Interesting ...

[texaslb218]

Tipper!! Thanks!!
I DO KNOW it is a hassle to respond to someone trying to get up to speed. You have to regress so much. But I do appreciate it! I am going to read at Sundance as soon as I catch up on the new posts here.

 

[txsvicki]

Thanks Capp for bringing up the book. I do recall reading somewhere that Patsy was asked about the book and she responded that her father gave it to her but wasn't pressed further on the subject. Too bad...an opportunity wasted.

I have never considered John Ramsey ever hurting his precious JonBenet....

The April 3, 2001 issue of the NE got an EXCLUSIVE interview from none other than John and Patsy Ramsey! Here's an excert...

During the ENQUIROR interview, Patsy admitted she considered and rejected the possibility that John was sexually abusing JonBenet. She openly admitted that during her struggle to defeat ovarian cancer between 1993 and 1994, John and Patsy's sex life suffered. She totally rejects the notion of John abusing JonBenet, but her reasoning is odd.

She said her mother "came to take care of the kids (when I had cancer). She slept in the other bed in JonBenet's room. I mean, if John was coming in to molest JonBenet, you know that's not going to happen 'cause Grandma was right there every night."

********************************************

Could the book that Grandpa Paugh gave Patsy had been about John and JonBenet?

I wonder if Patsy is so stupid as to really think that John molesting his daughter would depend on whether or not she could still have sex or not. A pedophile would want to abuse a child no matter how many women he could have. Everything seems to be all about Patsy.

 

[Jayelles]

I have reservations about the judgement of anyone who relies heavily on Steve Thomas' opinions.

I would be wary of anyone who relied heavily on any ONE person's opinions - including Steve Thomas and Lou Smit! I think the truth is in there somewhere and that ALL observers may be right in some part.

To Texaslb128 - I also struggled with PMPT and have read it maybe 4 times now. I really struggled with the American justice system which is so different from the British. I had a really hard time figuring out the significance of all the various factions and "job titles". We don't have a DA here. Our police are much more autonomous and there are no elected officials in LE here.

I think there is no doubt that Steve Thomas was very passionate about finding justice for JonBenet. I was particularly touched by the fact that he spent Christmas away from home working on the case. However, I don't agree with his bed-wetting theory. I'm not even certain that he was offering it as "the" solution to the case. I've always had the impression that he offered it as an example of a rage scenario. As a mother, I cannot ever comprehend me killing one of my children over a wet bed - but having said that, none of my children were bed wetters. My eldest was a good natured and exuberant child who had daytime accidents up to the age of 6 - simply because he loved playing so much that he occasionally would not pull himself away from the game until it was too late. He only ever had the accidents when he was playing with friends - never at other times and I used to get so mad at him, so there was a definable pattern there. He is and always has been a very sociable individual. What we find hilarious nowadays is that he ALWAYS announces when he is going to the toilet - it's a family joke. His long-term girlfriend teases him about it. I don't know if it's as a result of his childhood accidents or not but someone in the family always sings a little fanfare for him when he makes his announcement "I'm just going to the toilet" (He's 20).

 

[tipper]

I've had two bed-wetters and it's no big deal. JonBenet would have been Patsy's third so she would be well aware that they do eventually outgrow it.

 

[Toltec]

Let's not forget that there were 8 detectives on the JBR case...not just Steve Thomas. He often quotes what others say about the case...not his opinion.

His job as Detective was interviewing employees at Access Graphics. He did not interview everyone....he read the case files when he wrote his book.

I'm tired of people thinking that Steve Thomas lied about this and that...he is merely quoting other detectives and he is getting most of his information from the case files.

This man had more passion than the entire RaMSEY family put together as far as finding JonBenet's killer. This case nearly killed him.

 

[narlacat]

I wonder if Patsy is so stupid as to really think that John molesting his daughter would depend on whether or not she could still have sex or not. A pedophile would want to abuse a child no matter how many women he could have. Everything seems to be all about Patsy.

Pedophila and incest are two different things arent they?
If John was molesting Jonebenet that is incest and doesnt necassarily mean he is a pedophile...does it?
Would it be safe to say that a guy who is a womanizer is not likely to be a pedophile....after all pedophiles like kids not grown women...

 

[dingo]

Hi Narlacat, I think it is safe to say that some peodphiles have children of their own , meaning they are able to carry on a normal relationship with a woman as well as having an abnormal sexual appetite for children .As far as JR is concerned , if he was interfering with JB ,I would say think that would be incest as well as peodphelia [sp].Double the trouble so to speak

 

[duffy]

I recently learned there is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester.

A pedophile is a person who "fantasizes" about children and sex. They are sexually stimulated by the fantasy.

A child molester acts upon an adult/child sexual contact. Did I say that right? Oh well you know what I mean.

The one thing about the bedwetting is it is one of the signs of sexual molestation.

I think it is entirely possible that p.r. found out that JonBenet was being molested by j.r. and became enraged at JonBenet as many times happens.

I think it was pre-meditated which is how p.r. could write the rn before the actual murder and have been able to have written it.

p.s. incest is sexual contact between family members. If j.r. was molesting JonBenet I would think it would be an incestuous child molestation.

