GUILTY IN - Ryan Martin, 29, murdered in suspect Talmadge Jasper's home, Lafayette, 23 May 2019

[Boxer]

What does MHB mean? Why would Delphi and Flora need to know his mental health records? Not sure what the pizzeria would have to do with TJ?

Drugs

 

[Purduegirl12]

Drugs

So is it your opinion that TJ was somehow associated with the pizzeria? Like he was involved with what was going on when it came to the drugs?

 

[Boxer]

My Opinion Only is Delphi and Flora should really want to know if drugs were involved in TJs MH. The Flora pizzeria, being run by a drug dealing child molester is only 8 miles away from TJs home and MHB.

Sounds like a county overrun with drugs.
I would doubt that mental illness alone what account for TJ's behavior.

 

[Purduegirl12]

My Opinion Only is Delphi and Flora should really want to know if drugs were involved in TJs MH. The Flora pizzeria, being run by a drug dealing child molester is only 8 miles away from TJs home and MHB.

Sounds like a county overrun with drugs.
I would doubt that mental illness alone what account for TJ's behavior.

I'm just confused on why Delphi or Flora would want to know if drugs were involved in his MH. Not being crappy so please don't take it that way. But the crime was in another county. You have problems with drugs and crime everywhere. So not sure what your meaning.

 

[Boxer]

I'm just confused on why Delphi or Flora would want to know if drugs were involved in his MH. Not being crappy so please don't take it that way. But the crime was in another county. You have problems with drugs and crime everywhere. So not sure what your meaning.

MOO TJ started using drugs junior year when his behavior changed.

 

[tresir2012]

I'm just confused on why Delphi or Flora would want to know if drugs were involved in his MH. Not being crappy so please don't take it that way. But the crime was in another county. You have problems with drugs and crime everywhere. So not sure what your meaning.

TJ is from Delphi. The court has asked for his prior Mental Health records indicating he had problems before this murder happened IMO. CaCo has a drug dealing problem and Boxer is suggesting CaCo may therefore be interested if TJ's problems were caused by drugs. I think that this MHB (Mental Health Breakdown ) may have been due to drugs. MHB also stands for Monon High Bridge, where we have an unsolved double murder with unknown motive, that some of us are keeping in the back of our minds also.

 

[Vaccine]

I have read most but not all of this thread so I may have missed a few things. It is a very messy case in one sense - the background and links between the main characters - and not in others, its pretty clear who carried out the crime.

I personally think the motive was jealousy. If TJ has a protective order against him there must have been cause for it to be believed that he was a risk to Skylar, and that he had been stalking or harrassing her after the break up. He didn't accept her decision. I therefore do not think that just because he had a new girlfriend that means that he was over his obsession. (Other cases have shown murderers of their exes to have started new relationships but still harbouring an obsessive grudge). Both his relationship with his girlfriend and that of Skylar and Ryan seem pretty recent. Indeed his continuing proximity to her life via working with her new boyfriend probably prevented him from 'moving on' and kept the obsession and grudge alive.

Of course it is quite hard to understand that proximity. If both Skylar and TJ moved away from the original area its strange that they ended up so near to each other. Since Ryan had lived in his property for some time and Skylar moved in with him, I think it likely TJ moved there to be close to her rather than her knowingly making that move. The fact that he then was working with her new boyfriend is clearly the gunpowder that made this case blow up. She must have been very uncomfortable about that - even if Ryan wasn't. (The truth is we don't know what he thought about it).

