"incestuous" images found on JP's computer in Utah

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Magdalyn said:
Okay, I found this article, don't know if you guys have seen it or linked it, but JPs stuff sounds like it wasn't this uber-realistic stuff, and that's why it wasn't considered illegal.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...d-🤬🤬🤬🤬-animation-images-were-not-a-crime.html

If depicted images are so "indistinguishable" that an ordinary person would conclude they are the real thing — those images are not protected speech and prosecution can occur. It is an area of law that is evolving as law enforcement tries to keep up with technology.

The animation on Powell's computer shows a family with children about ages 7 and 8, but the characters were not meant to look like real people, Pierce County Sheriff's Detective Sgt. Ed Troyer said. "It depicts pornographic acts, it's incest in nature."

And also, yeah, it was with little kid incest. Ugh.
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Man. I was hoping at least that wasn't going to be the case. Wow. I really hope he never touched Susan's boys.
 
karen7868 said:
This article may help clear up that Susan was not ill, according to JoVonna Owings.

She said she was only tired/sleepy, not ill.

HTH.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...29yqAg&usg=AFQjCNG-F5fAlq3xl4-FDf9Xllq7oz6SIQ
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I know he planned this. He didn't plan well, but he did plan it. Now we know he was the type that could not handle feeling a certain way. It apparently built up in hims until he felt he must act. Or maybe it was his only opportunity. But, I feel he definitely planned to murder her.

He knew she wanted out because he was such a jerk and not living according to his promises. he was controlling and she was scared. he knew the kids would likely go to her. So, he killed her and then fled to daddy.
 
I'm not so sure that he planned Susan. I find it difficult to believe that he would plan his alibi as the "camping trip." But it is possible I guess that he planned the murder, planned how to dispose of the body and spent so much time planning those, that he never really spent much time on planning his alibi. After the fact he realized he had to come up with something that closely mirrored where he was in case there were any inadvertent sightings.
 
karen7868 said:
It's in this article, but I also read it somewhere else because I think it gave the neighbor's name.

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-i...ine-of-days-surrounding-susan-s-disappearance
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Thanks! I bookmarked it. You've been very helpful getting me up to speed--thank you! :seeya:

I did notice that JoVanna only saw Josh and the boys go as far as the garage. And that he TOLD her they were going sledding (which implies they were leaving as soon as she left). But it doesn't sound like she saw them actually trudge away with the sled. So Josh could have been fudging the timeline on the front end--not left until later.


5 or 5:30 p.m.: Susan went to take a nap; JoVonna saw Josh take the boys out to the garage; Josh told her he was taking them sledding


If this was planned, I wonder if Susan inviting JoVonna over screwed up the timeline of Josh's plan for the day, and he thought, "Just great! Fine. Whatever. She can come over and I'll look like the doting hubby/father."

Then, even after Susan goes to take a nap, JoVonna's not rushing out the door, so Josh is all, "You know, I think I'm gonna take the boys sledding now, buh-bye!"
 
gitana1 said:
I know he planned this. He didn't plan well, but he did plan it. Now we know he was the type that could not handle feeling a certain way. It apparently built up in hims until he felt he must act. Or maybe it was his only opportunity. But, I feel he definitely planned to murder her.

He knew she wanted out because he was such a jerk and not living according to his promises. he was controlling and she was scared. he knew the kids would likely go to her. So, he killed her and then fled to daddy.
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I'm not married to a theory--yet.

I can see 'an in the middle' approach to the he planned it/he didn't plan it debate. Perhaps he'd started think about it in the last weeks, in a generic, 'It sure would make everything easier if it wasn't for Susan' kind of way. But then *something* started brewing in her last few days, he snapped, and threw together a cockamamie plan and executed it---at the first possible opportunity---without thinking all the details through.

I just don't think this was a plan a month in the making with SP helping outline the details. Now, I can see SP planting the seeds of "Wouldn't life be easier w/o the b**** wife of yours who keeps spurning my advances?"

--I know no one has thrown out the SP helping plan part, I just threw that in there as a bonus. :innocent:
 
Hi all. Just wanted to post my take on this computer generated stuff. We just had a webinar at work re social media, etc. Where I work is all about keeping the internet safe because we are COMPLETELY computerized. It was very informative, mostly about privacy on the internet, etc. But they threw in some stuff which they thought would be helpful to parents and one thing they talked about was these "children" sites (and forgive me I didn't write it down because my kids are grown) where kids go into a vitual world and create avatars of themselves, friends, etc. They build houses and have parties with other "kids" on the site. Totally kid oriented...or so it seems. But this computer security expert said that she noticed that there were ads on the site for things like Ford F-150 trucks, etc., stuff not kid-oriented. So what they found out was it was a high draw for pedophiles because kids from all over would access and they could gain info on them. Sick, sick. So the stuff found on JP's computer could have been something like that, where he built his own "world" with grownup Dads and his "kids". Then as I understand it you can make these "cartoon like" characters speak, interact, etc.

