Interesting ...

[Zman]

Rape with an object is still considered rape. You can even have rape with or without penetration. What was done to JonBenet was legally rape but I wonder if it was done for the benefit of the killer or to lead investigators astray?

i dont think SEXUAL pleasure was this killers motivation. Just humiliation of the body.

 

[capps]

i dont think SEXUAL pleasure was this killers motivation. Just humiliation of the body.

There was also semen found on JonBenet's body ... that's sexual.

 

[tipper]

There was also semen found on JonBenet's body ... that's sexual.

No there wasn't

 

[Shelayne]

So tell me please Camper - did these countless 6 year old girls that you know of also wipe themselves so ineptly that they ended up with vaginitis and bladder infections?

I'm not Camper , but I DO know of little girls that ended up with infections because of poor toilet habits. They tend to wipe incorrectly (because it is easier) and also want to be self-sufficient. I only have boys, so I cannot offer up my own in that regard, although my 6-year-old often yells, " I need someone to help me wipe my bottom!" when he has a (sorry) messy BM. I have a dear friend who has a 6-year-old girl that talks of constantly having to remind her of hygiene habits and she also gets that "special" call to the toilet for her mastery in messy matters, otherwise she resists the assistance of her mother. I do believe that her oldest daughter did end up with an infection around that age and that is why she is so "on" her 6-year-old.

I believe that it is quite common with little girls. FWIW, she wets the bed as well. Also very common.

 

[capps]

No there wasn't

Your correct Tipper.
Why would I think there was semen on JB's body??? Probably because in my own mind,I keep thinking that when she was wiped down,it was to wipe away the perp's semen. But you're right Tipper,no semen was found on JonBenet's body.

 

[tipper]

Your correct Tipper.
Why would I think there was semen on JB's body??? Probably because in my own mind,I keep thinking that when she was wiped down,it was to wipe away the perp's semen. But you're right Tipper,no semen was found on JonBenet's body.

You probably remember it because it was originally thought that there was. I occasionally have mental lapses like that. Too much info. Some real, some not, some not yet sorted...

 

[Kathleen]

I remember as a child always having a good warm tub bath everynight, and also I remember having wonderful bubble baths, usually after the Christmas season because of gifts of these. I ALSO remember the terrible bottom discomfort resulting from these bubble baths, so that my mother or grandmother limited the use of them and I always had to rinse off with plain water after the tub drained. (That DID help!) I remember the intense itching and burning...the scratching or rubbing to get a little relief..and that my mother would have me use Vaseline in the area to get some relief. I usually did this myself, but she would have done so had I needed her help. I am glad I had a mother and older sister who were not afraid to attend the special needs of a little girl. Today, I am greatful for the "Wet Wipe", or baby wipe..Sometimes the dry paper just doesn't do the trick! I am a fully capable, 51 year old female, mother (of boys), R.N., with very good small and large motor skills (as opposed to a young child) and even I have problems at times.
My take on JB's vaginal irritation is just that...poor hygiene, bubble bath, soap allergy, food allergy, poorly rinsed clothing, antibiotics..all can cause itching...itching causes scratching or rubbing which in turn causes more irritation and more infection..and on and on... Kathleen

 

[Nehemiah]

i dont think SEXUAL pleasure was this killers motivation. Just humiliation of the body.

"Humiliation" in what way? She was wrapped papoose-like in a blanket.

I fully understand the injuries that were levied, but in what way was there humiliation of the body that could be construed as motivation of the killer?

A la John Walsh's statement that JR "cut her down"?

 

[Camper]

Why would a VIOLENT drooling sexual pervert take the time to wrap his victim in a blankie? WHY would a Foreign Faction 'operative' wrap his victim in a blankie?


When I was a tot, my baths were given in the family washtub in the middle of the living room, next to the heat source for the house, lest I get chilled. No running water to rinse well, mom would pour some fresh water on the parts that needed rinsing while as a babe I would stand up for that final rinse.

Plus we had an outhouse, which meant that I was left to my own devices with the Montgomery Ward catalog to boot. This was during my age 5 1/2 to age 9 when we moved to city water and the finer things in life.

The tub had to be carried outside to empty by MY mom, she cared deeply for me, and took care of me. I was cute and looked like Shirley Temple then, no beauty contests for me then, just played outside and was let alone to be a little kid. I never had a vaginal infection, or a scratchy area during that time period of my life.