The things that are particularly perplexing me are as follows:
- Why did RM go to TJ's house? At first when I read about the case I thought he must have gone there to warn off TJ in a man to man way. Now as the thread has developed it has been suggested they were sharing lifts or other drugs related enterprises. I'm not sure if there is evidence for that or whether it is speculation at this point.
- By TJ asking his girlfriend and her friend to leave early so he could have RM round he clearly communicated to them (and now the world) pre-meditation. Beyond the surprise that anyone would think that was a reasonable request and accede to it, it was also pretty stupid - surely he could have worked out the signal it would have given of this being a premeditated plan? I am surprised he wouldn't have realised the impact of that when he was planning this attack.
- Returning the car. I generally buy the suggestion that TJ returned the car to RM's in the hope that when he was reported missing the search would start there not at his house. (Though his communication of intent to have RM come to his apartment to his girlfriend would have undermined that hope pretty quickly - surely she would have made the connection - 'hey wasnt that the guy you invited round here?'). However I am surprised that he managed to gain entry to the property or garage and Skylar saw him but he didn't see her. I am also surprised if he had Ryan's keys and was motivated by jealousy why he didn't proceed into the house and do harm to her - in his mind the cause of all of this (not victim blaming - she didn't deserve any of this). Maybe he presumed she wasn't there and was at work? Maybe he didn't see her car? (I dont know if she has a car - just guessing....)
- Covering up the crime. One possible explanation for why he didn't go ahead and attack Skylar right there and then was his need to return home to clear up the evidence. That could have been plausible. However, we now know he made no attempt to clear up other than dumping Ryan's body in a cupboard with the sofa cushions. If the crime was pre-mediated its very hard to understand why TJ had not planned how to dispose of the body. Apparently according to this board he didn't have a car and lived in quite a busy apartment complex. How on earth did he think he was going to get rid of the body?
- Inviting the girlfriend and friend straight back into the house. Again, this is very odd. If he moved the car to buy time before his victim's disappearance was reported it is odd he didn't take advantage of that time window. When you have just committed such a serious crime and have a dead body in your house it is quite peculiar that you don't seem to have plans to remove the body and clear up the scene. There could well have been other blood spatters apart from on the cushions, a weapon to dispose of, the clothes he was wearing to clean or dispose of. (I dont think we have heard what other evidence LE may have found at the scene ?). Unless he thought he could get his girlfriend to help him dispose of the body (which is a very big ask - not many girlfriends would agree to that and there would be a serious risk that she or her friend would instead go straight to LE) it really was an odd way to behave.

I am not making these points to argue against TJ being guilty, that the motive was jealousy or that he should indeed successfully make the case for insanity. But I guess I am raising the case for stupidity. And of course evil intent.

All MOO. Very sad for Ryan and his child.

 

[Boxer]

I have read most but not all of this thread so I may have missed a few things. It is a very messy case in one sense - the background and links between the main characters - and not in others, its pretty clear who carried out the crime.

I personally think the motive was jealousy. If TJ has a protective order against him there must have been cause for it to be believed that he was a risk to Skylar, and that he had been stalking or harrassing her after the break up. He didn't accept her decision. I therefore do not think that just because he had a new girlfriend that means that he was over his obsession. (Other cases have shown murderers of their exes to have started new relationships but still harbouring an obsessive grudge). Both his relationship with his girlfriend and that of Skylar and Ryan seem pretty recent. Indeed his continuing proximity to her life via working with her new boyfriend probably prevented him from 'moving on' and kept the obsession and grudge alive.

Of course it is quite hard to understand that proximity. If both Skylar and TJ moved away from the original area its strange that they ended up so near to each other. Since Ryan had lived in his property for some time and Skylar moved in with him, I think it likely TJ moved there to be close to her rather than her knowingly making that move. The fact that he then was working with her new boyfriend is clearly the gunpowder that made this case blow up. She must have been very uncomfortable about that - even if Ryan wasn't. (The truth is we don't know what he thought about it).