Sorry - you all have probably discussed all of this, but I was just perusing and thought I would put in my bit.

IMHO I believe the internet has unleashed the devils of hell, in that anybody's darkest desire can be found. Someone once said to me "if you google having sex with a telephone pole, you can bet you will get a hit or two in the search engine". God help us all.
 
Magdalyn said:
I'm not married to a theory--yet.

I can see 'an in the middle' approach to the he planned it/he didn't plan it debate. Perhaps he'd started think about it in the last weeks, in a generic, 'It sure would make everything easier if it wasn't for Susan' kind of way. But then *something* started brewing in her last few days, he snapped, and threw together a cockamamie plan and executed it---at the first possible opportunity---without thinking all the details through.

I just don't think this was a plan a month in the making with SP helping outline the details. Now, I can see SP planting the seeds of "Wouldn't life be easier w/o the b**** wife of yours who keeps spurning my advances?"

--I know no one has thrown out the SP helping plan part, I just threw that in there as a bonus. :innocent:
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I see it as domestic violence that culminated in Susan's death and ultimately, in Charlie and Braden's deaths. The cycle of violence is more circular than linear and the rage gets more intense. I just wish Susan could have gotten out sooner, with her babies. As for steve, I see him as a catalyst, a puppetmaster who kept josh dangling. This was about manipulation and hate, ending in rage on more than one occasion.
 
gitana1 said:
I know he planned this. He didn't plan well, but he did plan it. Now we know he was the type that could not handle feeling a certain way. It apparently built up in hims until he felt he must act. Or maybe it was his only opportunity. But, I feel he definitely planned to murder her.

He knew she wanted out because he was such a jerk and not living according to his promises. he was controlling and she was scared. he knew the kids would likely go to her. So, he killed her and then fled to daddy.
Click to expand...

When I heard he gave the boy's toys and books away, I immediately thought of Jovonna returning yarns taken by mistake, after Josh and boys came back from sledding. Josh said to her that Susan will be working during the week and she won’t need them soon. In fact this proves to me that he knew Susan will never ever need those yarns. And also that he was very aware that it is Sunday!
He planed everything, in both cases! Maybe in Susan’s something went wrong and he had to come up with the stupid camping story.
 
TotallyObsessed said:
Hi all. Just wanted to post my take on this computer generated stuff. We just had a webinar at work re social media, etc. Where I work is all about keeping the internet safe because we are COMPLETELY computerized. It was very informative, mostly about privacy on the internet, etc. But they threw in some stuff which they thought would be helpful to parents and one thing they talked about was these "children" sites (and forgive me I didn't write it down because my kids are grown) where kids go into a vitual world and create avatars of themselves, friends, etc. They build houses and have parties with other "kids" on the site. Totally kid oriented...or so it seems. But this computer security expert said that she noticed that there were ads on the site for things like Ford F-150 trucks, etc., stuff not kid-oriented. So what they found out was it was a high draw for pedophiles because kids from all over would access and they could gain info on them. Sick, sick. So the stuff found on JP's computer could have been something like that, where he built his own "world" with grownup Dads and his "kids". Then as I understand it you can make these "cartoon like" characters speak, interact, etc.

Sorry - you all have probably discussed all of this, but I was just perusing and thought I would put in my bit.

IMHO I believe the internet has unleashed the devils of hell, in that anybody's darkest desire can be found. Someone once said to me "if you google having sex with a telephone pole, you can bet you will get a hit or two in the search engine". God help us all.
Click to expand...

Second Life online MMO's.
 
xheraldina said:
When I heard he gave the boy's toys and books away, I immediately thought of Jovonna returning yarns taken by mistake, after Josh and boys came back from sledding. Josh said to her that Susan will be working during the week and she won’t need them soon. In fact this proves to me that he knew Susan will never ever need those yarns. And also that he was very aware that it is Sunday!
He planed everything, in both cases! Maybe in Susan’s something went wrong and he had to come up with the stupid camping story.
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ITA, jp was on the phone allot with sp. jp COOKED dinner that night!
Jovonna was invited just for an alibi. (poor woman)
jp didn't want to kill anyone but Susan.
jp KNEW where to hide her.
IMO something did go wrong.........the poison (whatever) did not
work while he and the boys went sledding.
Something happened in the livingroom (wet carpet).
Then he went ahead with his disposable plan.
All the driving around IMO, was he didn't know what to do, confused
and had to make up his alibi story of camping, smores, testing out his new compresser....................everything backfired on him.......JMOO
 