My five daughters never had any either.

I do think that perhaps JonBenet was left in her tub to let the 'scrubbing bubbles' do their work, and doubt that she was EVER rinsed with clean water by her mom. IF PR could not remember when her daughter had a bath, bet she wouldn't or couldn't remember IF she ever rinsed JonBenet.


===============Anyone reading 6:30 AM Denver Mountain time, my radio just said three more explosions in London subway area.

 

[Toltec]

Why would a VIOLENT drooling sexual pervert take the time to wrap his victim in a blankie? WHY would a Foreign Faction 'operative' wrap his victim in a blankie?


When I was a tot, my baths were given in the family washtub in the middle of the living room, next to the heat source for the house, lest I get chilled. No running water to rinse well, mom would pour some fresh water on the parts that needed rinsing while as a babe I would stand up for that final rinse.

Plus we had an outhouse, which meant that I was left to my own devices with the Montgomery Ward catalog to boot. This was during my age 5 1/2 to age 9 when we moved to city water and the finer things in life.

The tub had to be carried outside to empty by MY mom, she cared deeply for me, and took care of me. I was cute and looked like Shirley Temple then, no beauty contests for me then, just played outside and was let alone to be a little kid. I never had a vaginal infection, or a scratchy area during that time period of my life.

My five daughters never had any either.

I do think that perhaps JonBenet was left in her tub to let the 'scrubbing bubbles' do their work, and doubt that she was EVER rinsed with clean water by her mom. IF PR could not remember when her daughter had a bath, bet she wouldn't or couldn't remember IF she ever rinsed JonBenet.


===============Anyone reading 6:30 AM Denver Mountain time, my radio just said three more explosions in London subway area.

I teared up reading this Camper....what a precious Mother you had. It's the hardships in life that makes a better person....a compassionate person like you're Mother. You were very lucky to have had her as you're Mother.

When I compare you're Mother to Patsy, who like you said does not remember the last time her daughter bathed....well I am speechless.

 

[Rupert]

I don't know about movies, but NI's favorite book was apparently "Walk Good", written by Roland Reimer about his experiences in Negril, Jamaica. NI served in the Peace Corps at Kingston, Jamaica from 1999 to 2001 and, as a comment to his fellow Peace Corps volunteers, on the internet he wrote just two words "Walk Good". Reimer's book "Walk Good" takes the reader deep into the island including the notorious adult-only "Hedonism Resort". Hedonism is the psychological belief that only pain and pleasure motivate people.
BlueCrab

Anyone who has studied hedonism probably also studied Nietzch. Hedonism is the idea that we are driven by pain and pleasue. Nietzch felt we were more driven by power.

The movie: "Rope" was based on Leopold and Loeb who based their ideals incorrectly on Nietzch. There are similarities between Rope and what happened at the Ramsays house and what was written in the RN.

 

[Camper]

Anyone who has studied hedonism probably also studied Nietzch. Hedonism is the idea that we are driven by pain and pleasue. Nietzch felt we were more driven by power.

The movie: "Rope" was based on Leopold and Loeb who based their ideals incorrectly on Nietzch. There are similarities between Rope and what happened at the Ramsays house and what was written in the RN.

OK Rupert, just an observation here so you can answer or not as you please. First of all I am what is considered an olde woman be 73 in Dec this year. I have spent these entire 72 plus years not knowing about the things you refer to in your post. I have heard the word hedonist and knew that it was someone who was self propelled to do wrong things, most likely with God in their hearts a missing quotient for them.

So, by my observation, I am wondering what age you might be, I am guessing in your 20's or your having been 20 not too long ago.

My thought connection is that a 20 ish person did the Ramsey crime, IF IF your thoughts are on the spot about the murderer. NOW then what 20 something year old person would have such a hatred about the Ramseys that they or he would kill a tiny child. Although in the Colorado sex offender list of 435 offenders that have committed more than one sexual offense. The crimes most often than not are against minor or small children. Many of these offenders are well over the age of 30, many look similar to David Westerfield, too plump, balding and drooly looking.

I can hear your rebut now, 'Oh, but, but other ages read such material and know of Nietzch'.

