Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79

[LuvsSunshine]

This has possibly already been answered, but I'm far behind in reading posts. Have the alternate jurors been allowed to ask questions?

Thanks!

 

[Chester_from_THM]

No. Don't call your person out. Leave. Get as far away as you can from him or her. To this day, mine has never admitted to anything that has happened. They will deny, deny, deny. Just like JA on the stand in front of cameras and the family. She is not embarrassed because everyone might "know" that she's a lying piece of chute! She still thinks everyone is stupid and inferior to her. Don't bother trying to call that person out. GET OUT!

moo

Pink, your story reminded me so much of Mark and Lori Hacking. Exposing the psychopath is the most dangerous event and has led to many murders, I think.

 

[Clue Finder 55]

~ Above 'bolding' by smart blonde...

I think she lashed out with the knife and slashed him across his exposed nipple that we see in the sitting down shower pic.

In the (very graphic) autopsy photo of his chest wounds, that same nipple is shown with a deep gash across the lower third portion.

I think the nipple slash was probably the very first, and then as he was rising in a panic to get up and past her, his chest in it's entirety was exposed, allowing her to inflict deeper wounds, including the knife stab into his heart.

I think he was stabbed in the stomache already when the sitting in the shower pic was taken-he collapsed for a second then crawled out of the shower and was stabbed more in the back.
The autopsy pics I have seen elsewhere show the knife had a very wide blade like a large kitchen knife.The blade marks on his back looked about 2 1/2 inches wide.
If you are stabbed you don't bleed on the outside for a couple of seconds so unless a vien is cut thats why you dont see blood in the sitting photo.

 

[atthelake]

Revised with info about gas in Mesquite NV:


Well she filled up in Pasadena and filled up the gas cans. Her car had a 12-13 gallon capacity.

• From Pasadena to Desert Center, it's 171 miles and takes 5 gallons of gas in a 2008 Ford Focus. On cross-exam, Jodi says she was running low on gas and filled up approx 12 gallons - that's not possible, but she could have topped off.
  
  
• From Desert Center, CA to Buckeye, AZ, it's 170 miles and takes 5 gallons of gas. She said she filled up again in Buckeye and conceded on cross that she was running low on gas, so another 12 gallons of gas in Buckeye - this is not possible, and I do not believe she would have stopped at a gas station this close to Travis' home.
  
  
• From Buckeye, AZ to Mesa, AZ is 56 miles and takes 1.7 gallons of gas.
  
• If you assume Desert Center and Buckeye are fabrications because we don't have receipts and the appearance is Jodi is trying to be a ghost on her way to Travis' -- from Pasadena to Mesa is 386 miles and would take 11 gallons of gas. Jodi could make it to Mesa without stopping for gas, and have about 1 gallon to spare.
  
  
• From Mesa to Hoover Dam is 293 miles and takes 8.6 gallons of gas.
  
  
• From Hoover Dam to Mesquite, AZ it's 114.5 miles and takes 3.5 gallons of gas. In Mesquite, AZ she purchased $46.11 worth of gasoline --at least 10 gallons. There is no receipt for this gas purchase, and Jodi has not testified about getting gas here - we see this only on the bank statement that Juan entered yesterday.
  
  
  [*] So from Mesa to Mesquite, AZ, via Hoover Dam, Jodi would have used a little over 12 gallons at a minimum. That is a little more gas than she could have had left over in her tank plus 2, 5-gallon cans. Either she did stop between Mesa and Pasadena, or she had 3 gas cans. If she did stop for gas between Pasadena and Mesa, however, she would not have had to use the gas in the extra cans, so they would have remained full -- and she could not have filled them in SLC, which we know she did. Ergo, she had to have had 3 gas cans.
  
  
• From Mesquite, AZ to West Jordan, UT, it's 331 miles, and takes 10 gallons of gas
  
  
• From West Jordan to SLC, it's 13 miles and takes .5 gallons of gas.
  
  
• In SLC she purchased 20.25 gallons of gas (not counting the possible purchase for the 3rd gas can). Presumably she filled up her car and the two cans, since this is way more gas than her car can hold.
  
  
• From SLC to Winnemuca, NV, it's 354 miles and takes 10.4 gallons of gas. She said she was almost on empty when she filled up her car in Winnemuca. She purchased 12 gallons of gas.
  
