destroy all his things when he left? Why did she wait so long to report him missing?

Why are there only pictures of him on his wedding day and only one of him (extremely conveniently) on the day he disappeared?

Why is everything so seemingly hush-hush on the WhoIsPRh website? Why didn't the website name his second wife, and why does it seem like his first wife is so mysterious? Surely there is some kind of public record?

His employment record is unique. Why did he take so many jobs that allowed him to move from place to place while on the job? Takeout driver, deliver driver, paper delivery.

Why did he always seem to take really low paying jobs?

If he had a divorce date in 1985, with a divorce number, listed on a marriage license, then how/why did he apply for a SSN in 1987?

Just some observations and things that make me think.

 

[Laughing]

Could this possibly be Diane Rae?

Born in Meade, Kansas and lived in Dodge City for 40 years.

Obituary for Diane Rae Butler at Ziegler Funeral Chapel - Dodge City

DODGE CITY- Diane Rae Butler, 83, died Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at her home. She was born March 30, 1940 in Meade, Kansas, the daughter of Joe and Doris Hantla Copple. She was graduate of Meade High School. Later in life she moved to Dodge City and was a resident

www.zieglerfuneralchapel.com

Interestingly, her daughter's name is Renee Harrod.

Interesting!

idk, but thought they lived in Wichita? That's about 2 1/2 hours from Dodge City per GoogleMaps.

McConnell Air Force Base is in Wichita, for those of us who think the Air Force claim is likely based in fact -- enlisted or contractor.

Of course, if the person writing the obit didn't know about Not-Paul, or didn't like Not-Paul, maybe that was left out? Or if there is fee set by number of words!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Andreee]

Could this possibly be Diane Rae?

Born in Meade, Kansas and lived in Dodge City for 40 years.

Obituary for Diane Rae Butler at Ziegler Funeral Chapel - Dodge City

DODGE CITY- Diane Rae Butler, 83, died Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at her home. She was born March 30, 1940 in Meade, Kansas, the daughter of Joe and Doris Hantla Copple. She was graduate of Meade High School. Later in life she moved to Dodge City and was a resident

www.zieglerfuneralchapel.com

Interestingly, her daughter's name is Renee Harrod.

How bizarre re. the last name being Harrod! I believe we have narrowed down the Diane Rae in the past on this thread but I can't recall all the info as this mystery has so many twists and turns.

 

[lonewanderer]

How bizarre re. the last name being Harrod! I believe we have narrowed down the Diane Rae in the past on this thread but I can't recall all the info as this mystery has so many twists and turns.

I personally think there is way too many goofy angles to not consider his second wife as an accomplice of some kind.

I posted about it a few posts up, but a lot of things she has said or done just seem to make me question her.

I don't think its impossible that he explained his situation to her in (mostly) full honesty and she assisted him with disappearing.

 

[Grungster]

I personally think there is way too many goofy angles to not consider his second wife as an accomplice of some kind.

I posted about it a few posts up, but a lot of things she has said or done just seem to make me question her.

I don't think its impossible that he explained his situation to her in (mostly) full honesty and she assisted him with disappearing.

Please leave her alone. She doesn't know anything. She was in near tears talking about this. His disappearance greatly affected her. She didn't even know PRH was an alias until the investigation was reopened in c. 2012 and the detective found out. She knows nothing.

 

[lonewanderer]

Please leave her alone. She doesn't know anything. She was in near tears talking about this. His disappearance greatly affected her. She didn't even know PRH was an alias until the investigation was reopened in c. 2012 and the detective found out. She knows nothing.

I was not aware of this, thank you for informing me!

Knowing this now, is there anything else I can learn to help her find out who he is?

 

[Andreee]

Please leave her alone. She doesn't know anything. She was in near tears talking about this. His disappearance greatly affected her. She didn't even know PRH was an alias until the investigation was reopened in c. 2012 and the detective found out. She knows nothing.

You are absolutely right. If the previous poster would read the beginning of this whole thread, and posts by the detective himself, it is very evident that M is a victim of fake PRH.

 

[Andreee]

I was not aware of this, thank you for informing me!

Knowing this now, is there anything else I can learn to help her find out who he is?

This case has been turned inside out and researched online not only here but by a university or college criminal studies class; and of course by Detective Lockhart who is still in active duty but also wants to find fake PRH's real identity. He has even gone to the town where PRH and M. lived, conducted a search warrant at their house, etcetcetc and also used LE avenues to try and solve this mystery. Not sure what else is to be done at present! Maybe read back to beginning of thread. All ideas welcomed.

 

[lonewanderer]

Please leave her alone. She doesn't know anything. She was in near tears talking about this. His disappearance greatly affected her. She didn't even know PRH was an alias until the investigation was reopened in c. 2012 and the detective found out. She knows nothing.

You are absolutely right. If the previous poster would read the beginning of this whole thread, and posts by the detective himself, it is very evident that M is a victim of fake PRH.