My rebut to your supposed rebut is that most 20 ish boys are more interested in sex period, and can also have major 'spats' and conflicts with their fathers, particularly when the father devorces their own mother, and takes on another one. Young men at that age when their hormones/testosterone are at a fever pitch would be the prime suspect in many matters of anger, and the results of that anger.

Just a random thought here, wonder what John Andrew received for Christmas from his father 'that' year, and when did he receive it and where was he when he received 'it'? Wonder IF IF he might have been in the Christmas video receiving 'it'. I have other wonderments that I will keep to myself.

 

[Zman]

OK Rupert, just an observation here so you can answer or not as you please. First of all I am what is considered an olde woman be 73 in Dec this year. I have spent these entire 72 plus years not knowing about the things you refer to in your post. I have heard the word hedonist and knew that it was someone who was self propelled to do wrong things, most likely with God in their hearts a missing quotient for them.

So, by my observation, I am wondering what age you might be, I am guessing in your 20's or your having been 20 not too long ago.

My thought connection is that a 20 ish person did the Ramsey crime, IF IF your thoughts are on the spot about the murderer. NOW then what 20 something year old person would have such a hatred about the Ramseys that they or he would kill a tiny child. Although in the Colorado sex offender list of 435 offenders that have committed more than one sexual offense. The crimes most often than not are against minor or small children. Many of these offenders are well over the age of 30, many look similar to David Westerfield, too plump, balding and drooly looking.

I can hear your rebut now, 'Oh, but, but other ages read such material and know of Nietzch'.

My rebut to your supposed rebut is that most 20 ish boys are more interested in sex period, and can also have major 'spats' and conflicts with their fathers, particularly when the father devorces their own mother, and takes on another one. Young men at that age when their hormones/testosterone are at a fever pitch would be the prime suspect in many matters of anger, and the results of that anger.

Just a random thought here, wonder what John Andrew received for Christmas from his father 'that' year, and when did he receive it and where was he when he received 'it'? Wonder IF IF he might have been in the Christmas video receiving 'it'. I have other wonderments that I will keep to myself.

What christmas video?

 

[Rupert]

My rebut to your supposed rebut is that most 20 ish boys are more interested in sex period, and can also have major 'spats' and conflicts with their fathers, particularly when the father devorces their own mother, and takes on another one. Young men at that age when their hormones/testosterone are at a fever pitch would be the prime suspect in many matters of anger, and the results of that anger.

Hi Camper. I'm 55 with a young mind I guess. Your theory of tetesterone is possible. I remember when I was that young, sometimes frustrated; sometimes hurt. Oh well.

On the hedonism vs nietzche I found this site with some layman english:
http://www.mith.demon.co.uk/nietintr.htm

"A concept such as the will to power has more specific content than that of forms of life, but only enough to make sense of the diversity. It is the generality of the will to power theory which some people find offensive; they want something far more particular, for reasons that are not hard to identify. I like to feel that my own values are the norm from which other people have deviated; if I can persuade others of this then I gain moral power. The will to power theory offers no such norm, nothing to use as a protection against others, no specific statement of what is right or healthy. Nietzsche by no means subscribed to a doctrine that might is right. Concepts of rightness and wrongness may vary according to how much power we possess, but insofar as power is a fact of nature its moral rightness or wrongness is not a question, and all that is asked is that we be strong enough to look these facts in the face.

HEDONISM: Modern morality of a seemingly egoistic cast finds expression in the qualification 'so long as you don't hurt anyone else' to the old adage 'do what you will'. There is usually an assumption that egoistic fulfilment is possible without infringing on the egoism of others. This supports an ideology of atomistic, individualistic hedonism, or egoism without will to power. From the Nietzschean viewpoint the assumption is unacceptable."

Nietzche was into power (a sort of free will gained over others). Leopold studied Nietzche and believed that he could increase his power if he got away with it. Hedonism allows free will as long as you don't power over others (reminds me of hippies). Nietzche could not accept hedonism.

I now probably opened myself up to all kinds of philosophical rebuts.

I don't know yet: tetesterone, rage, intruder with envy, revenge, or another clever high IQ NATHAN Leopold?

 

[narlacat]

What christmas video?