  
• From Winnemuca, NV to Sparks, NV it's 163 miles and takes 4.8 gallons of gas. In Sparks, she bought 5 gallons of gas. So she would have a full tank of gas and an extra 10 gallons in the trunk.
  
  
• From Sparks, NV to Yreka, CA , it's 255 miles and takes 7.7 gallons of gas
  
  
• From Yreka, CA to Redding, CA, it's 98 miles and takes 3 gallons of gas. In Redding she purchased 9.47 gallons of gas, presumably filling the tank.
  
  
• At the end of her trip, she should have also still had 10 gallons of gas in the extra cans if she did not go anywhere else.

CONCLUSION:

1. She could not have made it from Pasadena to Mesquite on a tank of gas and 2, 5-gallon cans.

2. She could make it to Mesquite, NV if she had three extra 5-gallon cans OR if she filled up in Buckeye.

3. If she got filled up in Buckeye, then she would not have needed to use the extra gas cans at any time before she filled up again in Mesquite. And after filling up in Mesquite, she had enough gas to get her to West Jordan and then to SLC, and she still would not have needed the extra cans. But in SLC she filled up the extra 5-gallon cans, so she had to have used them. That means she did not fill up in Buckeye.

4. Since she didn't fill up in Buckeye, she must have used the extra tanks -- but since she couldn't make it all the way to Mesquite with 2 extra cans, she had to have had 3 extra gas cans.

5. Unless she went somewhere else after Sparks, NV, she should have ended her trip with 2 full 5-gallon gas cans.

1092



Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[hindsight2020]

I'm worried about this jury. Have to say it. How long are they going to keep asking questions? Until they get the consistent, logical answers they need in order to acquit her? Haven't they figured out at this point that she will never tell the truth?

And back to that infamous "camera" question, what a stupid question! The juror knew her story didn't make much sense so she or he asks Jodi for more information to make sense of it. But even if Jodi agreed that he could have picked up the camera, that DELAY would have given her ample time to bolt out the bedroom door -- making her story implausible both ways. I pray that juror is cut. :furious:

My mouth was wide open at several of their questions as well, but if there is any consolation, jurors had some good questions. Like rose222 said, it may be a trick question, but who knows what this jury is thinking.

I just wish she was off the stand already! She irks me as she continues to add lies to her answers, her posture (chin up, raised eyebrow), her lack of emotion in describing abuse and mortal fear is astounding, most importantly the pain Travis' family has to endure as she sits there nonchalantly telling a story, that breaks my heart to no end.

 

[Clue Finder 55]

I wonder if she wasn't holding him at gun/knifepoint, forcing him to "pose" for the camera or for her? Maybe camera was set on timer behind or next to her? He certainly doesn't look like he feels very sexy.

I think if a man had a small cal gun like a 25 cal or a knife pointed at him and he has seen it already he is not going to sit in the shower.
He would probably attempt to disarm the women not sit in the shower and get in a more vunerable position.
A person can take a couple of shots from a tiny gun like this and easily survive unless your shot in the head like he was.
If you have your back to your assailant and the shower door opens and you turn around and are immediately stabbed and it's a deep wound from a large knife I think collapsing to the shower floor is likely to happen.

 

[kscornfed]

This has possibly already been answered, but I'm far behind in reading posts. Have the alternate jurors been allowed to ask questions?

Thanks!

they don't know who the alternates are. there will be a random drawing before the case goes to the jury is my understanding. so yes, at this point, all 18 are asking questions.

 

[ohreally]

JM amazes me. IMO he is loving all of the lies that Jodi is telling, even asking her questions leading her to seal her testimony into those lies. Now he will use evidence to prove so many of her lies to be lies. If my understanding of the process of questioning Jodi is correct Numbri will not get another chance to rehabilitate her (through her testimony) about this new information JM is bringing up.
I do have a question. If a juror has a question requarding the Utah/3 gas cans, will Numbri and JM each get a chance to further question her?

 

[MissJ]

JMO but I think TA would never have struck JA even if she held a gun and knife on him. He'd pray that she wouldn't hurt him. MOO

 

[Nali87]

This has possibly already been answered, but I'm far behind in reading posts. Have the alternate jurors been allowed to ask questions?

Thanks!