This case has been turned inside out and researched online not only here but by a university or college criminal studies class; and of course by Detective Lockhart who is still in active duty but also wants to find fake PRH's real identity. He has even gone to the town where PRH and M. lived, conducted a search warrant at their house, etcetcetc and also used LE avenues to try and solve this mystery. Not sure what else is to be done at present! Maybe read back to beginning of thread. All ideas welcomed.

My apologies to all,

I would never intentionally raise eyebrows at an established victim.

Thanks for informing me! I am new to this case and it has really caught my attention, and would love to help in any way I can. I am most certainly an armature, but love learning new things and unravelling puzzles.

Has the Air Force bas in Greenland angle been explored? Based on previous cases, I am going to assume that it is likely that fake Paul changed his named shortly after his military service.

This would potentially place him in Greenland in between 1965-1975 (assuming his birthdate was 1945).

Lots of assumptions, I know, but there was stationed Airmen there around those times:

"Aerospace defense​

In 1957 construction began on 4 Nike Missile sites around the base, and they and their radar systems were operational by the end of 1958.

In 1961, a Ballistic Missile Early Warning System (BMEWS) radar was constructed at "J-Site," 21 km (13 mi) northeast of main base. BMEWS was developed by the Raytheon Corporation in order to provide North America warning of a transpolar missile attack from the Russian mainland and submarine-launched missiles from the Arctic and North Atlantic oceans. At this time, Thule was at its peak with a population of about 10,000. Starting in July 1965, there was a general downsizing of activities at Thule. The base host unit was discontinueded. By January 1968, the population of Thule was down to 3,370. On 21 January 1968, a B-52G bomber carrying four nuclear weapons crashed just outside Thule – see below.

Thule is the location where the fastest recorded sea level surface wind speed in the world was measured when a peak speed of 333 kilometres per hour (207 mph) was recorded on 8 March 1972 prior to the instrument's destruction.[5][6]"

Link: Thule Air Base

One thing I get hung up on is looking at patterns. Sometimes this works well for me, and sometimes this is just a wild goose chase.

Some of the patterns I mentioned a few posts about are Florida, military service, and extremely odd behavior. One theory I have heard before is that many of them suffer from a form of disassociation disorder.

Based off previous cases, I would venture to guess it is extremely likely that he also used another deceased child's identity at least once before he changed his actual name and to when he changed his name to Paul Harrod.

I will take a look at the threads to make sure I am not just offering up a baseless opinion, or one thats been rehashed repeatedly.

 

[Andreee]

My apologies to all,

I would never intentionally raise eyebrows at an established victim.

Thanks for informing me! I am new to this case and it has really caught my attention, and would love to help in any way I can. I am most certainly an armature, but love learning new things and unravelling puzzles.

Has the Air Force bas in Greenland angle been explored? Based on previous cases, I am going to assume that it is likely that fake Paul changed his named shortly after his military service.

This would potentially place him in Greenland in between 1965-1975 (assuming his birthdate was 1945).

Lots of assumptions, I know, but there was stationed Airmen there around those times:

"Aerospace defense​

In 1957 construction began on 4 Nike Missile sites around the base, and they and their radar systems were operational by the end of 1958.

In 1961, a Ballistic Missile Early Warning System (BMEWS) radar was constructed at "J-Site," 21 km (13 mi) northeast of main base. BMEWS was developed by the Raytheon Corporation in order to provide North America warning of a transpolar missile attack from the Russian mainland and submarine-launched missiles from the Arctic and North Atlantic oceans. At this time, Thule was at its peak with a population of about 10,000. Starting in July 1965, there was a general downsizing of activities at Thule. The base host unit was discontinueded. By January 1968, the population of Thule was down to 3,370. On 21 January 1968, a B-52G bomber carrying four nuclear weapons crashed just outside Thule – see below.

Thule is the location where the fastest recorded sea level surface wind speed in the world was measured when a peak speed of 333 kilometres per hour (207 mph) was recorded on 8 March 1972 prior to the instrument's destruction.[5][6]"

Link: Thule Air Base

One thing I get hung up on is looking at patterns. Sometimes this works well for me, and sometimes this is just a wild goose chase.

Some of the patterns I mentioned a few posts about are Florida, military service, and extremely odd behavior. One theory I have heard before is that many of them suffer from a form of disassociation disorder.

Based off previous cases, I would venture to guess it is extremely likely that he also used another deceased child's identity at least once before he changed his actual name and to when he changed his name to Paul Harrod.

I will take a look at the threads to make sure I am not just offering up a baseless opinion, or one thats been rehashed repeatedly.

Thanks for your interest in this case and rehashing is always fine and any other things you think of! It is worthwhile to read through the interesting things posters here have come up with. Yes the Greenland avenue has been looked at closely as have so many other ideas. It has really been a wild ride. Hint: check out the great lead to Alaska awhile back by Detective Lockhart! We were sure that was it and we joked about heading 'north to Alaska' with our good detectiveThen there was the prospect in Florida lol. We really went down the exhaustive rabbit hole with that! Anyways it makes for fascinating reading!