Maybe Camper is talking about the christmas video from the Ramsey's house on christmas day that noone has seen. I'm not sure if there even was a christmas video. I think the Ramsey's said there wasn't one, that they had forgot to charge the batteries so the camcorder wouldn't work or something along those lines.

 

[Camper]

Maybe Camper is talking about the christmas video from the Ramsey's house on christmas day that noone has seen. I'm not sure if there even was a christmas video. I think the Ramsey's said there wasn't one, that they had forgot to charge the batteries so the camcorder wouldn't work or something along those lines.

Yep narlacat, zman the Ramseys spoke of the FACT that it was a 'family tradition' to take a video each and every Christmas. Strangely though they had their excuse for the Christmas of 96, which would have been a highlight for JonBenet being a six year old. After six years of age a tot pretty much starts losing some totness - is that a word? THEN when the Ramseys had the movers packing their thingies for their move to GA, one mover found a video BEHIND the huge ceiling high entertainment center, he laid it out and tried to find someone to tell about it and when he went back again, it was gone, hmmm. It was said that the only way the video could have gotten behind the cabinet was to have tossed it up and over the top of the cabinet.

Rupert, you will send me scurrying to my dictionary with your response. Have you or any of the posters seen the new program on Wednesday nights called 'Brat Camp'? I am hooked on this, I even gave up LKL for it. Shows behaviors of young teenagers, that caused their parents to send them to Brat Camp, mind gripping for me anyhow. They are taken away from civilization as they know it, and go from camp to camp that they set up THEMSELVES. They carry all of their creature needs with them and walk all the way between camps through all sorts of weather. It is well worth the watching, imop. Mercy was given to them on Thanksgiving, when HOT TURKEY, mashed potatoes and all the trimmings were brought to them. THIS IS A GREAT PROGRAM! You get to know the kids and their behavior history, and I suspect as we follow along with the same children, we will see HOW they have become better human beings.

I am also most intriqued that John Andrew was not given a mention in the Ramseys DOI book. From all that I remember any mention of John Andrew was only done by the Ramsey attorneys, like he was not in Boulder, or he was not in Waterford MI. That makes three places he wasn't 1. in Boulder 2. in Waterford MI 3. in DOI. Welll he wasn't in the traditional family movie either, well heck none of the family was, huh, er.

I do have a tendency to put one and one together and get a total of 3 or more.

.

 

[Rupert]

Yep narlacat, zman the Ramseys spoke of the FACT that it was a 'family tradition' to take a video each and every Christmas. Strangely though they had their excuse for the Christmas of 96, which would have been a highlight for JonBenet being a six year old.

I am also most intriqued that John Andrew was not given a mention in the Ramseys DOI book.

Camper, I have never noticed this. Maybe you are onto something. I would like to see the supposed alibi photo of JAR at the cash machine (with the baseball cap). This would obviously connect to the suitcase (with JAR personal items directly linked to JonBenet's death) that was left by the window. That would all of a sudden make complete sense.

 

[Zman]

Camper, I have never noticed this. Maybe you are onto something. I would like to see the supposed alibi photo of JAR at the cash machine (with the baseball cap). This would obviously connect to the suitcase (with JAR personal items directly linked to JonBenet's death) that was left by the window. That would all of a sudden make complete sense.

Theres nothing in the suitcase that directly links to JBR's death.
Let's see shall I add fantasy video to the made up evidence chedk list?

Enhanced 911 tape.
Missing soiled underware.
Missing Christmas Video

 

[Nehemiah]

I am also most intriqued that John Andrew was not given a mention in the Ramseys DOI book.

Interesting, indeed. Distancing, perhaps?

 

[Camper]

Interesting, indeed. Distancing, perhaps?

Good morning, yep something like that, missing for certain.

zman "
Enhanced 911 tape.
Missing soiled underwear.
Missing Christmas Video

IF the voice could be hear with clarity, it would not take a person to the striped jail cell spa, IF the words spoken were as what we have more or less thought the words to be.

IF the soiled underwear could have been found, soiled, it would not take a person to the striped jail cell spa.

IF the missing Christmas video had been found, with a confrontational episode between family members of a very harsh nature, then LE would have a nail upon which to hang the orange jail suit for the striped jail cell spa ready for a wearer. Alibi's in place be hanged, IF the person having the confrontation were said to be elsewhere 'that' morning.


.