They haven't decided who is going to be the final 12 yet.
I think it' done randomly at the end.

 

[EGirl]

In what order did it appear in your bank statement? So if it appears right after the gas charges on the 6th on hers, do you think the airline ticket purchase occurred on or around the same date? I would think it did.
What if the purchase was on the 6th and it was part of building her alibi? Recall her emailing about going to Mesa when Travis would be in Cancun and staying at his house in his bed. Maybe she bought a ticket there for those dates to make it look like she was really planning to do that, to further prove her innocence.

I actually don't know because it is an e copy. I don't know the order in the day when I did certain things vs making the reservation. It was just the same day.

But, didn't she buy tires after she got back to Yreka> They are showing up before the ticket.

 

[Harmony 2]

New thread is open... this one will close in five minutes...

Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #80 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[hindsight2020]

Re the third gas can in SLC: I wouldn't be surprised if JA tries to alibi her way out of it by saying she 'accidentally' knocked one of the gas cans over while trying to put the cap on it, and had to refill it.

I would not be surprise at all, she spins everything!

I can't wait to see how the DT will respond to this, it has to be addressed, as JA was adamant on her answer to the jurors, she emphatically stated she had only 2 cans.

 

[Nali87]

JM amazes me. IMO he is loving all of the lies that Jodi is telling, even asking her questions leading her to seal her testimony into those lies. Now he will use evidence to prove so many of her lies to be lies. If my understanding of the process of questioning Jodi is correct Numbri will not get another chance to rehabilitate her (through her testimony) about this new information JM is bringing up.
I do have a question. If a juror has a question requarding the Utah/3 gas cans, will Numbri and JM each get a chance to further question her?

I asked this in the legal thread and the answer was basically that we can have a repeat of all this. It's up to the judge to decide.
We already know there are a bunch of new jury questions so I think we'll be seeing Jodi on the stand again.

 

[sayd]

I'm worried about this jury. Have to say it. How long are they going to keep asking questions? Until they get the consistent, logical answers they need in order to acquit her? Haven't they figured out at this point that she will never tell the truth?

And back to that infamous "camera" question, what a stupid question! The juror knew her story didn't make much sense so she or he asks Jodi for more information to make sense of it. But even if Jodi agreed that he could have picked up the camera, that DELAY would have given her ample time to bolt out the bedroom door -- making her story implausible both ways. I pray that juror is cut. :furious:

I didn't think it was a stupid question at all. I actually wondered if Travis in his last moments managed to snap a picture. Not saying it happened, but I think that particular juror was wondering the same thing.

As for the shower picture, it seems like the obvious is missing. No one ever sits in the shower! I think he was sitting in it because he was already stabbed.

 

[DebinGA]

Agree. Juan comes out of an interesting bag, too. I see two aspects that may make him so argumentative:

1. Napoleon Complex. I see this aggressiveness often in my work world. The shortest people often act the toughest and talk the loudest. My boyfriend has some of this, which he admits stems from insecurity about his height. Many feel they were bullied as children, so they become very "Joe Pesci" in adulthood.

2. Cultural insecurity. It's fairly common for non-whites to feel the need to be fiercer, smarter, etc. in a white working environment. Some have concerns about people assuming you don't know your stuff. Jodi comes off very 'Smarter Than Thou', so I'm sure she's pouncing on this particular nerve of Juan's.

I don't see either of those in JM now or likely ever. I bet his main struggle has been to avoid arrogance because he's always been the smartest person in the room. As for being a short guy, I bet he found very early on that wicked smart + take-no-prisoners confidence = babe magnet.

 

[MissJ]

JMO but I have another theory about JA obsessive "love". If TA was dead and was never with another woman after her....he would be her's forever..like the celestial marriage she wanted. No rotten tomatoes please. I worked with the criminally insane and they have some strange reasons for doing things. MOO

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

It doesn't have to be. These are just two possible triggers.

Neither of us know Juan personally, so I could be right or could be wrong.

Just sharing what I know to be true about some people I personally know.

Are you short or a racial minority? I am, so know a bit about it.Sorry if my comment offends you personally.