The things that are particularly perplexing me are as follows:
- Why did RM go to TJ's house? At first when I read about the case I thought he must have gone there to warn off TJ in a man to man way. Now as the thread has developed it has been suggested they were sharing lifts or other drugs related enterprises. I'm not sure if there is evidence for that or whether it is speculation at this point.
- By TJ asking his girlfriend and her friend to leave early so he could have RM round he clearly communicated to them (and now the world) pre-meditation. Beyond the surprise that anyone would think that was a reasonable request and accede to it, it was also pretty stupid - surely he could have worked out the signal it would have given of this being a premeditated plan? I am surprised he wouldn't have realised the impact of that when he was planning this attack.
- Returning the car. I generally buy the suggestion that TJ returned the car to RM's in the hope that when he was reported missing the search would start there not at his house. (Though his communication of intent to have RM come to his apartment to his girlfriend would have undermined that hope pretty quickly - surely she would have made the connection - 'hey wasnt that the guy you invited round here?'). However I am surprised that he managed to gain entry to the property or garage and Skylar saw him but he didn't see her. I am also surprised if he had Ryan's keys and was motivated by jealousy why he didn't proceed into the house and do harm to her - in his mind the cause of all of this (not victim blaming - she didn't deserve any of this). Maybe he presumed she wasn't there and was at work? Maybe he didn't see her car? (I dont know if she has a car - just guessing....)
- Covering up the crime. One possible explanation for why he didn't go ahead and attack Skylar right there and then was his need to return home to clear up the evidence. That could have been plausible. However, we now know he made no attempt to clear up other than dumping Ryan's body in a cupboard with the sofa cushions. If the crime was pre-mediated its very hard to understand why TJ had not planned how to dispose of the body. Apparently according to this board he didn't have a car and lived in quite a busy apartment complex. How on earth did he think he was going to get rid of the body?
- Inviting the girlfriend and friend straight back into the house. Again, this is very odd. If he moved the car to buy time before his victim's disappearance was reported it is odd he didn't take advantage of that time window. When you have just committed such a serious crime and have a dead body in your house it is quite peculiar that you don't seem to have plans to remove the body and clear up the scene. There could well have been other blood spatters apart from on the cushions, a weapon to dispose of, the clothes he was wearing to clean or dispose of. (I dont think we have heard what other evidence LE may have found at the scene ?). Unless he thought he could get his girlfriend to help him dispose of the body (which is a very big ask - not many girlfriends would agree to that and there would be a serious risk that she or her friend would instead go straight to LE) it really was an odd way to behave.

I am not making these points to argue against TJ being guilty, that the motive was jealousy or that he should indeed successfully make the case for insanity. But I guess I am raising the case for stupidity. And of course evil intent.

All MOO. Very sad for Ryan and his child.

All good points.

MOO Personally don't think TJ thought he was going to kill Ryan before they got into his apartment, I still think it is still "murder one" because he decided to kill once they were inside, and he killed in a prolonged fashion.

MOO TJ could have easily asked the girls to leave in order to have a private conversation.
Then invited them back to keep on track and apparently normal.
MOO again I think once he killed Ryan he went on a campaign to cover it up.
I think as a very smart person, he realized where the police started their search and when was crucial to giving him time and deniabilty.
I don't think that he knew he was seen by SR at Ryan's house and that is how the police became suspicious when they came to his apartment and asked him about where Ryan was and when he left.
Kudos to the LPD.

I do think TJ planned to move the body in the early hours of the night since Pheasant Run is one of those busy apartment complexes not suitable for being discreet about something in the daytime.

 

[Vaccine]

All good points.

MOO Personally don't think TJ thought he was going to kill Ryan before they got into his apartment, I still think it is still "murder one" because he decided to kill once they were inside, and he killed in a prolonged fashion.

MOO TJ could have easily asked the girls to leave in order to have a private conversation.
Then invited them back to keep on track and apparently normal.

MOO again I think once he killed Ryan he went on a campaign to cover it up.
I think as a very smart person, he realized where the police started their search and when was crucial to giving him time and deniabilty.
I don't think that he knew he was seen by SR at Ryan's house and that is how the police became suspicious when they came to his apartment and asked him about where Ryan was and when he left.
Kudos to the LPD.

I do think TJ planned to move the body in the early hours of the night since Pheasant Run is one of those busy apartment complexes not suitable for being discreet about something in the daytime.

Interesting - so you think they had other joint enterprise or reasons to be meeting? It is really hard to work out why Ryan would want to be friendly with TJ and what Skylar thought about it.