passionflower said:
ITA, jp was on the phone allot with sp. jp COOKED dinner that night!
Jovonna was invited just for an alibi. (poor woman)
jp didn't want to kill anyone but Susan.
jp KNEW where to hide her.
IMO something did go wrong.........the poison (whatever) did not
work while he and the boys went sledding.
Something happened in the livingroom (wet carpet).
Then he went ahead with his disposable plan.
All the driving around IMO, was he didn't know what to do, confused
and had to make up his alibi story of camping, smores, testing out his new compresser....................everything backfired on him.......JMOO
Click to expand...

He cooked, and he allowed the boys to eat something not grown in the garden - when in the past he had not. I'm wondering if he was drugging them too, but in a smaller dose, to make them sleepy and compliant.
Did the boys ever confirm they went sledding?
OR did he take them out in order to assess the weather, buy gasoline or other items, and wait for the poison/GHB to work?
When he found Susan not entirely incapacitated, did he stab her? Maybe just once, to get her heart to stop? Not as much blood as an entire attack.(mommy, oweeee....)
Then roll her up or carry her to the car and take everyone out to dump her.
 
Am I getting it right that cartoon videos or pictures depicting children being sexually abused are only federal crime if they are transported across state lines? There aren't any states where possession alone is a punishable offense? I don't understand that, that doesn't make sense.

Kidnapping is a federal crime if state lines are crossed, but kidnapping without crossing a state line is a crime. How come it isn't the same with computer generated/ cartoon images of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬?

I don't understand this at all and I don't know what to think about any of this.

What is preventing animated child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 from being made illegal at the state level?
 
Animated child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 I believe is only a crime if it is "obscene" or without merit. What counts is obscenity is a really long trail of cases, and it's still a bit nebulous, given the test defined in Miller. According to the Supreme Court, to determine if something is obscene:

The basic guidelines for the trier of fact must be: (a) whether 'the average person, applying contemporary community standards would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest, (b) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law; and (c) whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
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So, there's a loophole for possession of animated child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, since some of it can get around the obscenity statute. However, they may have added in punishment for transport across state lines to try and close this gap - I'm not sure, I'll have to go back to the statute and check on that.

When it comes to 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, you enter into the First Amendment freedom of speech zone, which complicates things. Child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 with actual children is easily quashed, because of the strong interest in protecting children. Written materials, animated/cartoon movies, and things of that nature which don't involve actual children don't have that same strong public interest. Therefore, any statute which attempts to restrict speech has to respect the rights given in the First Amendment.

In some ways, this makes sense. A book like Lolita or a documentary on child trafficking could get swept up by these statutes, and innocuous speech suppressed. The court uses things like Miller obscenity test to try and protect free speech while also restricting speech which goes to far. It's a balancing test with lines that are being redrawn every day.
 
Investigators knew about this for 2 years....bye, can't even go there right now.
 
So I guess today's reveal that there were hundreds of these images is the next big kick in the stomach in this case. The hits just keep coming.

I'm so sorry Susan married this creep.
 
Powell had initially told the psychologist that he visited only 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 sites featuring adults.

"Given the gaps of information about Mr. Powell there seems reason to conclude he may not presently be a stable and appropriate resource for his children," wrote Dr. James Manley in a follow-up report.

Washington officials overseeing the care of Powell's children first got word of the graphic content in November, when a Utah investigator wrote in an email that they were looking to disclose to social workers about 5-6 images recovered in 2009 shortly after Susan Powell's disappearance.

But two months later, social worker Forest Jacobson wrote that the images weren't received until mid-January and told the psychologist "it is now clear there are many more images than initially indicated."

A spokesman for the West Valley City police in Utah did not return a call seeking comment Friday.

In other documents released under Washington public records laws, social workers detailed how they were concerned that Josh Powell would speak disparagingly of his in-laws, Chuck and Judy Cox, in front of his children.

The documents also state that Charlie Powell was beginning to remember about his mother, and that he said "he remembers she left because grandpa was mean to her." Caseworkers believed that Charlie was repeating what his father had been saying.

In interviews with mental health professionals, Powell said he feared a "militant faction" of the Mormon church might kidnap his two sons. Braden and Charlie were overheard saying that "Mormons" were "trying to steal" them and "harm" them. DSHS notes that that given the children's ages, these opinions were probably not their own.

Charlie once told school personnel how to bury an animal so it wouldn't be discovered. Personnel only noted this because of their mother's disappearance.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Josh-Powell-had-400-cartoon-sex-and-incest-images-139539898.html
 
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