Ha...sitting here wildly shaking my hand in the air....LOL Hope this doesn't come out the wrong way, but, luckily I don't have a face that stops trains, or I'd be SOL....LOL

As far as the "complexes", etc. From what people who've met JM in court say, he seems like a pretty subdued guy.
Just this past week, on ID channel, there was a show on Deadly Women, or whatever, and it had a story about the woman he put on death row for killing her husband. He was inserted to talk about it, and he was just laid back, and how he spoke about it wasn't with hate or disgust. It appeared to me that it was just his job, he did it, done.

Don't those type of complexes carry over into the "private" life, as well? I'm in no way experienced in any area of the psych field....so...just IMO.

Just a quick example...above I mentioned my "stats", from what "I" can say, and IMO, seems like JM has similar stats, as well.
Now, I learned pretty early on that there's a "work" persona and a "play" persona...I know....duh!!
I'm in a pretty competitive, cut throat field. I NEED to behave in a particular way in order to be taken seriously. Being somewhat meek...or what I call..."acting my height"....is NOT an option. I can recite chemical reactions and formula's all day and night, BUT, if I don't put forth a somewhat "authoritative" behavior, it's worth poop AND, I just might get a pat on the head....or have someone try to balance their drink on my head, like in clubs...LOL

So, maybe it IS a "complex" Napoleonic, or minority, as you mentioned, BUT, by the SAME merit, it's almost a necessity.
Also, maybe Nurmi, the lumbering bear, makes JM's behavior even MORE evident? Honestly, JA's on trial for slaughtering a man, if BOTH lawyers spoke in dulcet tones, we'd have no use for Sominex...LOL

So, I go to work, in business attire and work in my lab and direct a technician, and go to meetings, go to customers and do presentations and converse with other peers the same way....I'm not a b*tch, I just have to get done what needs to get done....that's what I get paid to do.
When I get into my car, sometimes at 7 or 8 pm, I blast my 70's music and sing "Brandy", probably off key....and take my bra and nylons off....whewwww! Now THAT'S how you spell R-E-L-I-E-F....LOL

I don't know if I'm outta line with this post and I am by no means trying to be disagreeable or snarky. Just sometimes, it's your job, you get done what you need to get done and what you're paid to do...and, if THAT'S what you need to do, so be it.

Just to add, I, TOO, was wondering about JM's being taken seriously, or if people, or HE, make excuses for his style. Honestly, he commands that room. He's kickin' JA's azz and he's takin names. You can just tell he's behaving like he NEEDS to...professionally, no nonsense, no kid gloves for this murderer trying to portray herself as a "victim".

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I'm worried about this jury. Have to say it. How long are they going to keep asking questions? Until they get the consistent, logical answers they need in order to acquit her? Haven't they figured out at this point that she will never tell the truth?

And back to that infamous "camera" question, what a stupid question! The juror knew her story didn't make much sense so she or he asks Jodi for more information to make sense of it. But even if Jodi agreed that he could have picked up the camera, that DELAY would have given her ample time to bolt out the bedroom door -- making her story implausible both ways. I pray that juror is cut. :furious:

:seeya: Good Morning,

BBM: I totally agree ! They will NEVER get a "logical" answer from her because her story is BS = LIES ...

RBBM: If the jurors have NOT figured this out yet, they never will ...

Good Grief ... Mr. Martinez has pointed out inconsistency and inconsistency, lie after lie, in just about every one of Jodi's "answers" ...

Mr. Martinez has clearly PROVEN his case : pre-meditated murder ... NOT this ridiculous "story" of abuse ...

Mr. Martinez has done a fantastic job :great: ...

You would think the jurors are ready to decide this case and go home -- not ask more questions -- which they will NEVER EVER get the TRUTH from Jodi ...

I can understand that the jurors want to be 100% certain that this was pre-meditated murder -- and I understand that they want to give JA every opportunity to tell the truth -- but it ain't gonna happen !

I get that the jury has more "latitude" with questions for Jodi than Mr. Martinez because Mr. M has to follow the law -- the rules ... and I get that the jury wants answers ... but again, they will NEVER EVER get the TRUTH from Jodi ...

:waitasec: To borrow a quote from a Judge from another case : Jodi and the TRUTH are STRANGERS !

:great: I say it's time to get this show on the road !