And that they argued or TJ became angry and he just happened to have to hand the murder weapons - a blunt instrument to hit RM over the head with and a ligature - to catch him off guard? I guess he would only need the blunt instrument at hand to be a surprise - once he'd incapacitated him he could have got a ligature to finish him off. Maybe a heavy lamp base and flex would have done both jobs? Deeply sorry everyone for the graphic details.

Even if he did plan to get the body out after dark its hard to imagine how. He'd need the girlfriend and friend to be out of the way and some sort of vehicle to move the body? Shifting it on his own. Unless of course he was going to dig a hole in the garden? Still very risky in an apartment block.

 

[Boxer]

Interesting - so you think they had other joint enterprise or reasons to be meeting? It is really hard to work out why Ryan would want to be friendly with TJ and what Skylar thought about it.

And that they argued or TJ became angry and he just happened to have to hand the murder weapons - a blunt instrument to hit RM over the head with and a ligature - to catch him off guard? I guess he would only need the blunt instrument at hand to be a surprise - once he'd incapacitated him he could have got a ligature to finish him off. Maybe a heavy lamp base and flex would have done both jobs? Deeply sorry everyone for the graphic details.

Even if he did plan to get the body out after dark its hard to imagine how. He'd need the girlfriend and friend to be out of the way and some sort of vehicle to move the body? Shifting it on his own. Unless of course he was going to dig a hole in the garden? Still very risky in an apartment block.

MOO the details of his plan are hard to say.
But to me he has a notable dispatch and creativity on carrying things out. I assume he had a car, he had one in Delphi.
MOO driving with RM was about by-passing RMs restricted ignition due to DWI's I think.

TJ was able to get RM from the living room to the bedroom closet about 12 feet, so I would believe given a few hours TJ could get RM into a car without help.

 

[Purduegirl12]

TJ is from Delphi. The court has asked for his prior Mental Health records indicating he had problems before this murder happened IMO. CaCo has a drug dealing problem and Boxer is suggesting CaCo may therefore be interested if TJ's problems were caused by drugs. I think that this MHB (Mental Health Breakdown ) may have been due to drugs. MHB also stands for Monon High Bridge, where we have an unsolved double murder with unknown motive, that some of us are keeping in the back of our minds also.

I see now. Thanks for breaking it down. Moo they are asking for mental health records due to TJs lawyer filing motions to get him evaluated for mental health. In moo he doesn't look anything like the bridge guy. But anytime someone is arrest anywhere close to Delphi people go straight for thinking they are bridge guy.

 

[Boxer]

I see now. Thanks for breaking it down. Moo they are asking for mental health records due to TJs lawyer filing motions to get him evaluated for mental health. In moo he doesn't look anything like the bridge guy. But anytime someone is arrest anywhere close to Delphi people go straight for thinking they are bridge guy.

Just MOO MOO MOO.
It seems like every man in Delphi looks a lot like either the sketch or the guy in the video.
So that it is almost useless. And, I believe you are correct, that every arrested male is probably scrutinized for a match, especially if for murder.

 

[Purduegirl12]

I have read most but not all of this thread so I may have missed a few things. It is a very messy case in one sense - the background and links between the main characters - and not in others, its pretty clear who carried out the crime.

I personally think the motive was jealousy. If TJ has a protective order against him there must have been cause for it to be believed that he was a risk to Skylar, and that he had been stalking or harrassing her after the break up. He didn't accept her decision. I therefore do not think that just because he had a new girlfriend that means that he was over his obsession. (Other cases have shown murderers of their exes to have started new relationships but still harbouring an obsessive grudge). Both his relationship with his girlfriend and that of Skylar and Ryan seem pretty recent. Indeed his continuing proximity to her life via working with her new boyfriend probably prevented him from 'moving on' and kept the obsession and grudge alive.

Of course it is quite hard to understand that proximity. If both Skylar and TJ moved away from the original area its strange that they ended up so near to each other. Since Ryan had lived in his property for some time and Skylar moved in with him, I think it likely TJ moved there to be close to her rather than her knowingly making that move. The fact that he then was working with her new boyfriend is clearly the gunpowder that made this case blow up. She must have been very uncomfortable about that - even if Ryan wasn't. (The truth is we don't know what he thought about it).

The things that are particularly perplexing me are as follows:
- Why did RM go to TJ's house? At first when I read about the case I thought he must have gone there to warn off TJ in a man to man way. Now as the thread has developed it has been suggested they were sharing lifts or other drugs related enterprises. I'm not sure if there is evidence for that or whether it is speculation at this point.
- By TJ asking his girlfriend and her friend to leave early so he could have RM round he clearly communicated to them (and now the world) pre-meditation. Beyond the surprise that anyone would think that was a reasonable request and accede to it, it was also pretty stupid - surely he could have worked out the signal it would have given of this being a premeditated plan? I am surprised he wouldn't have realised the impact of that when he was planning this attack.
- Returning the car. I generally buy the suggestion that TJ returned the car to RM's in the hope that when he was reported missing the search would start there not at his house. (Though his communication of intent to have RM come to his apartment to his girlfriend would have undermined that hope pretty quickly - surely she would have made the connection - 'hey wasnt that the guy you invited round here?'). However I am surprised that he managed to gain entry to the property or garage and Skylar saw him but he didn't see her. I am also surprised if he had Ryan's keys and was motivated by jealousy why he didn't proceed into the house and do harm to her - in his mind the cause of all of this (not victim blaming - she didn't deserve any of this). Maybe he presumed she wasn't there and was at work? Maybe he didn't see her car? (I dont know if she has a car - just guessing....)
- Covering up the crime. One possible explanation for why he didn't go ahead and attack Skylar right there and then was his need to return home to clear up the evidence. That could have been plausible. However, we now know he made no attempt to clear up other than dumping Ryan's body in a cupboard with the sofa cushions. If the crime was pre-mediated its very hard to understand why TJ had not planned how to dispose of the body. Apparently according to this board he didn't have a car and lived in quite a busy apartment complex. How on earth did he think he was going to get rid of the body?
- Inviting the girlfriend and friend straight back into the house. Again, this is very odd. If he moved the car to buy time before his victim's disappearance was reported it is odd he didn't take advantage of that time window. When you have just committed such a serious crime and have a dead body in your house it is quite peculiar that you don't seem to have plans to remove the body and clear up the scene. There could well have been other blood spatters apart from on the cushions, a weapon to dispose of, the clothes he was wearing to clean or dispose of. (I dont think we have heard what other evidence LE may have found at the scene ?). Unless he thought he could get his girlfriend to help him dispose of the body (which is a very big ask - not many girlfriends would agree to that and there would be a serious risk that she or her friend would instead go straight to LE) it really was an odd way to behave.

I am not making these points to argue against TJ being guilty, that the motive was jealousy or that he should indeed successfully make the case for insanity. But I guess I am raising the case for stupidity. And of course evil intent.

All MOO. Very sad for Ryan and his child.

Very good read. I don't understand why RM would be hanging out with TJ. If his girlfriend SR had a protection order on him why would he want to be friends and hang out. I at some point wondered if SR knew that RM gave TJ a ride home from work? I wondered if he really went to the house of RM. I read that he had one of those breath things you have to blow in to start the car. Moo if he had killed RM why didn't he kill SR when he was at the house.? This case is very odd. There seems so many things that don't add up. I seen someone post RM was getting ready to go to jail in a few days. Not that his criminal history means he deserved to die, because it didn't. But I wonder RM and TJ have a fight maybe? Did something happen and then TJ freaked out and tried to cover it up? They both look to be about the same size. My heart goes out to all that are involved. RMs family and TJ as well. Both parents have to be struggling as well as RM daughter.

 

[Purduegirl12]

MOO the details of his plan are hard to say.
But to me he has a notable dispatch and creativity on carrying things out. I assume he had a car, he had one in Delphi.
MOO driving with RM was about by-passing RMs restricted ignition due to DWI's I think.

TJ was able to get RM from the living room to the bedroom closet about 12 feet, so I would believe given a few hours TJ could get RM into a car without help.

So do you think RM had TJ ride with him so he could blow in the ignition to start car?

 

[tresir2012]

So do you think RM had TJ ride with him so he could blow in the ignition to start car?

I do think this was a possibility why they shared a ride. Or TJ even driving RM's car.

 

[jillybean51]

Very good read. I don't understand why RM would be hanging out with TJ. If his girlfriend SR had a protection order on him why would he want to be friends and hang out. I at some point wondered if SR knew that RM gave TJ a ride home from work? I wondered if he really went to the house of RM. I read that he had one of those breath things you have to blow in to start the car. Moo if he had killed RM why didn't he kill SR when he was at the house.? This case is very odd. There seems so many things that don't add up. I seen someone post RM was getting ready to go to jail in a few days. Not that his criminal history means he deserved to die, because it didn't. But I wonder RM and TJ have a fight maybe? Did something happen and then TJ freaked out and tried to cover it up? They both look to be about the same size. My heart goes out to all that are involved. RMs family and TJ as well. Both parents have to be struggling as well as RM daughter.

Maybe TJ told him that SR was at his place....upset,crying etc?RM would certainly want to go to her rescue!

 

[Boxer]

Maybe TJ told him that SR was at his place....upset,crying etc?RM would certainly want to go to her rescue!

Maybe - hadn't thought of that, a "luring lie."
Since TJ is a stalker and murderer, he obviously has no boundaries so anything like that might have happened.

 

[tresir2012]

I see now. Thanks for breaking it down. Moo they are asking for mental health records due to TJs lawyer filing motions to get him evaluated for mental health. In moo he doesn't look anything like the bridge guy. But anytime someone is arrest anywhere close to Delphi people go straight for thinking they are bridge guy.

Well it's not like there are that many murderers from Delphi in the last 20 years so we are keeping our eyes on these few cases that have come up for that reason. In this case, TJ's prior mental health is clearly relevant. Anyone who had no problems would not have mental health records to be requested. Regarding why they were sharing a ride to/from work, perhaps Ryan felt that was an easy way to keep tabs on him. Ryan presumably knew that TJ had a protection order against his girlfriend and was therefore a threat. Unfortunately, it seems noone knew how much of a threat he was, not even Ryan. MOO.

 

[Boxer]

Very good read. I don't understand why RM would be hanging out with TJ. If his girlfriend SR had a protection order on him why would he want to be friends and hang out. I at some point wondered if SR knew that RM gave TJ a ride home from work? I wondered if he really went to the house of RM. I read that he had one of those breath things you have to blow in to start the car. Moo if he had killed RM why didn't he kill SR when he was at the house.? This case is very odd. There seems so many things that don't add up. I seen someone post RM was getting ready to go to jail in a few days. Not that his criminal history means he deserved to die, because it didn't. But I wonder RM and TJ have a fight maybe? Did something happen and then TJ freaked out and tried to cover it up? They both look to be about the same size. My heart goes out to all that are involved. RMs family and TJ as well. Both parents have to be struggling as well as RM daughter.

RM was incapacited by multiple blows to the head with a heavy object and then strangled with a ligature.

If TJ could hold down a job then he isn't insane.
MH for sure, but that is no excuse, millions have OCD ADHD depression bipolar schizoid disorders etc.
And the public is more a danger to them than they are to the public.

 

[Purduegirl12]

Maybe TJ told him that SR was at his place....upset,crying etc?RM would certainly want to go to her rescue!

Maybe TJ told him that SR was at his place....upset,crying etc?RM would certainly want to go to her rescue!

That doesn't make any sense. What would make you think that? That TJ told him SR was at his place. It states in the paper that was published that RM gave TJ a ride home from work. RM and TJ worked together. My point was why would RM even give TJ a ride home if TJ was his girlfriends x boyfriend that had a protective order.