 

[tipper]

Bedwetting can be a sign of molestation but it's also common in kids who aren't being molested. Burke wet the bed and I think JAR may have as well.

 

[duffy]

Bedwetting can be a sign of molestation but it's also common in kids who aren't being molested. Burke wet the bed and I think JAR may have as well.

:doh: :doh: :doh: Yeah, tipper I know. I never had a bed wetter myself but I do know it can be a very hurtfull issue with a child.

It is also a sign of molestation.

I know little of JAR but I do think Burke masturbating at 10 is young and believe it is entirely possible he had been sexualized by an adult too.

 

[tipper]

Where did you hear about Burke masturbating?

 

[capps]

:doh: :doh: :doh: Yeah, tipper I know. I never had a bed wetter myself but I do know it can be a very hurtfull issue with a child.

It is also a sign of molestation.

I know little of JAR but I do think Burke masturbating at 10 is young and believe it is entirely possible he had been sexualized by an adult too.

Duffy,

I think this is where you may be confused. You also mentioned this in your theory on another thread. The semen on the blanket was JAR's not Burkes.

 

[duffy]

Duffy,

I think this is where you may be confused. You also mentioned this in your theory on another thread. The semen on the blanket was JAR's not Burkes.

Oh ! confused dumb * is more like it Capps. Thank you for correcting me. I thought I was quoting another posting in that info.

I stand corrected and thank you for it!!!

 

[Rupert]

Heart drawn magazine as in Ricochet where the perp wanted to frame the father for drugs and perversion.

Jane Stobie's outright statement about how John Ramsay appeared to be a pedophile (Mame interviews), she wrote a book: JonBenet's Gift: A Miracle for the Millennium (a painted puzzle for the cover page).

Krebs accusation about Fleet White and his father.

Chris Wolf's immediate opinion of John Ramsay to his girlfriend.

Ramsay's doctor statement that there was no evidence of such history.

Who do you believe? Crime Library, the Enquireror, a disgruntled former employee, the other guy .... Or do you believe the professional doctor?

Either this pedophile connection is real or it has entered the crime scene pre and post as a set-up. There are serious arguments from both sides on whether or not JonBenet was sexually abused frequently before her death. Note I said "set-up" and not "staging".

Is it possible that the injury by the broken paint brush was an attempt to cover up any prior abuse? I would think you would have to know what you are doing to take that risk.

Why on earth would John Ramsay stage any sexual abuse to cover up an accident? That would just point back to him, no? After all, this was supposed to be a kidnapping by a foreign faction.

I don't think the perp momentarily forgot about the foreign faction theme because the sex theme is repeated by the heart drawn business magazine and seems in keeping with the stun gun abuse.

Well, whoever the perp was, that perp had issues with sex.

 

[Toltec]

The heart drawn on the pics...with the same red ink used to draw a heart on JonBenet's hand.

And when you think of the movie references in the ransom note...these are R- rated movies...something the children hopefully weren't watching.

 

[Rupert]

So, the question is: were John or Patsy capable of making all those movie references? Is there any evidence pre-history that suggests that either of them would have such easy recall during a extremely emotional stress?

Linda Hoffman Pugh suggests in her book that Patsy read mystery type novels (whats the author's name). Is that enough? I also ask the question why LHP would bring that up. I mean, if she knew Patsy watched Dirty Harry a number of times, plus Speed, etc., then yes that would be evidence worth mentioning.

I tend to think the note was written with atleast the input of someone much younger than Patsy, who had the time to watch such movies. Also that person might have been interested in games. Please, I'm not talking about Burk.

 

[txsvicki]

Pedophila and incest are two different things arent they?
If John was molesting Jonebenet that is incest and doesnt necassarily mean he is a pedophile...does it?
Would it be safe to say that a guy who is a womanizer is not likely to be a pedophile....after all pedophiles like kids not grown women...

I've never looked up the exact definitions or statistics on the two, but I know that there are so many reports of men molesting and raping children, but they are married or boyfriends of the child's mother. I guess I mainly meant that if John were perverted and wanting to molest a child, it wouldn't matter if Patsy were able to have sex or not and he definitely had the money to hire a high class discreet call girl for regular visits.

 

[GuruJosh]

I do think Burke masturbating at 10 is young and believe it is entirely possible he had been sexualized by an adult too.

No, I have to disagree with you there. Almost all boys are masturbating by 10, and most begin when they are 5 or 6, to some degree.

I was a boy once, I know these things

 

[duffy]

No, I have to disagree with you there. Almost all boys are masturbating by 10, and most begin when they are 5 or 6, to some degree.

I was a boy once, I know these things

I appreciate your input Josh, I have a son and now have 2 grandsons and know they touch themselves but ejaculating at 10? I'm 46 does that make a difference? Are these things starting younger? Does there need to be any sort of sexual exposure to ejaculate at 10?

I'm not arguing with you and I have been accused of being naive, I guess I would just like to be more educated. Without being a .

 

[BlueCrab]

So, the question is: were John or Patsy capable of making all those movie references?

Rupert,

It's possible but highly unlikely that John or Patsy would have used adages from action movies in a ransom note. That naive note has juvenile male written all over it.