:moo:

 

[KandyKane]

she must have realized she took the photos of the crime. are these the photos she thought were deleted? i can see her wanting others to see the sex ones. that would explainj why she put the camera in the washer. i hope i'm making sense

I think she used the idea of getting Travis where she wanted him with the camera in order to kill him mostly because a camera was her thing... she had some odd desire to photograph everything and particularly their relationship especially because their relationship was continuing in secret, and I absolutely believe that this really pissed her off knowing that it was secret because Travis didn't find her to be acceptable.

Yet, though Jodi seems to believe she's of superior intellect, she did a LOT of really stupid things - the idea of taking the photos being one of them. Her plan was to say she was never at his house or even in Arizona at the time, yet the photographs prove it. She knows cameras and knows that photos are date stamped and likely also knows that deleting them doesn't REALLY delete them. I believe her overriding desire to take photos and use the camera either before she killed him or even DURING his killing kept her from realizing that it was also proof that she was indeed there and the one that committed the act. I think that she didn't realize the implication of her having used the camera until after the fact and had an "oh *****" moment. She deleted them, yet she knew that deleting them didn't REALLY delete them, so she suddenly got the idea of throwing the camera into the wash thinking that it would be destroyed enough that no photos could be removed from it and thus hide the fact that she was there and the one that killed him.

I also believe that her idea was to kill him in the shower so that there would be no blood evidence thinking that the shower would wash blood down the drain so there would be no evidence of HER being there and HER being the one that killed him. But things didn't work out that way, and he didn't die there and trailed blood all through the place. I think at this point she panicked having believed that she could get in and out of there rather quickly without leaving evidence behind imagining that she would kill him in the shower and all the blood evidence would be washed down the drain. I believe this is why she did such a terrible job of cleaning up the scene and bolted leaving the camera behind in the wash and blood all over the place. I also think her dragging him back into the shower was her panicked attempt to FORCE what occurred to go back to her plan and thus regain control. After all, there's no logical reason to drag him back to the shower since all the other blood evidence shows that he never stayed in the shower the whole time... it was far too late to correct the plan and it wasn't logical to go through all the trouble of dragging him back to the bathroom and stuffing him back in the shower.

After all that and her ridiculous initial attempt to clean up the blood she likely then realized it was hopeless, she was taking too long, and bolted leaving all that evidence behind. She would have believed that putting the camera in the wash would destroy the images she took, but panicked and left it in the wash instead of bringing it with her to destroy with all the other stuff she had to destroy which in hindsight she would have known the cameras presence in the washer would be seen as significant. She prepared what she believed was a plausible lie about that and continue to stick to the rest of her story until she found out that the photos weren't destroyed in the washer after all. She then knew it was known she was there and there at the time Travis was killed, so she had to come up with a new story. Once again, she thought that her acting skills would carry her through, and her new story would be believed without question. And she still stuck with this story for years until the evidence couldn't conceal it anymore, and she had to change her story once again. But this also meant that somehow she still had to explain all the other evidence that pointed to her original premeditated plan. And that's what she's still attempting to do. But she's made so many mistakes and told so many very public lies that she has to twist herself into a pretzel trying to come up with plausable explanations for them all.

She also believes that whatever lie she comes up with will be enough and that LE and the prosecutor won't dig for the real info, thus making her either unconcerned with or unable to realize that stores, the bank, etc. would have their own records of what the truth is and that they would be ferreted out. She has been very good at coming up with lies on the fly, but that last cross with the information concerning the gas receipts and her bank statement along with Walmart's lack of records for her supposed return of the 3rd gas can caught her flatfooted... she had no time to come up with plausible expainations for all of that information on the fly, and she realized that she JUST lied about those gas cans again. You could see in her face that she knew she was caught and could come up with absolutely nothing as an explaination. She didn't even try to explain away the 5 gallons of gas she purchased for that 3rd gas station as $20 worth of snacks and drinks in the store since she knew the store was closed at that time, and that JM also knew that, too. So she had nothing and utterly deflated.

I have no doubt that during the days of recess she'll come up with another plausable lie to cover that bombshell (what SHE thinks is plausible), but what could she possibly say? I have no doubt though that she'll come up with something no matter how ridiculous and unbelievable because she is so desparate to regain control - just like her desperation to regain control when she so illogically dragged Travis back to the bathroom and shoved him in the shower again. Unfortunately for her, whatever lunacy she comes up with to attempt to explain this one away is only going to make her look even more guilty and more the liar. Personally, I can't wait! :great: